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Old 09-21-2021, 06:00 PM   #1
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Start battery charging

Our engine does not require an alternator to run and the alternator died a a few years ago ago and we happily kept things going on a 24v 4amp port off of our inverter charger

I replaced it earlier this year with a continuous rated large frame 70 amp alternator but alas, it to has now died as it didn't like charging the house bank, apparently continuous rated doesn't mean what I thought it did

So, as the anchor windlass also runs off of the starts I suspect that we could be undercharging them using the 4amp alone even though we do see 27+ v on the battery monitor at times, if disconnecting the 4amp in batts drop back to 24+v

Question here is, if deciding to add a better charge source what would be better?
Spending $300 again on a dumb large frame alt but only have it doing starts and only doing its thing when engine is running?

Or spending a bit less on a dedicated smart charger like this Victron 24v 16amp which will do its thing 24/7?

https://www.springers.com.au/shop/pr...er-24-16-1-607

I tend to think option 2 is the better way to go as it's conditioning the battery but thoughts from others more knowledgeable appreciated.

Adding one of those $1000 plus smart balmar alts is never going to happen so forget that.
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Old 09-21-2021, 06:30 PM   #2
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My bow thruster is 24 volts. To charge it, I have a 2 bank 12 volt 6 amp charger that is 120 VAC powered off my inverter, generator, or shore power. It's simple and works perfectly.

If you don't need to charge the house battery bank with it, why make it complicated.

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Old 09-21-2021, 06:35 PM   #3
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My opinion?
Put it back to factory specs. It will be easier to trouble shoot for you and the next owner.
Start by replacing the dead alternator and work backwards through the system, replacing the dead parts as you go.
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Old 09-21-2021, 06:40 PM   #4
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My opinion?
Put it back to factory specs. It will be easier to trouble shoot for you and the next owner.
Start by replacing the dead alternator and work backwards through the system, replacing the dead parts as you go.
It's not a factory built boat so no factory specs

The dead part IS the alternator, twice now, loathed to go a 3rd.
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Old 09-21-2021, 06:42 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by O C Diver View Post
.

If you don't need to charge the house battery bank with it, why make it complicated.
My thoughts exactly but what would I know

Thanks
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Old 09-21-2021, 07:01 PM   #6
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It's not a factory built boat so no factory specs

The dead part IS the alternator, twice now, loathed to go a 3rd.
Look up the engine specs and see which alternator is standard then buy two.
While you are ordering, order a starter too. I assume you have a good supply of belts. LOL
(I have a spare alternator but still need the spare starter.)
Any idea how/why the alternators have failed?
Send it in for a rebuild and ask they 'why'.
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Old 09-21-2021, 09:38 PM   #7
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Look up the engine specs and see which alternator is standard then buy two.
So spend $1000 on alts to charge batteries when a $200 battery charge will do the same job?
Seems a bit wasteful of funds

Quote:
While you are ordering, order a starter too. I assume you have a good supply of belts. LOL
(I have a spare alternator but still need the spare starter.)
Already have


Quote:
Any idea how/why the alternators have failed?
As mentioned in the original post, charging the house battery bank

Quote:
Send it in for a rebuild and ask they 'why'.
Nah, sent it back and got my money back instead.
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Old 09-22-2021, 06:21 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simi 60 View Post
I replaced it earlier this year with a continuous rated large frame 70 amp alternator but alas, it to has now died as it didn't like charging the house bank, apparently continuous rated doesn't mean what I thought it did

Question here is, if deciding to add a better charge source what would be better?
Spending $300 again on a dumb large frame alt but only have it doing starts and only doing its thing when engine is running?

Or spending a bit less on a dedicated smart charger like this Victron 24v 16amp which will do its thing 24/7?

Do you mean the main engine alternator was your only charging source for the house bank?

I think I'd want a working alternator on the engine, at minimum for the start battery, no matter what else I put in place.

And then I'd probably also want a dedicated house bank charger. Something like that Victron, maybe, or perhaps Sterling offers something useful in your neck of the woods. Maybe an alternative for charging your windlass bank, too, if you look at 2-bank versions...

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Old 09-22-2021, 06:36 AM   #9
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"I replaced it earlier this year with a continuous rated large frame 70 amp alternator but alas, it to has now died as it didn't like charging the house bank, apparently continuous rated doesn't mean what I thought it did"

A better genuine continuous rated large frame alt is common on large trucks , $135 - $150 in USA.

If you have found a way to charge the house batts a tiny 24V car sized alt would be enough to recharge the engine start , if it can handle engine pumps and blowers that are engine powered.

If your engine has a PTO or you have room for double belts , I would guess the big 24V bus alts (DN 50) could be sourced from local rebuilders?

Here is one for a PTO, there are many other styles belt or HYD driven.
These put out real amps not BS amps.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/28402064985...058f8dfd36c7eb
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Old 09-22-2021, 06:58 AM   #10
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Not sure I follow completely, but if goal is to charge start bank, maybe a dc-dc charger off house bank?

https://rvsolarconnections.com/produ...ted-bluetooth/

Looks like $262 usd on Amazon.
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Old 09-22-2021, 07:07 AM   #11
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Do you mean the main engine alternator was your only charging source for the house bank?
No
Main charge is 2500 watts of solar
Next is 7.5 kVA of Genset, rarely used
Then, as we like doing night passages we tried to use the alt to charge house when there was no sun.
FAIL

Quote:
I think I'd want a working alternator on the engine, at minimum for the start battery, no matter what else I put in place.
Yeah, not convinced
Alt only works when engine is running and has a 12 mths warranty
Smart charger works 24/7 and has a 5 year warranty.

Quote:
And then I'd probably also want a dedicated house bank charger. Something like that Victron, maybe, or perhaps Sterling offers something useful in your neck of the woods. Maybe an alternative for charging your windlass bank, too, if you look at 2-bank versions...

-Chris
We have a victron 24v 5000 va/120amp charge multiplus on house
Plus a midnite classic 150 mppt to do solar charge @ 96 amps
Just need something to keep two 12v linked as 24v tickled up.
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Old 09-22-2021, 07:10 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by FF View Post
.
These put out real amps not BS amps.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/28402064985...058f8dfd36c7eb
$1000 plus
I don't need that expenditure to charge a 24v batt.
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Old 09-22-2021, 07:14 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by mvweebles View Post
Not sure I follow completely, but if goal is to charge start bank, maybe a dc-dc charger off house bank?

https://rvsolarconnections.com/produ...ted-bluetooth/

Looks like $262 usd on Amazon.
Yep, or plug in the one linked to and charge from inverter which is on 24/7

Run from house bank to starts is near 30 ft, wire probably cost more than charger - well not quite
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Old 09-22-2021, 07:44 AM   #14
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Yeah, not convinced
Alt only works when engine is running and has a 12 mths warranty
Smart charger works 24/7 and has a 5 year warranty.

Not to worry. What I'd probably do doesn't have to be what you choose.

A smart charger only works until it doesn't, though, and that's why I'd be thinking of some sort of redundancy.

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Old 09-22-2021, 08:13 AM   #15
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I still think is worthwhile to determine why three alternator have failed.
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Old 09-22-2021, 09:11 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldDan1943 View Post
I still think is worthwhile to determine why three alternator have failed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simi 60 View Post
Our engine does not require an alternator to run and the alternator died a a few years ago ago and we happily kept things going on a 24v 4amp port off of our inverter charger

I replaced it earlier this year with a continuous rated large frame 70 amp alternator but alas, it to has now died as it didn't like charging the house bank, apparently continuous rated doesn't mean what I thought it did

So, as the anchor windlass also runs off of the starts I suspect that we could be undercharging them using the 4amp alone even though we do see 27+ v on the battery monitor at times, if disconnecting the 4amp in batts drop back to 24+v

Question here is, if deciding to add a better charge source what would be better?
Spending $300 again on a dumb large frame alt but only have it doing starts and only doing its thing when engine is running?

Or spending a bit less on a dedicated smart charger like this Victron 24v 16amp which will do its thing 24/7?

https://www.springers.com.au/shop/pr...er-24-16-1-607

I tend to think option 2 is the better way to go as it's conditioning the battery but thoughts from others more knowledgeable appreciated.

Adding one of those $1000 plus smart balmar alts is never going to happen so forget that.
It's likely you are killing the alternators with oveheating if they are internally regulated. If you're not already using it a smart external regulator with alt temp sensing may be the solution. Balmar gear is on the spendy side. I had been planning on marinehowto's CMS alternators, I have twins, plus WakeSpeed smart regulators. But his store is down due to health problems. https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/...ad.php?t=60069 As much as I appreciate Rod's contriubtions to the boating community in general and his unparalleled support of the gear he sells I need to get this upgrade done.

I'd much rather buy from and deal with Rod but I'm now looking at electromaax gear. https://electromaax.com/
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Old 09-22-2021, 10:33 AM   #17
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Maybe I missed it, but what are the amp hours of the house bank?
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Old 09-22-2021, 12:53 PM   #18
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I use GM CS-144, 12v, 140 amp, car alternators. In the US they're cheap and I've never had one fail. Parts are available online and you can buy a replacement internal regulator that's a single wire hookup. I use 8d Dyno batteries that last 8-10 years, so I guess the charging is ok. You can make them produce other voltages by changing the regulator or changing some parts in the regulator. I have a couple that produce 48v, 35 amps. Both my mains have 2 alternators, 12v & 48v for the house bank and inverter.
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Old 09-22-2021, 02:48 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by ranger42c View Post

A smart charger only works until it doesn't, though, and that's why I'd be thinking of some sort of redundancy.

-Chris
And an alternator only works untill I doesn't as well
What redundancy have you got after it fails?

The redundancy we have is the 4 amp wire off of the main inverter charger
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Old 09-22-2021, 02:54 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Portage_Bay View Post
It's likely you are killing the alternators with oveheating if they are internally regulated. If you're not already using it a smart external regulator with alt temp sensing may be the solution. Balmar gear is on the spendy side. I had been planning on marinehowto's CMS alternators, I have twins, plus WakeSpeed smart regulators. But his store is down due to health problems. https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/...ad.php?t=60069 As much as I appreciate Rod's contriubtions to the boating community in general and his unparalleled support of the gear he sells I need to get this upgrade done.

I'd much rather buy from and deal with Rod but I'm now looking at electromaax gear. https://electromaax.com/
Exactly right
And I know that is "A" solution
But like I said, I am not spending well over $1000 fixing something that doesn't really need fixing.

Existing 2500 watts of solar is more than capable of keeping house bank topped up
Then there is Genset if needed.
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