I am surprised(and nothing related to trawlers)

[BruceK]

KREMLIN SPOKESMAN SAYS UKRAINE MUST AMEND CONSTITUTION AND REJECT CLAIMS TO ENTER ANY BLOC

UKRAINE MUST RECOGNISE CRIMEA AS RUSSIAN, AND DONETSK AND LUGANSK AS INDEPENDENT STATES

IF THESE CONDITIONS ARE MET, THEN RUSSIAN MILITARY ACTION WILL ‘STOP IN A MOMENT’ - SPOKESMAN



Sorry but the caps were in the text quoted

Sounds like Attila the Hun`s offer after a good day on the battlefield. "STOP in a moment"? Sure...
I hear Russia has used almost all the allocated force and is seeking to enlist Syrian fighters. True? "The first casualty of war is truth" but if so, it`s not going well enough for those "terms".

 

[BruceK]

Greetings,
Mr. N. Of course China is not our friend. China's ONLY friend is itself. $$$$$$ speaks louder than anything both in China AND the rest of the world. Why do you think you seldom see Made in USA much anymore? Companies both in American and most every country have moved their facilities to China for those $$$$$ mentioned above. That's the "beauty" of capitalism. Make the most profit you can for the owners and shareholders.


As I've mentioned many times, it's China's velvet invasion. A LOT smarter that Putin and other invaders using strong arm methods.

Definitely not Australia`s friend. They were gradually taking us over until we finally realized what was happening.
The Chinese company running Darwin port,our most northerly port and a US base,isn`t named "Landbridge" for nothing. I`m always pleased when I buy something made overseas and it comes from Vietnam,Thailand, Philippines,or almost anywhere else.

 

[Lou_tribal]

Remember China cannot feed itself.

It buys lots of grain from Latin America and the US, and goes back and forth depending on the value of the dollar which affects their cost.

They own the US pork producers. But those operations are here and in a pinch some nicely phrased version of nationalization is possible. We are exporters of chicken. We raise our own beef. We grow more grain than we can consume.

China is watching what we are doing with Russia. You have to bet they are adjusting their own contingency plans accordingly.

We can be energy independent. We can feed ourselves. Our military remains dominant when we remember how to properly use it. At the core we have the best position on the board so long as we don't step on our own shoelaces.

One thing that China own and for a lot of country is debt.
Like your bank, they could decide to ask to repay your debt, and if you can't well your economy will be in trouble.
And don't think anybody will be safe, you may produce your meat, but if you don't have $ to pay the slaughter, you won't have much to eat.

Anyway not the topic of the thread.

L

 

[BruceK]

It`s reported Poland will donate its approx 27 MIGs to Ukraine to be replaced by USA with used more modern planes. The MIGs are to go to Germany to be processed by USA(why?) for delivery.
That seems to raise a number of potential triggers for Putin to expand the conflict. Why via Germany when they can just fly across the border. Maybe they`d be shot down on the way.

 

[78puget-trawler]

Maybe they figure Pootin is less likely to attack Germany than Poland if this move angers him and it probably will.

 

[psneeld]

The US has capabilities to repair just about any jet and its electronics.

Lesson learned after many coalition wars where other countries showed up with dilapidated warplanes and no support for them.

So our air bases in Germany may just be the convenient choice.

 

[FWT]

It`s reported Poland will donate its approx 27 MIGs to Ukraine to be replaced by USA with used more modern planes. The MIGs are to go to Germany to be processed by USA(why?) for delivery.
That seems to raise a number of potential triggers for Putin to expand the conflict. Why via Germany when they can just fly across the border. Maybe they`d be shot down on the way.

It makes more sense when you pick up a few more details.

Last weekend the US surprised Poland with its public offer to them. The offer was Poland send planes in support of Ukraine, based out of Poland. The word is Poland was none too happy.

Today's retort is a very diplomatic "up yours". Poland's counteroffer is that they are happy to turn over the planes for that use, to the US, to be based at a US / NATO base. And the US can replace them in good time.

In other words, NOPE we are not going to be the patsy to a US grand gesture that puts Poland at war with Russia. YOU take the planes, into YOUR control, and YOU base them. Poland is more than happy to assist Ukraine but isn't willing to be a US pawn.

Meanwhile, Zelensky is pondering Russian terms, as to how can that germ of an idea Russia proposed be turned into something more acceptable. That is a more mature response than some others in the public sphere.

 

[FWT]

And this just in. The US response to the Poland counterproposal:

"We are now in contact with the Polish government following the statement issued today. As we have said, the decision about whether to transfer Polish-owned planes to Ukraine is ultimately one for the Polish government. We will continue consulting with our Allies and partners about our ongoing security assistance to Ukraine, because, in fact, Poland's proposal shows just some of the complexities this issue presents. The prospect of fighter jets "at the disposal of the Government of the United States of America" departing from a U.S./NATO base in Germany to fly into airspace that is contested with Russia over Ukraine raises serious concerns for the entire NATO alliance. It is simply not clear to us that there is a substantive rationale for it. We will continue to consult with Poland and our other NATO allies about this issue and the difficult logistical challenges it presents, but we do not believe Poland's proposal is a tenable one."

 

[angus99]

It makes more sense when you pick up a few more details.

Last weekend the US surprised Poland with its public offer to them. The offer was Poland send planes in support of Ukraine, based out of Poland. The word is Poland was none too happy.

Today's retort is a very diplomatic "up yours". Poland's counteroffer is that they are happy to turn over the planes for that use, to the US, to be based at a US / NATO base. And the US can replace them in good time.

In other words, NOPE we are not going to be the patsy to a US grand gesture that puts Poland at war with Russia. YOU take the planes, into YOUR control, and YOU base them. Poland is more than happy to assist Ukraine but isn't willing to be a US pawn.

Meanwhile, Zelensky is pondering Russian terms, as to how can that germ of an idea Russia proposed be turned into something more acceptable. That is a more mature response than some others in the public sphere.

This seems to be exactly backwards. https://www.politico.com/news/2022/...s-to-the-us-as-ukraine-asks-for-help-00015259

 

[BruceK]

I just heard a report consistent with FWT`s post 160. As I said of the proposal in post 156: "That seems to raise a number of potential triggers for Putin to expand the conflict". USA supplying replacement aircraft to Poland effectively meant it was enabling Ukraine`s "new" fleet.
Unfortunately, Ukraine likely misses out on useful equipment.

 

[kthoennes]

So we're back to No Netflix, no iPhones and no Big Macs for you! And we'll cut up your credit cards! Pretty much literally like a parent grounding a kid for blowing curfew.

 

[kthoennes]

I think a previous post is right, truth is a frequent casualty of war - but in this current crisis, you've got one country clamping down hard and tightly controlling all news and arresting thousands for protesting, while the other country is still wide open and connected, to social media and any journalists gutsy enough to risk being there. Kyiv still has live downtown webcams streaming. I've had two email conversations with contacts in Kyiv over the last week and as far as I can tell, they're free to say anything they want in email and send me anything they want, including photos. Until I have reason to doubt otherwise, I'll give Ukraine the credibility. Highly unlikely they staged the bombing of the childrens/maternity hospital for the good propaganda angle.

 

[angus99]

I think a previous post is right, truth is a frequent casualty of war - but in this current crisis, you've got one country clamping down hard and tightly controlling all news and arresting thousands for protesting, while the other country is still wide open and connected, to social media and any journalists gutsy enough to risk being there. Kyiv still has live downtown webcams streaming. I've had two email conversations with contacts in Kyiv over the last week and as far as I can tell, they're free to say anything they want in email and send me anything they want, including photos. Until I have reason to doubt otherwise, I'll give Ukraine the credibility. Highly unlikely they staged the bombing of the childrens/maternity hospital for the good propaganda angle.

Thank you for pointing out something that needed to be said. The only reason we have deep visibility and independent corroboration of facts on the ground coming out of Ukraine is because reporters are risking their lives to get the stories out. Social media and bloggers help as well, but their reach is often local and limited and their sources can be accurate or totally compromised. I have plenty of issues with the 24-hour news cycle and how outlets flog and hype “breaking news.” This, however, really is breaking news and there’s a reason Russians believe it’s a justified minor incursion with no real civilian toll: all they receive is state-sponsored propaganda. The truth is not the first casualty of war—an independent press is.

 

[koliver]

This thread has become pure politics, so I have unapproved much of the recent discussion. If it persists, the thread will be closed.

On behalf of the Site Team