Electric Outboards

[backinblue]

A friend had a troublesome small Merc (3.5 hp). I had the same engine and lots of starting problems. He went with a 2 HP air-cooled Yamaha. Seems more reliable and easy to use, but noisy as hell. It's like sitting with your head a couple feet from a lawnmower. I went with the eProp which is virtually silent. In fact it's so quiet my wife is still having trouble getting used to it because there is no noise feedback to tell you how fast it's running. It's alledegedly about 3 HP and fine for my small inflatable. It easily breaks apart into 2 pieces (battery and motor), each less than 20 lb so easy for both of us to handle. When done using, I don't have to worry about running it dry or leaking gas. I put it in its carry case and can throw it on a bunk or wherever is convenient. No special handling or positions for storage. It can be upside down, it doesn't matter.

 

[Martin610]

I need to make on cautionary note on the Malabo video. The spokesperson made several references to 48 volts being safe to touch. Never, ever, assume that. At 48 volts there can be plenty of amperage to cause injury or death.

I'm a retired phone company engineer. All telco critical systems in the US run on -48 volts. We take extraordinary precautions to ensure safety. Even with that we have lost people over the years.

 

[OldDan1943]

I need to make on cautionary note on the Malabo video. The spokesperson made several references to 48 volts being safe to touch. Never, ever, assume that. At 48 volts there can be plenty of amperage to cause injury or death.

I'm a retired phone company engineer. All telco critical systems in the US run on -48 volts. We take extraordinary precautions to ensure safety. Even with that we have lost people over the years.

12vt DC is enough to wake me up and start my heart. Not as good as my morning coffee but real close.

Reminds me of one old commercial.... to paraphrase. If it is so safe, we can get Miky to touch it.

 

[backinblue]

I need to make on cautionary note on the Malabo video. The spokesperson made several references to 48 volts being safe to touch. Never, ever, assume that. At 48 volts there can be plenty of amperage to cause injury or death.

I'm a retired phone company engineer. All telco critical systems in the US run on -48 volts. We take extraordinary precautions to ensure safety. Even with that we have lost people over the years.

As a technician working on modems in the late 70's, I remember getting lit up by tip and ring voltages if you weren't careful, so I agree, 48v is enough to hurt you.

 

[Duffy 35]

I have been looking at these as well. Interesting that GM just took a $150M position in electric outboards; link below. These outboards are essentially maintenance free and by all indications easier to get on and off the transom.

https://www.theverge.com/2021/11/22/22796986/gm-pure-watercraft-investment-electric-boats

 

[IfItsWorthDoing]

FWIW, the novel fully integrated Remigo 1kW outboard that looks just like a rudder could also usefully serve as an emergency rudder for the mothership - at much the same price as a commercially available ER …

 

[Nomad Willy]

SocalRider wrote;
“ Yes, the electrics are almost totally silent and vibe free from 0-100% power. A 1kW (1.34hp) ePropulsion would do fine for your 12' rowboat. ”

Thanks much but I’m very happy w the gas outboards I have.
2hp, 4hp, 6hp and 8hp. One 4s … 60hp Suzuki.

 

[Blues]

Exciting stuff, I hate small, gas outboards.

 

[backinblue]

Exciting stuff, I hate small, gas outboards.

I bought a brand new 3.5 hp Merc and used nothing but ethanol free gas in it from day one. After 1 year of marginal performance and some hassle, it wouldn't start the next year and went to the shop. While it was there I bought an eProp and never looked back. Happily sold the almost new crappy Merc to the service place. BTW, problems with these small gas outboards are common, just look at some online reviews. A friend had the same issues with similar motor and now has a 2 HP air cooled Suzuki (i.e. very load but more reliable) From experience I can tell you electric is zero maintenance and trouble free and lighter and easier to handle and store than any gas motor. Silent reliable operation every time.

 

[PNK]

I have been thinking about this, also, and have seen outboards up to the equivalent of about 70HP, but was hoping there would be development of an electric trawler, thinking you could substitute batteries for traditional ballast, but the math doesn't seem to work out, at least so far. A European yard has actually started building one, but it is a 65-footer, and the range on electric only is 80km; they claim a 1000km range running the generator to power the electric engine, but then why not just run a diesel engine, which has to be more efficient.
I'll bet things will change pretty quickly, though, just like with cars; 10 years ago seeing an electric car was a real novelty, now they are all over the place.

 

[BandB]

I have been thinking about this, also, and have seen outboards up to the equivalent of about 70HP, but was hoping there would be development of an electric trawler, thinking you could substitute batteries for traditional ballast, but the math doesn't seem to work out, at least so far. A European yard has actually started building one, but it is a 65-footer, and the range on electric only is 80km; they claim a 1000km range running the generator to power the electric engine, but then why not just run a diesel engine, which has to be more efficient.
I'll bet things will change pretty quickly, though, just like with cars; 10 years ago seeing an electric car was a real novelty, now they are all over the place.

Greenline is the pioneer on electric trawler types. They build diesel, hybrid, or all electric but the limitation of electric remains a very short range of about 30 nm.

 

[OldDan1943]

Even if the boat is totally electric, no diesels on board, it is pollution relocation. Building high voltage transmission lines cost BIG buck. Then there is the cost of building new power plants due to increased demand. Every step of a building new facilities creates more pollution. Everything costs

 

[BandB]

Even if the boat is totally electric, no diesels on board, it is pollution relocation. Building high voltage transmission lines cost BIG buck. Then there is the cost of building new power plants due to increased demand. Every step of a building new facilities creates more pollution. Everything costs

Wifey B: I'm just a plain simple girl so perhaps need your help. Will you please explain what high voltage transmission lines have to do with electric boats? I mean not like they plug in and boat and have 100 mile long extension cords. Last I knew they didn't cause you to build new power plants either. At least put a better segue please.

 

[OldDan1943]

Wifey B: I'm just a plain simple girl so perhaps need your help. Will you please explain what high voltage transmission lines have to do with electric boats? I mean not like they plug in and boat and have 100 mile long extension cords. Last I knew they didn't cause you to build new power plants either. At least put a better segue please.

Watch my hands and finger, no magic..... the high voltage transmission lines run between the power plants through step down transformers to the end user.
Example: My bro has an electric car. He installed a charging station at his place. He buys power from Detroit Edison. The power goes substation, reducing the voltage, send it back out to the end users through step down transformers.

PRESTO!!! That is the basic method of moving electric from the power plant to the end user and allowing my brother to charge his car. All you need to do is change 'my brother's car" to "electric boat batteries".
See, no magic involved just a power plant, lots of wires and transformers then, more wires.

Ah forgot, the need for additional power plants as demand for electric power increase.
Don't worry, no test.

 

[KnotYet]

Watch my hands and finger, no magic..... the high voltage transmission lines run between the power plants through step down transformers to the end user.
Example: My bro has an electric car. He installed a charging station at his place. He buys power from Detroit Edison. The power goes substation, reducing the voltage, send it back out to the end users through step down transformers.

PRESTO!!! That is the basic method of moving electric from the power plant to the end user and allowing my brother to charge his car. All you need to do is change 'my brother's car" to "electric boat batteries".
See, no magic involved just a power plant, lots of wires and transformers then, more wires.

Ask your brother when the bulk of his charging takes place.
Maybe you'll learn about something called 'off-peak' charging.

No magic and no new transmission hardware, either.
Needing to improve the infrastructure is an ongoing process and an economic stimulus.

It is interesting that even as we are discussing the many advantages of electric
outboards and the advancing technology they represent, the gloom and doom of
adopting larger electric boat motors persists.

 

[OldDan1943]

This is an edited version:

Watch my hands and finger, no magic..... the high voltage transmission lines run between the power plants through step down transformers to the end user, my brother's car. The basic path.
Example: My bro has an electric car. He installed a charging station at his place. He buys power from Detroit Edison. The power goes substation, reducing the voltage, send it back out to the end users through step down transformers.

PRESTO!!! That is the basic method of moving electric from the power plant to the end user and allowing my brother to charge his car. All you need to do is change 'my brother's car" to "electric boat batteries".
See, no magic involved, (my fingers never left my hands), just a power plant, lots of wires and step down transformers and step up transformer as needed then, more wires to the end users. My brother's car and house or boat batteries.

Ah forgot, the need for additional power plants as demand for electric power increase.
Don't worry, no test.

KnotYet, not every every place has 'off-peak'. I have never lived in a place with the 'off-peak' program

 

[GoneFarrell]

I read that the Pure Watercraft 50 hp offering runs a battery pack at 350 volts. Most houses only have 240 V. I don't know of any 480V on docks, maybe commercial docks. So I assume another high voltage feed and transformer to charge a 350 volt battery pack.
I think that is in their charger offering, takes 5 hours for 50 to 100% with 120 VAC input supply to one battery. That would imply a buck up transformer, not very efficient. Or maybe they split up the bank into thirds for charging at 120V.

Cool motor/battery pack. The super quiet aspect is great. $16K w/one battery. Keeping my 6 horse Yamaha for the time being.

 

[Benthic2]

.....not every every place has 'off-peak'. I have never lived in a place with the 'off-peak' program

Every place has "off-peak". Not every place has different rates for off peak power. The point is that you don't need to build more power plants because there is plenty of unused capacity at night. But, if you do build new power plants they are less polluting and more efficient than the decades old coal burning plants they will replace.

 

[Benthic2]

"It's only got a range of 120 feet"
"It's altitude was only 10 feet"
"it doesn't have wi-fi"
-citizens of Kitty Hawk circa 1903

 

[OldDan1943]

Every place has "off-peak". Not every place has different rates for off peak power. The point is that you don't need to build more power plants because there is plenty of unused capacity at night. But, if you do build new power plants they are less polluting and more efficient than the decades old coal burning plants they will replace.

Ben, I see where you are going and I wish there was a way to reliably harness that unused night time capacity. Alas it it not always there when the night time temp are high. I lived in one area that offered a reduced rate if you agreed for the power company to shut down your a/c remotely when the load was close to max. As I recall, the shut down for less than an hour and then, they would turn you back on as they shut down others. After the first shutdown I never noticed it. I never did learn if the program was successful.

 

[socalrider]

Ben, I see where you are going and I wish there was a way to reliably harness that unused night time capacity. Alas it it not always there when the night time temp are high. I lived in one area that offered a reduced rate if you agreed for the power company to shut down your a/c remotely when the load was close to max. As I recall, the shut down for less than an hour and then, they would turn you back on as they shut down others. After the first shutdown I never noticed it. I never did learn if the program was successful.

I've spent my whole career on this kind of stuff, broadly referred to as the "energy transition". We refer to the "electrification of everything" as one of the steps in the process of moving away from carbon-based energy. In reality it means "electrification of everything that can realistically be electrified", mainly light duty road transportation, building HVAC (heat pumps are amazing), etc.

That's one step, the other step is cleaning up the electricity supply. This is actually the easy part relatively speaking, and we are making extremely fast progress now that wind and solar are the lowest cost energy source by a long shot.

TL/DR: The grid is far cleaner than diesel basically everywhere, and getting cleaner by the day. If you're considering an electric outboard, incremental charging load really doesn't belong on your list of concerns.

 

[Benthic2]

I used to work for a company that ran those programs. They are incredibly successful. The impact is bigger with commercial companies but residential participation is significant. They usually give customers a significant price discount if they agree to participate in these programs.
That excess capacity at night CAN be harnessed. "Time of use" rates and environmental awareness will encourage people to wash their dishes and dry their clothes at night. Charging EV's happens during the night when that capacity is available. Eventually, homes are going to be built with storage capacity. They will charge up at night and reduce demand during peak hours by drawing off their stored power. This is where battery technology gains will have the biggest impact.

 

[OldDan1943]

I used to work for a company that ran those programs. They are incredibly successful. The impact is bigger with commercial companies but residential participation is significant. They usually give customers a significant price discount if they agree to participate in these programs.
That excess capacity at night CAN be harnessed. "Time of use" rates and environmental awareness will encourage people to wash their dishes and dry their clothes at night. Charging EV's happens during the night when that capacity is available. Eventually, homes are going to be built with storage capacity. They will charge up at night and reduce demand during peak hours by drawing off their stored power. This is where battery technology gains will have the biggest impact.

There was also a program to allow the home owner's a reduced rate for night time use. Folks would wash and dry their clothes at night. Never heard if that worked.
One school would cool piles of stones in the basement at night and then, day time, use the coolness to cool the school. Never heard if that save significant energy

 

[socalrider]

There was also a program to allow the home owner's a reduced rate for night time use. Folks would wash and dry their clothes at night.

We had those even back in the 1970's in NY State. Part of the reason was they needed people to shift load to the evening because the nuke plants couldn't (can't) ramp up and down the way CCGT's can.

In CA now, midday is "off peak" because there's so much solar! "Peak" is generally 4-9pm now when the sun sets as people come home from work & turn everything on. Tons and tons of batteries coming online now to mitigate that peak.

 

[OldDan1943]

Of course there was the Fed program, closing stores early to save energy. Perhaps the greatest saving was the reduction for paying the 'help'.
Closing gas station early.....

 

[Benthic2]

...In CA now, midday is "off peak" because there's so much solar!....

That's awesome!!!!! Proof that the smart grid, demand response and renewable energy use are making a difference!!

 

[backinblue]

Watch my hands and finger, no magic..... the high voltage transmission lines run between the power plants through step down transformers to the end user.
Example: My bro has an electric car. He installed a charging station at his place. He buys power from Detroit Edison. The power goes substation, reducing the voltage, send it back out to the end users through step down transformers.

PRESTO!!! That is the basic method of moving electric from the power plant to the end user and allowing my brother to charge his car. All you need to do is change 'my brother's car" to "electric boat batteries".
See, no magic involved just a power plant, lots of wires and transformers then, more wires.

Ah forgot, the need for additional power plants as demand for electric power increase.
Don't worry, no test.

You forgot to mention that the generation of the power itself, after you build the infrastructure, is also not green. It could be more efficient perhaps, but still it's reallocation. And then someday there will be huge numbers of huge batteries to be disposed of or recycle, but hey, let's not put too much thought into this, it's easier not to.

 

[backinblue]

Every place has "off-peak". Not every place has different rates for off peak power. The point is that you don't need to build more power plants because there is plenty of unused capacity at night. But, if you do build new power plants they are less polluting and more efficient than the decades old coal burning plants they will replace.

Tell that to the people who froze in Houston last winter.

 

[backinblue]

That's awesome!!!!! Proof that the smart grid, demand response and renewable energy use are making a difference!!

Or proof that busniesses are closing and people and businesses are leaving the state. Shuttered stores don't require much energy mid-day anymore.

 

[OldDan1943]

You forgot to mention that the generation of the power itself, after you build the infrastructure, is also not green. It could be more efficient perhaps, but still it's reallocation. And then someday there will be huge numbers of huge batteries to be disposed of or recycle, but hey, let's not put too much thought into this, it's easier not to.

I agree, what to do with the huge number of 'spent' batteries. To make any progress, the various types of batteries MUST be recycled.