Rules of the Road Ruling Needed

Answering all your questions; Never take rules of the road direction from a bridge tender. At the mere 75 yards from the bridge when it began to open in that size vessel with a current astern, you did NOTHING wrong. Channel 9? nmmmph.

By the bye, as far as my memory serves me, the only place in the INLAND Rules of the Road where current and "right of way" are mentioned is upon the Western Rivers. In NO place along the saltwater routes of the US is current officially recognized as an enabling mechanism for those with it astern to claim any preference.

Rule for C&D canal.

(c) Right-of-way. All vessels proceeding with the current shall have the right-of-way over those proceeding against the current. Large vessels or tows must not overtake and attempt to pass other large vessels or tows in the waterway. All small pleasure craft shall relinquish the right-of-way to deeper draft vessels, which have a limited maneuvering ability due to their draft and size.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/33/162.40

There are all kinds of local rules all over the place... unfortunately researching them all sometimes is so difficult, hit or miss is the only way I come across them.

psneeld said:

Rule for C&D canal.

(c) Right-of-way. All vessels proceeding with the current shall have the right-of-way over those proceeding against the current. Large vessels or tows must not overtake and attempt to pass other large vessels or tows in the waterway. All small pleasure craft shall relinquish the right-of-way to deeper draft vessels, which have a limited maneuvering ability due to their draft and size.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/33/162.40

There are all kinds of local rules all over the place... unfortunately researching them all sometimes is so difficult, hit or miss is the only way I come across them.

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Excellent point. Thanks. I still think this bridge tender was full of it.

PAllen529 said:

When I'm about 75 yds south of the bridge, heading north, it begins to open, presumably for the sailboat. However the sailboat does not begin to turn south and remains facing west until the bridge is fully opened.

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It should not matter what the sailboat was doing.

1) The sailboat called for the bridge opening.

2) The bridge was effectively open upon your arrival

3) You did not signal for the bridge opening prior to passage.

The purpose of the signal is to notify the bridge tender of your intention to pass. He might have a larger vessel or one constrained on the other side. He is effectively the 'traffic cop' at the intersection.


Title 33 - Navigation and Navigable Waters
Volume: 1
Date: 2018-07-01
Original Date: 2018-07-01
Title: PART 117 - DRAWBRIDGE OPERATION REGULATIONS
Context: Title 33 - Navigation and Navigable Waters. CHAPTER I - COAST GUARD, DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY. SUBCHAPTER J - BRIDGES.

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CFR-2018-title33-vol1/xml/CFR-2018-title33-vol1-part117.xml

§ 117.21Signalling for an opened drawbridge.
When a vessel approaches a drawbridge with the draw in the open position, the vessel shall give the opening signal. If no acknowledgment is received within 30 seconds, the vessel may proceed, with caution, through the open draw.

Not sure that is for vessels passing that DO NOT require the opening, but I agree it is not clear.

It also doesnt really give the tender authority...yet they are empowered to give 5 short blasts to signify danger.

“§ 117.21Signalling for an opened drawbridge.
When a vessel approaches a drawbridge with the draw in the open position, the vessel shall give the opening signal. If no acknowledgment is received within 30 seconds, the vessel may proceed, with caution, through the open draw”

That looks like some cherry picking. Reading from 117.15 et seq. seems clearer to me that the intent is to address boats that require the bridge to be open, not all boats at any time, all the time.

E.g. “(a) General. (1) The operator of each vessel requesting a drawbridge to open shall signal the drawtender and the drawtender shall acknowledge that signal. The signal shall be repeated until acknowledged in some manner by the drawtender before proceeding.”

I think the purpose of 117.21 is for boats that need the bridge to remain open when it is presently open must signal so they can be alerted if it is imminently coming down. A long and short blast isn’t asking for permission to pass under the bridge, it’s requesting that the bridge open.

Hello all,

Thank you for all of the replies. I really didn't think there would be that much interest in my situation. I consideer myself a pretty seasoned ocean-going mariner but your combined knowledge and experience dwarfs mine. I spoke with Mr. Randall Overton, Commander of the 7th District, Miami, and Bridge Management expert. I also read through the USCG Radio Information for Boaters. This is what Ive learned from them about the techincalities and I'll also explain what I've learned from your experience regarding prudent marine operations.

1) Am I required to monitor Ch 9? The answer is no. FCC regulations require boaters having a VHF radio to maintain a watch on either channel 9 or 16 but since the CG does not have the capability to transmit urgent marine information broadcasts or weather information over Ch 9, use of Ch 9 is optional. They recomment boaters monitor Ch 16 unless otherwise notified by the Coast Guard.

2) Does the vessel that has been granted an opening receive special priviledge for passage? The answer is no. Normal Rules of the Road regarding passing and overtaking apply and the bridgetender has no play in this. He does not direct traffic, he merely opens the bridge and the coordination of vessel operation is done between the vessels themselves. However, Commander Overton stated that the bridge wants to remain open for as short a period of time so if my passage delays the other vessel and causes the bridge to remain open longer, while not illegal, it is certainly bad form and unneccesary. This would have been easier if I'd have been monitoring Ch 9. However, if I did not impede the other boat then there was no issue.

3) Lastly to the matter of wake, I did not receive an official answer as this is a subjective matter but it seems the group concensus is that I need to operate as slowly as I can while still maintaining enough headway to control my vessel. This is what I had done.

But beyond that the lessons I've learned from you are:

1) I could have avoided most of this had I been monitoring Ch 9. This seems a simple request and prudent operating technique. In the future I will scan 16 and 9 anytime I am operating within sight of a bridge. I will also attempt to contact any other vessel who may be on the other side to coordinate our passing. 2) I will take what a bridgetender tells me with a grain of salt. They are not the "traffic cop" but merely the bridge raiser. However, coordinating with them on Ch 9 when in doubt will provide for a much smooter day for all of us and just might eliminate a bad day for one of us. And lastly, while my minimal wake might be nothing for a 14' open fish, and might only cause a paddleboarder to take a knee, it may cause significant rocking for a sailboat who needs to keep his mast out of the bridge components or another passing vessel. I don't believe my wake caused any issue here but I will be more observant of that in the future.

Thank you all for your input and advice. I've learned a lot in this and perhaps someone else has as well.

Sincerely,

Peter

PAllen529 said:

1) I could have avoided most of this had I been monitoring Ch 9. This seems a simple request and prudent operating technique. In the future I will scan 16 and 9 anytime I am operating within sight of a bridge.

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Won't always be 9 so need to use a guide to know what channels bridges and locks and others are using.

That's correct. In Florida all bridges monitor Ch 9, the Locks mostly are on 13. But you are correct, in other parts of the country things are different and a guide would be very beneficial. I've found that at least in South Florida the Bridges all have signs stating their channel and usually phone number as well.

Porgy said:

“§ 117.21Signalling for an opened drawbridge.
When a vessel approaches a drawbridge with the draw in the open position, the vessel shall give the opening signal. If no acknowledgment is received within 30 seconds, the vessel may proceed, with caution, through the open draw”

That looks like some cherry picking. Reading from 117.15 et seq. seems clearer to me that the intent is to address boats that require the bridge to be open, not all boats at any time, all the time.

E.g. “(a) General. (1) The operator of each vessel requesting a drawbridge to open shall signal the drawtender and the drawtender shall acknowledge that signal. The signal shall be repeated until acknowledged in some manner by the drawtender before proceeding.”

I think the purpose of 117.21 is for boats that need the bridge to remain open when it is presently open must signal so they can be alerted if it is imminently coming down. A long and short blast isn’t asking for permission to pass under the bridge, it’s requesting that the bridge open.

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Whether a vessel needed or intended to request the bridge be open would not be clear to the bridge tender.

I suspect there might be some misinterpretation on both parties. (Caution, Speculation Approaching): One could assume that if most boats notify him of their passing when the bridge is open, he could come to expect that all boats notify him regardless of whether they need the bridge up or not. Or could be under the impression that he should be notified for all passages.

It is true that to assure permitted passage of an opened drawbridge every vessel wishing so us required to ask for the opening whether before or during the opening.

The point of contention might be whether a vessel not requiring the opening need to contact the bridge or anyone else for that matter if the process has started.

Every day thousands of vessels even without radios pass under bridges without contact even in the opening or open situation. No big stink there. But when a 50+ footer does it with traffic requiring the opening, there is no clear rule or obligation dictating that situation.

When I am in that situation, I always call the bridge and tell them I am NOT requesting an opening.

Sheeesh...what is it about a rules of the road issue that brings nearly every-bardy out of the woodwork. Ok, now I'm here - here's my take on it - from the other side of the world. Basically he (the OP) did nothing wrong, just happened to strike a rather officious bridge-tender is all...

Peter B said:

Sheeesh...what is it about a rules of the road issue that brings nearly every-bardy out of the woodwork. Ok, now I'm here - here's my take on it - from the other side of the world. Basically he (the OP) did nothing wrong, just happened to strike a rather officious bridge-tender is all...

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There's an echo from down there! Amen, brother you are correct!

However, I do enjoy the RR discussions because it is SOOO important in our crowded waterways to constantly reinforce knowledge as in which I, who used to teach RR to young Navy officers, got it a bit wrong when I said there are no places in the USA saltwater where preference is official for the down-bound boat in a current. There are indeed a couple of teeny tiny places where in is so, but Navy ships don't go there...

Cape Cod Canal seems to be another....probably many narrow waterways with a lot of current might have local regulations too.

"Right-of-Way: All vessels proceeding with the current shall have the right-of-way over those proceeding against the current. All craft up to 65 feet in length shall be operated so as not to interfere with the navigation of vessels of greater length."

psneeld said:

Cape Cod Canal seems to be another....probably many narrow waterways with a lot of current might have local regulations too.

"Right-of-Way: All vessels proceeding with the current shall have the right-of-way over those proceeding against the current. All craft up to 65 feet in length shall be operated so as not to interfere with the navigation of vessels of greater length."

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Thought loopers and Downeast loopers may be intetested.

Yup, yup. Spread the word.

A sailboat under power is a power boat.
With the current behind you, you have the right of way all other things being equal.
They have some ill informed tenders in FL.

Brooksie said:

A sailboat under power is a power boat.
With the current behind you, you have the right of way all other things being equal.
They have some ill informed tenders in FL.

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Following current is only a courtesy for who has preference.... and in my experience...many times it is misinterpreted by boaters.

The only place right of way for following current is where it is specified.

Other than smaller specific waters, the USA inland rules provide for it in the Western Rivers and Great Lakes.

so be careful out there and communicate, otherwise you are just assuming more than necessary.

Wifey B:

It's still simple. Find channel bridge tender, lock master or canal is on and communicate with them. Do what they say.

If they say "Green boat with yellow roof goes first" then so be it. Even as absurd as that sounds, they may know something you don't. I once heard a situation where they let one boat go and made everyone else wait until they cleared to the anger of boaters and cars. Now we'd happened to have heard the earlier talk. The boat they gave special clearance to had lost steering and was using just throttle of twins and thrusters.

We get hung up on rules when it's really just communication, common courtesy, and then rules. Bridge tender channels well published in most areas. Biggest frustration to tenders is people not on channel and not communicating. I'll tell you to that a quick but friendly voice in advance does wonders. They're trying to juggle a lot of boats and cars and schedules. Some are still grouchy, but just live with it and move on. I called one once who was being exceptionally rude to everyone and wasn't like him and asked him what was wrong. His wife was in the hospital and he was still waiting for someone to come relieve him.

One thing I've noticed too is some treat every boater like it's their first time and like they don't know what they're doing. Well, unless you communicate with them, they don't know any better and they sure do get some boaters from the twilight zone who you wonder how they got that far.

Twins AND thruster.... Who needs steering??????????

BandB said:

Wifey B:

It's still simple. Find channel bridge tender, lock master or canal is on and communicate with them. Do what they say.

If they say "Green boat with yellow roof goes first" then so be it. Even as absurd as that sounds, they may know something you don't. I once heard a situation where they let one boat go and made everyone else wait until they cleared to the anger of boaters and cars. Now we'd happened to have heard the earlier talk. The boat they gave special clearance to had lost steering and was using just throttle of twins and thrusters.

We get hung up on rules when it's really just communication, common courtesy, and then rules. Bridge tender channels well published in most areas. Biggest frustration to tenders is people not on channel and not communicating. I'll tell you to that a quick but friendly voice in advance does wonders. They're trying to juggle a lot of boats and cars and schedules. Some are still grouchy, but just live with it and move on. I called one once who was being exceptionally rude to everyone and wasn't like him and asked him what was wrong. His wife was in the hospital and he was still waiting for someone to come relieve him.

One thing I've noticed too is some treat every boater like it's their first time and like they don't know what they're doing. Well, unless you communicate with them, they don't know any better and they sure do get some boaters from the twilight zone who you wonder how they got that far.

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Wifey B,


Well, maybe.


First a bridge tender is a low paid servant to just open the bridge, they are NOT trained to direct traffic, but they do. I'll NOT do what they say if it contradicts what I feel is prudent and safe... and I'll tell them that.


If one is having a bad day, they should be removed.... it's NOT their job to take out their daily frustrations on boaters... very inappropriate.



And if the Green boat with yellow roof needs to go first, JUST LET THE REST KNOW... but do not just direct traffic. Heck the green boat could just tell the rest of the boaters, and I'm sure they would yield to them with the restriction.



And, if one is new, they should state that, but after a few bridges, everyone is reasonably experienced. Not horribly difficult.

BandB said:

...

If they say "Green boat with yellow roof goes first" then so be it. ...

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That's me!

Seevee said:

Wifey B,


Well, maybe.


First a bridge tender is a low paid servant to just open the bridge, they are NOT trained to direct traffic, but they do. I'll NOT do what they say if it contradicts what I feel is prudent and safe... and I'll tell them that.


If one is having a bad day, they should be removed.... it's NOT their job to take out their daily frustrations on boaters... very inappropriate.



And if the Green boat with yellow roof needs to go first, JUST LET THE REST KNOW... but do not just direct traffic. Heck the green boat could just tell the rest of the boaters, and I'm sure they would yield to them with the restriction.



And, if one is new, they should state that, but after a few bridges, everyone is reasonably experienced. Not horribly difficult.

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Wifey B: Low paid servant? Where do you get off saying something so condescending about a person doing their job? Just to open the bridge?

And they are paid to manage traffic, two sets of it. They do have authority to let boats pass and to stop boats.

From a job description: A bridge tender is in charge of bridge operation and safety. Their duties are to observe the waterway or roadway or railway to see approaching traffic, communicate with boat and train captains and auto drivers to coordinate passage, and open the bridge for a boat or vehicle to pass. A bridge tender may also be responsible for routine maintenance and inspection of the bridge equipment.

I respect the bridge tenders and what they have to put up with. This entire thread wouldn't have been necessary if the OP had been listening and communicated on Channel 9, which is the channel for all of Florida and is also posted at the bridges. Was the tender perhaps rude? I don't know, but still I know he's in charge of the bridge and ultimately makes the decisions. I also have seen people try to fight with bridge tenders and have seen Fort Lauderdale Police show up at their boat very shortly thereafter. The bridges are under the control of the Florida Department of Transportation with schedules and guidelines codified Code of Federal Regulations.

Some of the less kind references to the Bridge Keeper remind me of Captain Mainwaring(pron Mannering), the local Bank Manager,in a TV series "Dad`s Army",about a English WW2 "Home Guard" platoon of bumbling volunteers too old to enlist. (Our "Marine Rescue" voluntary "coastguard" service is sometimes unkindly called "Dad`s Navy" for it`s dedicated but similar personnel.) Probably too English, and too boring, but perhaps worth a look in an idle moment. https://dadsarmy.fandom.com/wiki/Captain_George_Mainwaring
Edit: And for Wifey B and anyone else offended on behalf of the Bridge Tender, or the Bridge Tender himself, no offence intended.

BandB said:

Wifey B: Low paid servant? Where do you get off saying something so condescending about a person doing their job? Just to open the bridge?

And they are paid to manage traffic, two sets of it. They do have authority to let boats pass and to stop boats.

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Wifey B,


Certainly no disrespect for anyone, but there's no reason not to call them what they are. They are public servants.... and they are low paid. I use to be a low paid public servant too, and guess what? That's what I was called. Nothing condescending about it, but sorry if it offended you.

As I said, I’ve looked for any regulation that gives authority to a tender to regulate movement of vessels other than if a bridge is up or down. Maybe not exhaustive but I can’t find anything. City regulations on bridges such as Ft. Lauderdale and I think St. Augustine that I’ve looked at reference Part 117 and only discuss opening schedules of bridges in their jurisdictions. At that, it doesn’t sound like a jurisdiction can do much beyond maybe holiday decorations without CG approval.

Boats less than 65 feet are not required to have radios so, the only minimum legally required method of communication between bridge and boat is via sound, lights (not the red and green on bridges) and quaintly, by raising and lowering flags.

The typical signals are a long and short by the boat requesting the bridge to open. The signal is not requesting permission to pass under or through the bridge, only that the bridge open. The bridge can only respond with a long/short that the bridge will open or five short that it will not. If the bridge is open and the boat needs it open it blows long/short. If the bridge is silent the boat may proceed. If the bridge responds with five, the boat may not.

That’s the sum total of legally required communications between a boat and a bridge. No signals for which boat goes first or what order or arranged by size and color or whether it is disabled or whether it does not need to open.

I’m no expert at bridges but I’ve done plenty in CT, VA, NC and earned my merit badge by doing all of the ICW bridges in FL, something I absolutely will never do again.

Correct on all counts.

PAllen529 said:

If this is too long just ignore... but I'd like some advice.

Let me describe the situation. South Florida, northbound on the ICW approaching a drawbridge with a 35' height and 90' width, big bridge. I'm operating a 52' MY and require 21' clearance so I don't need an opening. I'm in a slow zone with a mild current at my stern. I'm going only fast enough to maintain control of the boat, which is slightly above idle speed. I'm monitoring Ch 16 only. I see on the other side of the bridge a roughly 30' monohull sailboat with no sails and under power about 100 yds north of the bridge, facing west, which was into the wind and broadside to the bridge, but in a wide area. He was fine where he was. When I'm about 75 yds south of the bridge, heading north, it begins to open, presumably for the sailboat. However the sailboat does not begin to turn south and remains facing west until the bridge is fully opened. Seeing that, I continue north, hugging the right (east) side of the channel which would allow ample room for both of us to pass and as I am clearing the bridge he turns and begins south from about 100 yds away. We pass port to port about 75 yds north of the bridge and then the bridgetender hails me on 16 and tells me that this is a no wake zone, that I should be monitoring Ch 9 (the bridgetender channel in Florida) and that the sailboat has the right-of way. I reply that the sailboat had not even begun his approach when I passed under the bridge and that I had done nothing wrong. He advised that the USCG monitors this channel and that I could take it up with them. I followed this up with a phone call to the bridgetender when I was back in port. He maintained he was right, that I'm required to monitor Ch 9 when in the ICW and that once the sailboat received an opening they had the right-of-way.

So, my questions are:

1) Am I required to monitor Ch9 in the ICW in Florida. I understand that I hail the bridgetender on 9 but I did not need an opening.

2) I know that a sailboat under power is a powerboat but does a boat actually get special privilege because they have an opening? There was more than enough width for us to both pass safely under the bridge. I'm a good operator and in spite of having the current astern I was way over to my side, leaving more than 2/3 of the width for the sailboat.

3) Lastly, I was operating at the minimum speed required to maintain control of the boat, passing under a bridge. Regardless of the wake I left, which was minimal was I wrong? There were no marinas or docks near the bridge.

Thoughts? Opinions? Advice?

I want to be a good operator, and I believe I am. I received my 50 ton USCG License and ran Dive Charter boats here for about 5 years in the late 80's, early 90's and have had a boat in this area ever since. I'm not a novice but I'm beginning to wonder if I was in the right or in the wrong. I honestly wouldn't do anything differently, other than possibly monitoring Ch 9 when I approached the bridge, and that's a maybe.

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I am also a licensed master, unlimited with 35 years experience, you are right on all counts. You aren’t required to maintain watch on Ch. 9, 16 is for HAILING and distress. I do the same thing, hail them on 9, make an arrangement and switch make to 16. If the tender needed to speak with you he can hail you on 16 then switch to 9.

Definitely a power driven vessel if sails are up.

Maintaining sail steerage in adverse conditions definitely trumps any no wake zones unless life was in immediate peril such as workers/people along the shore.

If there is a local law or custom about lift requesting vessels having right of way, it should be published somewhere or signage, etc.

PAllen529 said:

If this is too long just ignore... but I'd like some advice.

Let me describe the situation. South Florida, northbound on the ICW approaching a drawbridge with a 35' height and 90' width, big bridge. I'm operating a 52' MY and require 21' clearance so I don't need an opening. I'm in a slow zone with a mild current at my stern. I'm going only fast enough to maintain control of the boat, which is slightly above idle speed. I'm monitoring Ch 16 only. I see on the other side of the bridge a roughly 30' monohull sailboat with no sails and under power about 100 yds north of the bridge, facing west, which was into the wind and broadside to the bridge, but in a wide area. He was fine where he was. When I'm about 75 yds south of the bridge, heading north, it begins to open, presumably for the sailboat. However the sailboat does not begin to turn south and remains facing west until the bridge is fully opened. Seeing that, I continue north, hugging the right (east) side of the channel which would allow ample room for both of us to pass and as I am clearing the bridge he turns and begins south from about 100 yds away. We pass port to port about 75 yds north of the bridge and then the bridgetender hails me on 16 and tells me that this is a no wake zone, that I should be monitoring Ch 9 (the bridgetender channel in Florida) and that the sailboat has the right-of way. I reply that the sailboat had not even begun his approach when I passed under the bridge and that I had done nothing wrong. He advised that the USCG monitors this channel and that I could take it up with them. I followed this up with a phone call to the bridgetender when I was back in port. He maintained he was right, that I'm required to monitor Ch 9 when in the ICW and that once the sailboat received an opening they had the right-of-way.

So, my questions are:

1) Am I required to monitor Ch9 in the ICW in Florida. I understand that I hail the bridgetender on 9 but I did not need an opening.

2) I know that a sailboat under power is a powerboat but does a boat actually get special privilege because they have an opening? There was more than enough width for us to both pass safely under the bridge. I'm a good operator and in spite of having the current astern I was way over to my side, leaving more than 2/3 of the width for the sailboat.

3) Lastly, I was operating at the minimum speed required to maintain control of the boat, passing under a bridge. Regardless of the wake I left, which was minimal was I wrong? There were no marinas or docks near the bridge.

Thoughts? Opinions? Advice?

I want to be a good operator, and I believe I am. I received my 50 ton USCG License and ran Dive Charter boats here for about 5 years in the late 80's, early 90's and have had a boat in this area ever since. I'm not a novice but I'm beginning to wonder if I was in the right or in the wrong. I honestly wouldn't do anything differently, other than possibly monitoring Ch 9 when I approached the bridge, and that's a maybe.

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The downbound power boat has right of way, if the current was from your stern, you have right of way, and up current is the give way vessel.

Hmm. I agree with most of the comments above. There's no requirement to monitor 9. Boats going against the current should yield to boats going with it as a matter of courtesy and, as noted, a matter of law in some places.


As a matter of law, you and the sailboat were wrong in not reaching a passing agreement either by horns or using channel 16. It's true that few US recreational boats ever bother to do that, but in deciding who is going to do what under a bridge it's a good idea.


Jim