Very basic and stoopit questions about costs...

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All great points being made but I'll throw in a couple of variables...

Depreciation: Really depends on the boat and the era you're dealing with. If you bought a used boat 5-6 years ago and kept it in good condition, it's likely NOT depreciated much. While assets depreciate, that's offset by inflation. If you bought during a different period or bought a new boat, the reality could be a lot different.

DIY vs. Paying a Yard. It's not one or the other but rather a spectrum. Where you fall on that spectrum will have a huge impact on your costs. I'm not a full DIY guy but I do a LOT on my boat from installing new electronics, to putting in an inverter, or Changing oil and filter. But I also pay plenty of professionals for heavy engine work, HVAC, and some other stuff. I also use a DIY yard for storage rather than a full service "captive" boat yard. By contrast, I have a friend with a similar boat who doesn't do anything and keeps it at a full service yard. His annual upkeep and maintenance is easily 2x if not 3x mine, not including upgrades.

Bottom line is this is almost an impossible thing to budget if you don't have some experience in how you'll handle various aspects of the cost. Until then the best you do is listen to advice in this forum on what other spend and try to figure who's situation is most like your own.
 
Buy a new boat, suffer depreciation. Buy a newer well maintained boat, suffer some depreciation and some maintenance. Buy an older well maintained boat, suffer little depreciation and a lot of maintenance. Buy a newer poorly maintained boat suffer some depreciation and lots of maintenance. Buy an older poorly maintained boat, suffer no depreciation but spend more on maintenance then the boat will ever be worth.
 
DavidM said:
A general rule of thumb is that it takes 10% of the purchase price each year to keep the boat maintained and upgrade its systems over time to keep up with current technology. Some years less but then some years a big hit happens.

Also a boat is a big depreciable asset. Even spending 10% each year to keep it in shape it will decline in value each year. Maybe 5-10% annually IF you spend the 10% on top of that.

David
Click to expand...

I agree the 10% rule is a good estimate but it doesn't necessarily apply to the first year of ownership. An excellent condition 10-20 year old trawler will still likely "need" some pricey updates during the first year. For example, the electronics package is often 10 or more years old on used boats and batteries may also be older (people tend not to do big upgrades if they intend to sell a boat in a few years), and there may be some other items that you want and might as well have on the boat from the beginning to best enjoy it. Yes a solid electronics package from 2000 is still a perfectly viable navigation suite but it's hard not to recognize the advantages of 2020 equipment that is fully networked or the advantages of the newer battery charging/monitoring systems available today.

As a practical matter I'd double the 10% figure for the first year or two. It's easy to spend $25-50K or more on wish list upgrades and it probably even makes sense to do so in the first year so you have full enjoyment of those upgrades immediately.
 
A boat is a hole in the water into which you pour all your unused money into. There is no end to it. And we all do it willingly.
 
All good points. I fully understand that the age, quality, and previous owners' upkeep play a huge roll in determining how wide I'd have to open my wallet, post-purchase.

But just hearing things like price per foot for dockage/moorage helps as I have never had to deal with this. And the insurance examples help as well.

Curious about the difficulty finding a place to put the boat during the winter. Are they commonly pulled and blocked or left afloat? I worry about the latter because I won't be around. Much rather leave it high and dry. Will this be a problem? And the rates of 14-18 per foot...is that for dock parking, moorage, and or dry storage?

I'm not too worried about the annual nut since I don't plan on having a mort payment and will most likely pay cash for the boat. That right there is 20K freed up. I've seen plenty of stuff for well under 300k that would suit ME. But, I'll probably have to increase that number a bit to suit HER. hahahaha. Of course, a bigger, nicer boat is always a good thing, right? Well, until you need to fix busted stuff.

Thanks to all who opined. I have a lot to learn in the meantime. I just want to go into this with my eyes open and not make stupid mistakes, like buying a junker and then breaking the bank to fix. My goal is to buy the nicest boat I can reasonably afford that some other poor slob just put a ton of money into. I am usually on the short end of that stick!

And lastly, to Chrisjs, I spent the last 36 years in airports and hotels. That's why I want a liveaboard trawler. ;)
 
kthoennes said:
I'm not a mathematician and I don't play one on TV, but I am a part time number cruncher in my professional life. I could chart this for you in Excel but it seems to me a blanket maintenance ratio or percentage really doesn't make much sense out of individual context. Seems to me it works like the attached chart. The ratio of X to Y is a variable, a moving target. Hopefully I'll never get to the point where my lines cross and I'm spending more than the boat is worth on maintenance and upkeep, but if we do keep it a very long time and say we repower someday, I can see how that could easily exceed the value.
Click to expand...

Perfect analogy
 
We don’t typically take boats out nor winterize here in the PNW. In fact, some of the best cruising around here happens after Labor Day...especially nice from a warm dry Pilothouse.
 
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Sealife said:
In rough numbers, it cost what you have
Click to expand...

That's probably the best answer. But there are too many variables to give real estimates. Where are you boating? Will you have a home marina or usually transient. Age of boat. Planned and unplanned maintenance and upgrades. If it was me, I would try to find my own answers locally. That's a pretty big leap to make blindly. A general question to board forum won't get you what you are looking for I think.
 
Assuming no mortgage payments, we have found owning a nice boat will cost you about the same as owning a nice home. Nominally, $15 - 25k per year will likely cover most expenses with some years being a little more and some maybe less. It really depends on Docks vs Moorings, how much you use it, is there a major upgrade or service due, can you do your own oil changes and basic maintenance, etc.
 
Agree with David M

Without more info. I agree 10% per year or $1,000 per foot per year. You can go cheap but it’ll reflect in the value in the end. I lived aboard for a year, did the loop in a 42’ twin diesel. Docked most of the time and had just about $3,000 in unexpected repairs. With dockage, oil changes, repairs and maintenance it’s a good rule of thumb. By no means does it apply universally but a good SWAG.
 
I think it is important to remember that the cost of system upgrades and replacements is related to what they would cost in a new boat of similar size, not what you paid for it.
 
Regarding pulling the boat out and storing on the hard for winter:

Boat owners in the Pacific NW tend to use boats year around. However, if you do want to store it on the hard for the winter months, you will probably have to also continue paying for your slip. Moorage is in short supply, particularly for boat over 40 feet. If you give up your slip you might find yourself with nowhere to go when you put her back in the water....
 
What about:

Yearly insurance.
Moorings/dockage while cruising.
Approx yearly maintenance.
Hauling, bottom paint etc.


Jeff - You and I are on a similar path although I am spending a bit more on the boat part. Largest boat I have run is 30' and looking at 55. I have done a lot of research and found the following:

Insurance $8000 year with coastal waters / Bahamas and exit the Southeast during hurricane season.

Transient dockage 25 days/month @$4/ft X 8 Months = $48,000 (55' boat). More days on the hook the more that is reduced but hey sometimes you want to be in the nice marina near the cool town. I'm figuring this as an average.

Loan (if needed) 20 years at 4.69% ($200K) $15,420 Annual

Fuel 10,000 Annual

Home port Dockage 4 months $8000

Annual Haul-Out $1500

Maintenance $1000/month or $12,000 Annual - that is considering me doing the routine maintenance fixes repairs myself similar to you.

ANNUAL EXPENSE = $103,320.

I wrote this considering the "worst" case to ensure we stay afloat in through early retirement. No fun to be wrong calcualting best case scenarios. Its a boat after all and if I am way wrong (above) then we live better....

I would love for the experienced cruisers to tell me how wrong I am and that it is actually a LOT LESS.
 
Spinner pretty much nailed it for the PNW. I would add that finding a marina that has room for more livaboards can be difficult. Most that I'm aware of only allow a certain percentage of slips to be used that way. The slip can be harder to find then the boat these days. The bigger the boat, the less availability too.
Good Luck!
 
Jeff we had a new boat for the last 4 years and now a 25 yr old boat. We are seattle based so costs should be similar. 10% is a reliable estimate. In Wa you’re paying for tabs which could cost a a few thousand. We are in the water all year so moorage is consistent. The 10% includes everything spent boat related. Some years less, some more. If you’re doing all your own work, definitely less. Bottom paint, prob 3 years ish. Last year diesel was $2 so cheaper there. More crushing, more fuel. Glad to talk thru via phone as needed.
 
All great info. Thanks again.

WRT the plan, it's very hard for me to be specific but somewhere on the east coast of Vancouver Island would be a reasonable approximation since she still has family on the rock.

NE from Victoria, by an hour or more, would strike me as perfect. Say, Ladysmith/Nanaimo? While Vic is nice, I find it crowded and expensive.

If possible, I'd love to find a place that permitted liveaboards, at least part-time. It's not my desire to live on a moored boat, its to get lost on the boat and still have most of the comforts of home. A marina like that might ease the transition from a house to a boat and give her more opportunities to keep up with her family. Plus, she's a fitness freak and could wander off to a gym on occasion while I stay "home" and wrench on the boat.

I look at YT vids of trawlers for sale and I'm quite surprised at how much boat you can get if you're willing to take on one ten or so years old. I understand how unpredictable and pricy maint can be since I've had boats forever, but I've never had one with all of the various $y$tem$ that are found on a modern trawler. And, I want them. From what $he tells me I need to find a boat with a washer-dryer, so I know that kicks me up a notch in both purchase price, length, and maintenance.

Oh yeah, I want wifi too. I'm a fairly active investor and that's important. ;)
 
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My promise to my wife was “expedition lux”... that mean no camping. Residential appliances, washer dryer, watermaker for hot showers, inverter for power on anchor and yes 24/7 internet (I’m still working on tech and need to stay connected so we can pay for all of this). Oh and room for the kids when they visit, etc.

Yes it increased the size and price but it’s worth it.
 
Does anyone else cringe when they see these questions? I just hope Op takes heed that these are real numbers for ownership. If they want to proceed, good for them! There are also a lot of abandoned dreams in places like Indiantown,Fl from would be yachtsmen that didn't realize what it takes to own/dock/maintain there dreamboat....
 
Sailor of Fortune said:
Does anyone else cringe when they see these questions? I just hope Op takes heed that these are real numbers for ownership. If they want to proceed, good for them! There are also a lot of abandoned dreams in places like Indiantown,Fl from would be yachtsmen that didn't realize what it takes to own/dock/maintain there dreamboat....
Click to expand...

Yes. Also see Green Cove Springs, Florida - where boat dreams go to die.
 
There is a lot of great info on thgis forum, as always.
Most people I've spoken to on this subject suggest eliminating fuel and dockage costs from other ownership calculations as they will vary greatly depending on usage and region. Will you cruise at 20 knots from marina to marina or 7 knots from anchorage to anchorage or just liveaboard at the dock?
Even once you've eliminated these variables, the cost of ownership will still vary greatly, boat to boat and owner to owner.
In my experience, 10% is a pretty good rule of thumb for annual maintenance, equipment and upgrades, most years. As others have said, it changes a lot from year to year. I have also had 20% years and 5% years. I’ve also had refit years where I’ve spent more than the value of the boat on the repower/refit. It may sound crazy, but once you’re in, you’re in and believe it or not it may look better than the alternative.
Notes:
• I try to keep my boats in top condition, and have quality boat yards do most of the work.
• I haul out my boat for the winter and keep it on the hard at greatly discounted rates.
Try to avoid brightwork and good luck.
 
Seems to me you can find some very decent cruising trawlers around half or so from what you're quoting.

Yes, might be older, but will bet you'll probably be spending about the same keeping an older boat afloat as the more expensive newer ones.

They ALL suck cash.
 
FIRE said:
.

ANNUAL EXPENSE = $103,320.

I wrote this considering the "worst" case to ensure we stay afloat in through early retirement. No fun to be wrong calcualting best case scenarios. Its a boat after all and if I am way wrong (above) then we live better....

I would love for the experienced cruisers to tell me how wrong I am and that it is actually a LOT LESS.
Click to expand...

You are so wrong and we do it for a lot less
Feel better now?
 
I always love these threads. "It depends." Or "All you got." Or "Not possible to answer." Of course it depends - cost of housing, cars, college education, cost to hire a hitman to whack someone......everything depends on something; and anything can vary widely.

Here are some budgetary numbers based on general assumptions. Lifestyle/cruising costs are not included - assume these do not change much from current lifestyle. Insurance is the only one that directly varies by valuation - if the 50-footer is a Bayliner 4788 or something for $200k, than 13%/yr for ownership costs. If the 50-footer is an N50 just listed with Jeff Merrill for around $625k, you're under 5%/yr. I'm not a fan of the 10% number - I'm more comfortable with a rough-assumption build-up such as below. Adjust as needed to suit.

Boat Ownership Costs.jpg
 
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Jeff,
Some info regarding moorage at the Nanaimo Port Authority (other local marinas will be similar as to policies but pricing can vary a bit). Annual moorage for a 40 foot boat is currently $4800 per year (plus electricity). If you go for a 6 month winter package (this goes from Oct. 1 - Mar. 31) the fee is $2520. If you deviate from these "packages", the daily rate then applies and if taken to a full month comes to $1800 per month. Comparing the annual and daily rates, after 2.6 months of daily, the rest of the year is free if you were on annual! Many boaters cannot live with the rigidity of the 6 month plan.

Very few boats (of this size and up) are winterized and stored on the hard in the PNW, but it is occuring. Moorage is not easy to find, and I strongly suggest that you obtain a firm understanding with the marina you decide on as to ensuring that a slip will be available to you if you don't take an annual slip.
As far as leaving your boat in the water for the winter, if you are located in a good area (not on a small Gulf Island), there are many people available who "boat sit" for a fee. I am sure I could give a few suggestions if you end up locating in the Nanaimo area. There are also "systems" available that enable monitoring your boat via WiFi from a distance to supplement the "boat sitter".

Good luck.
 
Tough question.
My ‘03 GB 42’EU annual costs are as follows:

Insurance$400K value, $4.5 boat US
Fuel about 600Gal Diesel Fuel $3K
Slip fees (summer) $4K
winter storage $1.5K
Gen Mtce. 3-5K
Projects 5-10K
Cruising for 3-4 weeks $3-4K

I’m probably the obsessive owner that goes way beyond but realize oats are costly. Power plant maintenance is expensive. 2000 hr “tune up” including getting injectors cleaned, parts, replace some hoses, belts, checking turbo, water pump mtce(could have been DIY), adjust valves: 5K. Replacing heat exchangers (DIY) 1.5K, 3 yrs ago, re-seamed all teak decks $16K
Added synchronizer ($2K) DIY
This is depressing... I do pray the Admiral isn’t reading this post. ?

And yet, I wouldn’t have it any other way.❤️
 
So for starters, I had no idea what it cost to insure a vessel like this, no idea how much it was to moor one, haul one, paint one, etc. So, for ME this thread has been a great source of information. All I knew were asking prices online. So, thanks to all who opined, particularly those who gave me actual numbers.

I am pleasantly surprised at how much boat one can get per 100K spent. While I am not hell-bent to spend a ton of money, I sure as hell don't want to spend too little and wind up with a vessel that I don't really enjoy operating, owning, and most importantly, living on. Then a year or two later having to try and sell it so I can upgrade to something nicer. I already have an idea of what size galley I want, and that size def pushes the price of the boat UP. Might as well get it right the first time.

I saved a fair amount of money and made a little more on the side just so I could splurge a bit during my retirement. I spent a lot of years away from home to get to this point and I invested a lot over those years. I don't need or want a Rolls but I sure don't want an old beater either. I'm 61, Soon I'll be too damn old to spend my days with a palm sander, scraped knuckles, and a bad back.

I fully get it that costs vary wildly between boats and between their owners, particularly when stuff breaks. Especially diesel stuff, turbocharger stuff, refrigeration stuff, and electronic stuff. Most of the maintenance I'll try and do myself. And when I need a pro, I'll call one. I don't want to deal with brightwork, not unless I win the lotto between now and official retirement which is two years off.

So, if I know up front that a boat is going to cost me 15K per year for moorage, bottom paint, and insurance, and average another 15K or so for "expensive unknowns", well that's a number I believe that I can plan for and I can live with.

Thank you again.
 
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