Deep Water Port Nome AK?

AlaskaProf said:

We have a winner!



See my list of Alaska "projects" above--not a single one with an economic rationale. The ultimate was "The Bridge to Nowhere" which terminated on an uninhibited island belonging to the Governor's wife. (mother of the current Senior Senator.0

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Huh? The 'Bridge to Nowere" was K-Town bridge to the airport and Gravina Island which has a population.

Please get your facts straight.

Alaskan Sea-Duction said:

Huh? The 'Bridge to Nowere" was K-Town bridge to the airport and Gravina Island which has a population.

Please get your facts straight.

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I thought it was Cordova? No?

twistedtree said:

I thought it was Cordova? No?

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No. It was to Gravina, population 50, where the Murkowski own large areas of undeveloped land. The "justification" was to serve the airport, but the projected cost/benefit never passed the laugh test.

The Cordova project was to develop the old railroad bed to Chitna (miles of which no longer existed)along the Copper River Gorge and the collapsed "Million Dollar" (1908 dollars!) railroad bridge.

AlaskaProf said:

No. It was to Gravina, population 50, where the Murkowski own large areas of undeveloped land. The "justification" was to serve the airport, but the projected cost/benefit never passed the laugh test.

The Cordova project was to develop the old railroad bed (miles of which no longer existed)along the Copper River Gorge and the collapsed Million Dollar railroad bridge.

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Yet Juneau and Sitka has bridges to their islands.

All right my fellow former and current Alaskans:

First, I always thought the greatest boondoggle bridge was from Pt. MacKenzie to Anchorage. Settler's Bay development off Knik Road in Wasilla poured millions into the lodge and golf course and housing and landing strip and I almost bought land there in anticipation of the stampede -- but of course the bridge was never built. Somebody took a huge bath, although I hear the golf course is very nice now. Lost a million balls in those woods. Drove the Glenn Highway every morning for about 10 years and I assume the daily commute stampede continues because of course they never built the bridge.

Second, I had to refresh my memory. AlaskaProf is right, at one point Wally Hickel did talk about towing icebergs to California (well, tankers actually), but as I recalled the main idea was an undersea freshwater pipeline. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propo...t=The former governor of Alaska,"too far-out".

And then third, before anybody casts aspersions on Nome with 2,000 people and modest dwellings and kind of gritty development -- Skagway shows 1,000 people and before COVID anyway that was a huge cruise destination where disgorged passengers exceeded the population (t-shirts!). Now of course looking at the charts you have about 100' of water within a (good) baseball throw of the ferry terminal in Skagway, and the approach is a heck of a lot more beautiful to Mortie and Flo from Bayonne on their Alaska retirement cruise than Nome would be, but I suppose you could always tender the passengers from the Carnival Hotel-Barge of the Seas. At least we have a Johnny Horton song that mentions Nome.

Alaskan Sea-Duction said:

Yet Juneau and Sitka has bridges to their islands.

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yes.

kthoennes said:

At least we have a Johnny Horton song that mentions Nome.

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Yes, and that other one: "No place like Nome for the holidays..."



Not to mention, they could visit the birthplace of Jimmy Dolittle! ...and the location where there once was a saloon which might have belonged to Wyatt Earp.

TT

It was actually two bridges, one from south of Ketchikan to Pennock Is, and a second from Pennock Is to Gravina Is about a mile or so south of the airport. What drove the price up was providing clearance for state ferries and cruise ships, 200 ft on the east side for cruise ships. That made the whole thing impractical. They should have settled for some new ferries.

Tom

kthoennes said:

All right my fellow former and current Alaskans:

First, I always thought the greatest boondoggle bridge was from Pt. MacKenzie to Anchorage. .

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Yeah, the best part of that scam was that the eastern approach to the bridge would obliterate one of Anchorage's most attractive neighborhoods to ease the commute time for the residents of Wasilla. ...there's a thesis topic for some PADM grad student.

My wife offered the best comment on the deep water port at Nome. It will be crumbling and need to be rebuilt before we need it. Why not build something we need now?

AlaskaProf said:

No. It was to Gravina, population 50, where the Murkowski own large areas of undeveloped land. The "justification" was to serve the airport, but the projected cost/benefit never passed the laugh test.

The Cordova project was to develop the old railroad bed to Chitna (miles of which no longer existed)along the Copper River Gorge and the collapsed "Million Dollar" (1908 dollars!) railroad bridge.

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Thanks.

The Cordova project was to develop the old railroad bed to Chitna (miles of which no longer existed)along the Copper River Gorge and the collapsed "Million Dollar" (1908 dollars!) railroad bridge.

twistedtree said:

Thanks.

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The Cordova Highway was pretty much another real estate scam. Much of the populace of the actually charming little burg were strongly opposed. The proponents were mostly people who owned undeveloped land or bulldozers.


The CR&NW railroad along the incredibly precipitous canyon used to wash out every winter, but the stupefying revenues (think Guggenheim and JP Morgan) from the Kennecott mining complex justified the annual ...actually, constant, rebuild.

So the really funny thing!! Alaska got all the money for the Ketchikan bridge from Congress. They just didn't ear mark the funds for the bridge. Then the State Legislators took that money and spent it on other things instead of the bridge.

Alaskan Sea-Duction said:

So the really funny thing!! Alaska got all the money for the Ketchikan bridge from Congress. They just didn't ear mark the funds for the bridge. Then the State Legislators took that money and spent it on other things instead of the bridge.

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Hmmm. Don't want to say it didn't happen. One can seldom go wrong counting on the turpitude of the Alaska Legislature, but having been a project manager for both the federal govt. and the State of Alaska, I've never seen it work quite like that. The process, which can certainly leak money, doesn't lend itself to outright theft. Got a source?

Nome is an interesting place. We dragged big barges full of freight there from Seattle in the mid to late 80's. We would anchor up in "deep water", then crane the stuff off onto smaller barges to go ashore.

AlaskaProf said:

We have a winner!



See my list of Alaska "projects" above--not a single one with an economic rationale. The ultimate was "The Bridge to Nowhere" which terminated on an uninhibited island belonging to the Governor's wife. (mother of the current Senior Senator.)

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That's our govt in action! Don't forget that our representatives are the people we put there.

The rail road grade, now a comfortable driving road, from Chitna to the San Elias Wrangell NP is a fascinating trip and provides a great look at AK history. AK's history starting with Seward's Folly is rife with what some view as government and corporate financial shenanigans and by others as sound development strategies.

A peek into the current Infrastructure Bill finds tens of billions flowing into suspect projects throughout the US. My view is that it puts money into the hands of the skilled workers who engineer, dig, build, repair and ultimately pay huge payroll and sales taxes for a wide variety of projects. These activities can be viewed similarly to the CCC days of nearly a century ago but on a grander scale.

For those who've traveled in and followed the mammoth infrastructure construction projects in China, the overall societal benefits to the populace are arguably enormous. In AK, it is likely far better that government monies go into defined infrastructure projects than given Willy Nilly to the State to disappear down the rabbit hole ASD mentioned.

And yes TP, there will likely be some gold recovered, similar to the sand and gravel plants operating around Sacramento CA.

China and the CCC days, of the US, have the same advantage, no unions.
Plus, peoples dont have the same desire to take a job that will keep families separated for extended periods of time.

OldDan1943 said:

peoples dont have the same desire to take a job that will keep families separated for extended periods of time.

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The far North construction and operating projects have some very workable and financially attractive fly in fly out scenarios that have been in place for a very long time. But, skills required.

AlaskaProf said:

Hmmm. Don't want to say it didn't happen. One can seldom go wrong counting on the turpitude of the Alaska Legislature, but having been a project manager for both the federal govt. and the State of Alaska, I've never seen it work quite like that. The process, which can certainly leak money, doesn't lend itself to outright theft. Got a source?

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Not right at hand. I was a union lobbyists during this time and I remember talking to Don Young about it.

backinblue said:

That's our govt in action! Don't forget that our representatives are the people we put there.

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Sigh. How trite. The Murkowski’s known and suspected corruption aside, these projects are not generally dreamed up and boosted by “government.”

All eyes look to the arctic as it warms. Extraction, tourism, nationalist competition, and the marine infrastructure necessary to support it.

sunchaser said:

The rail road grade, now a comfortable driving road, from Chitna to the San Elias Wrangell NP is a fascinating trip and provides a great look at AK history.

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That, of course, is the segment above Chitna, to McCarthy/Kennecott a quantum difference in grade and vulnerability compared with the now-dead Cordova link.

Been there many times, though I've never driven it.

AlaskaProf said:

That, of course, is the segment above Chitna, to McCarthy/Kennecott a quantum difference in grade and vulnerability compared with the now-dead Cordova link.

Been there many times, though I've never driven it.

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As best I recall the original rail link to the port was all privately funded over a century ago, and as you mention subject to Mother Nature's whims. The group that built it in record time did the Yukon White Pass a decade before. Those guys were marvelous constructors.

The rail link and mine itself were the start of Kennecott Copper, creating 100,000s of jobs worldwide over the past 100+ years.