Are you using a Bridle with your anchoring setup?

[mickand]

Mantus bridle - love it - no more creaking chain as I try to nod off.

 

[Bob M]

Snubber v Bridle

Up until today, I assumed that a ground tackle snubber and bridle were the same thing.


But, like most of my assumptions, it appears to be wrong. A little research indicates that a snubber uses one line between the rode and a cleat while a bridle uses two lines between the rode and two cleats.

 

[Senojev]

Bridle

We use a 20’ nylon bridle with thimbles to a chain hook. 250’ of 5/16 HT chain with another 150’ of brait in the other chain locker if needed. Never had the chain hook fall off in around 1000 nights at anchor... we do have easy access to put hook on and take it off. I could see issues on many boats where access is more difficult and would likely use a soft shackle.

 

[Bryant]

Bridle

Are you using Snubber, Bridle, or nothing?

I use a bridle and I take pressure off that with a backup snubber. This has completely removed any noise from my anchor chain, it has reduced hunting and is double protection for the windlass and the boat from sudden squalls.

 

[Bryant]

Bridle.

Mantus bridle - love it - no more creaking chain as I try to nod off.

Me too. With the same results.

 

[Steve Bedford]

I always use a bridle. My bridle adds about 10-15' of scope and since it attaches much lower on the chain, (about 10' below water surface) puts more chain on the bottom increasing the holding.

For some reason North Pacific likes to use a smooth roller. Because of that, the chain flops around while under tension, which creates a heck of a thumping noise. The bridle gets rid of that very annoying noise that makes it impossible for me to get a good night sleep. Whenever you hear a loud thump while at anchor it's usually not a good thing.

I used bridle. However, here is an interesting perspective on this. I frequently receive questions, suggestions, comments, and recommendations from my customers. A while ago, one stated he uses a bridle and also stated that he felt the bridle added additional feet of rode depending on where he attached the hook. That lead to a discussion about a re-calculation of scope, since the bridle hook was lower in the water than height of the bow roller. Another participated in that discussion and said that when the rode becomes straight on a big blow, the bridle (or single line snubber) is still going over the bow and the bow to water level distance still should be used to calculate depth for scope determination. What this guy does, which I had not thought about before, was to allow more deadweight chain to fall to the seabed after the bridle or snubber attachment point on the chain. He believes this added deadweight helps keep the bridle or snubber attachment point lower in the water. He said this helps keep that shank to seabed angle lower without actually adding a larger scope.

Anyone have a comment on this?

 

[psneeld]

anything that keeps the rode more horizontal longer in a blow helps (at least to a point), but ultimately it will lift....


we all learn what works and what is more effort than needed.

 

[caltexflanc]

First, I am a big believe in a deep lazy loop of chain in back of the hook. It adds more weight the boat has to "lift" against as the wind acts on it. And with most hook configurations, it aids in securing the hook.

Second, the bridle or snubber is a part of the rode and does not affect the scoper calculation whatsoever. The only way you accomplish that is by lowering the attachment point on the boat, via a bow eye down by the water line, a subject discussed here at some length not long ago.

 

[Steve Bedford]

First, I am a big believe in a deep lazy loop of chain in back of the hook. It adds more weight the boat has to "lift" against as the wind acts on it. And with most hook configurations, it aids in securing the hook.

I now see the potential benefit of that added dead weight. Wish I had thought of that before!

Second, the bridle or snubber is a part of the rode and does not affect the scoper calculation whatsoever. The only way you accomplish that is by lowering the attachment point on the boat, via a bow eye down by the water line, a subject discussed here at some length not long ago.

I also agree with those statements: the bridle or snubber is part of the rode and scope calculation. The potential is always there for it to go straight and attach over height of the bow.

 

[psneeld]

One thing to remember, a lot of people don't plan on anchoring in conditions ( weather forecasts or selection in anchorages) where totally straightening their rode is more than the occasional tug.

 

[backinblue]

One thing to remember, a lot of people don't plan on anchoring in conditions ( weather forecasts or selection in anchorages) where totally straightening their rode is more than the occasional tug.

I'll go one further and say that people almost never plan to anchor in those conditions, but that doesn't mean that most of us don't end up in those conditions sooner or later.

 

[rslifkin]

I carry gear for bad conditions, but I prep (scope, etc) based on both the forecast and a fudge factor for weather being worse than expected. So usually I'm prepped for a potential thunderstorm or similar, but not a major blow. But I could prep for worse easily if needed.

 

[psneeld]

I'll go one further and say that people almost never plan to anchor in those conditions, but that doesn't mean that most of us don't end up in those conditions sooner or later.

Learnig weather can help.

Can't remember the last time I was surprised.

But I admit my 2 careers depended on weather.

If in doubt, I head for a marina, or rig for heavier wrather.

 

[HeadedToTexas]

First, I am a big believe in a deep lazy loop of chain in back of the hook. It adds more weight the boat has to "lift" against as the wind acts on it. And with most hook configurations, it aids in securing the hook.

A sufficiently long loop behind the bridle hook eliminates stress on the pulpit should conditions go bad.

...though I suppose proper maintenance should eliminate that as well.

 

[Hippocampus]

Perhaps some one here can supply more details but recall reading about how sudden severe gusty winds winds caused multiple boats to drag at anchor in a popular anchorage in the gulf of California (Mexico). Recall the write up noted multiple boats had their snubbers fail. The sudden shock when the snubber snapped in half caused anchors to come out or ground gear to fail with resultant loss of the vessels. Recall the mention of snubbers failure from chafe, being under sized or not being multiple ( bridle or even more lines than two). Boats that survived had at least 2 snubbers, properly sized and to strong attachments. Total set up as strong as chain.
We try to do things the same every time. Means less to think about. You get better and quicker at doing it and you have less to carry. Use heavy triple twist nylon with thimbles in the spliced splices where attached to the mantus hook. The other end of the nylon has an eye splice which is looped over the bow cleat. Then cleat on top after adjusting for length. Want at least 3 to 4’ of loose chain in the water. Find boats vary. Sometimes when wind is from one direction and swell from another boats will sail much less if one side (the side of the swell usually) is tighter than the other. You can adjust angle of attack with a bride. You can’t with a single snubber so never use one.
It’s almost always just me and the bride. Doing it the same every time make it rout and one less thing on the list. Often get up to pee in the middle of the night and go check on stuff. Often surprised to see the chain bar tight when I had no appreciation of conditions while in the stateroom.

 

[caltexflanc]

Hippocampus, I believe you are recalling references to the Cabo San Lucas hurricane many decades ago, used as a case study in Hinz's excellent "Complete Book of Anchoring and Mooring".

 

[backinblue]

I am somewhat of a weather freak and am always checking forecasts. That doesn't mean that they are 100% accurate and I've never been surprised.

 

[HeadedToTexas]

Being weather freak myself, I have grown jaded about forecasts. Anything but the most obvious is usually wrong.

 

[SteveK]

sudden severe gusty winds winds
at least 3 to 4’ of loose chain in the water.

Sudden severe gusty winds winds will affect the best laid plans.
Several posted a longer snubber or bridle, IMO, the longer it is the more time involved retrieving under sudden severe gusty winds winds, that will not be fun.

Another mention of getting a greater scope. Sure as long as it does not get tight. My bridle is cleated about one foot below roller, (an extra 10 feet of rode off roller be the same?). I would not use it for scope calcs.

My bridle is shorter by some descriptions here, but it is only to take the shock load off the roller and windlas.
Adding 3-4 feet of loose chain to act as a kellet sounds like a good idea and I will start doing that.

 

[Slider70]

I always use one for the reasons already noted but mainly to reduce the chain noise. The downside is I can't hear if the anchor drags but that means I have to be more careful in setting the anchor.

 

[Simi 60]

One thing to remember, a lot of people don't plan on anchoring in conditions ( weather forecasts or selection in anchorages) where totally straightening their rode is more than the occasional tug.

But they should.
Every time we anchor we do so to be in a position to be good in 50+ knots from any direction
Always have a "weather eye" open
And always have a plan B place in mind if the SHTF

 

[psneeld]

But they should.
Every time we anchor we do so to be in a position to be good in 50+ knots from any direction
Always have a "weather eye" open
And always have a plan B place in mind if the SHTF

Of course it depends on where you are...but for the East coast of the US....everything is really predicted pretty well.

Seasons usually dictate as well as highs and lows as to stability or instability.

As I said, often my life depended on it for work and I know what I know.

So no, there are nights where I can bet the ranch on windspeeds below a number and if really in doubt, pick a suitable anchorage that even if the wind does pipe up....I will still be OK with whatever level I am expecting. If still unsure then I rig for the worst or head for a marina.

Again, that all works for me and where I predominantly boat. So no.... rigging every night for the worst isn't in my book of tricks because I don't have to.... till I do.

Do whatever you want.....I plan to and sleep like a rock ......unless the wind is really up and then all the gear in the world still depends on whether the anchor is truly set or was set good enough for the moment you felt it was. So its then I sleep with the right gear set and one eye and ear open anyway.

 

[Simi 60]

Weather is predicted well in Australia as well but it's not like you change anchors* for different conditions and the chain his already in the locker so why not use it?
Our primary anchor is our Armageddon anchor, why would you want to anchor with anything less?

* I do see Americans in particular have anchor collections onboard so maybe they do?

All that's involved for us to anchor for extreme conditions is drop the anchor and run out 5+:1 (50m is our first mark) scope and use our standard 20mm 3strand nylon snubber - that has held us in 80+.

These days if a storm comes through at night I roll over and keep sleeping, if I wake up at all

 

[psneeld]

I use plenty of scope and a snubber and oversized Manson Supreme every time as that's what is at my bow all the time..it just might be that snubbers would be upsized or doubled if I was expecting heavy weather.

I just disagree that if I know its going to be a placid night, I don't have to do extra work that is claimed to not exist.

 

[rslifkin]

I also use my oversized Rocna Vulcan as my primary in any conditions. But the weather forecast, knowing how accurate the local forecasts are, what sudden weather the area may be prone to, etc. all drives my decision on where I'm comfortable anchoring, minimum scope I'm comfortable with (which makes a difference in where we might fit, particularly in deeper water where swing circles can get rather large), and what I use for a snubber if I'm not into the rope portion of my rode. With the potential for heavier weather, I'll go for a thicker, longer snubber than I'd use in light weather (where I'd worry about the long snubber ending up hitting the bottom, being harder to rig, etc.)


I never assume that calm conditions will truly be calm, but if it's unlikely that we'll see more than 10 kts and I'm prepped to be comfortable in 30+, I don't worry at all.

 

[backinblue]

Being weather freak myself, I have grown jaded about forecasts. Anything but the most obvious is usually wrong.

Agreed! Late last season I was moving my boat a few miles to the marina where it's stored for the winter. Weather was fair and I didn't expect any problems. Checked the marine forecast that was reporting "seas 1 ft. or less". I get out of the harbor, heading to the other one, and it's pretty steady 4 ft. seas, some occasional bigger ones. Not a disaster, been in much worse, but for my size boat 4 ft. is still substantial. Just shook my head and motored on and wondered what was up with that forecast.

 

[Nomad Willy]

No,
I’ve never used a bridal. I’ve always had nylon rodes.
Never felt the need for chain other than “a few feet” as Chapman says in his books.
And I always make my anchor line fast to a big stout cleat.
No need for a snubber either.
And no chain noise.

 

[GoldenDawn]

We use a 3-strand nylon bridle, about 10' lengths to thimbles, then to the chain hook. The bridle eliminates most of chain noise which is otherwise amplified by the bow pulpit. The down side is that to let out more chain, I have to pull in the chain to remove the chain hook, then let out chain and re-hook. I haven't had to do this (yet) but when I do, it will likely be crappy conditions and a pain. I think that's the rub on using either a long bridle or snubber.

 

[backinblue]

No,
I’ve never used a bridal. I’ve always had nylon rodes.
Never felt the need for chain other than “a few feet” as Chapman says in his books.
And I always make my anchor line fast to a big stout cleat.
No need for a snubber either.
And no chain noise.

Same here Eric, but many insist that all-chain is the only way. I go by the rule of thumb that a "boat length" of chain is plenty. With the rest being nylon, it makes it real easy to put out more rode in a hurry if needed and there is plenty of stretch when you have 100' or more of line in the water. Weighs a little less too!

 

[psneeld]

That's why I like my single over the pulpit roller...I can let it go , feed out chain and attach another if I have to.

If it's that horrible and I have multiple snubbers or a bridle out and it gets that bad, I would just cut it loose and rerig.

But that's why I like a hitch tied to the chain over a hook . If I let my cheapo snubber go big deal, but when I retrieve as conditions warrant, I just take it in and untie it like normal. I wouldn't use a snubber as long as my boat, so prop fouling is unlikely.