Anchoring Technique - Three Questions

[jhance]

1. I see a lot of boaters come into an anchorage, drop what seems to be no more than 50'-60' of all chain or chain/rope combo in ~20' of water and not really set their anchor at all. They seem to call it a day after backing down on it at idle at best with no real effort to set the anchor. What am I missing? How can someone sleep without setting their anchor? OK maybe they are relying on 50' of chain, but why do most people seem to not really set their anchor? Thank you for the courtesy of a short scope, but why not set your anchor at 5:1 properly, then decrease your scope after anchor is set?

2. I have a Camano Troll 31' w/ 200hp Volvp Penta TAMD41P-A. Idle is maybe 800 RPM, Max is 3800 RPM. At what RPM might you all recommend in reverse to set the anchor?

3. When I drop my anchor in any wind, the bow of my boat immediately blows off course and wants to be downwind. While I am paying out rode in reverse, my options to keep the bow pointing toward the wind are A. via FWD rudder/power and/or bow thruster, B. let the rode straighten the bow as I am reversing, or C. Just pay out all the rode even if the bow is sideways. All of these options have problems: A. constantly on the thruster or having to stop making reverse way for power/rudder adjust; B. Rode can straighten the bow, but I am concerned about pulling on the anchor before proper scope has been reached. My fear is that the anchor won't dig in with only a 1:1 or 2:1 scope, when I start letting the rode straighten the bow, and may get fouled with seaweed/other and make it ultimately harder to dig in even when proper scope is reached. Maybe coincidence, but each time I have tried this technique, my anchor never sets; C. Strain in the rope as it rubs improperly off the roller. Suggestions please!

 

[rslifkin]

Personally, if I'm going to anchor at short scope, I'm going to set it at that scope. If I can't set it at 3:1, how will I know it'll reset at that scope if needed?

With my 340hp twins, I generally set at idle until we confirm there's no boat motion, then increase to 900 - 1000 rpm for 30 seconds or so. Even with both engines just idling in reverse there's enough tension on the rode that I can't pull upward on it at all.

If it's windy, I just let the boat blow sideways as I drop and only worry about it if I can't deploy fast enough to keep up with the motion and keep some slack in the rode. I worry about straightening the boat out after I'm done deploying and have the rode secured, or just let the bow come up into the wind as the boat blows down on the deployed rode.

 

[jhance]

But if you are at 1:1 or 2:1 and now sideways, and you pull on the rode to straighten the bow, your anchor isn't going to set, and in any weed you may end up with a fouled tip of balled-up weed on your anchor that now has an even harder time setting even once you get to your preferred scope.... ?

Personally, if I'm going to anchor at short scope, I'm going to set it at that scope. If I can't set it at 3:1, how will I know it'll reset at that scope if needed?

With my 340hp twins, I generally set at idle until we confirm there's no boat motion, then increase to 900 - 1000 rpm for 30 seconds or so. Even with both engines just idling in reverse there's enough tension on the rode that I can't pull upward on it at all.

If it's windy, I just let the boat blow sideways as I drop and only worry about it if I can't deploy fast enough to keep up with the motion and keep some slack in the rode. I worry about straightening the boat out after I'm done deploying and have the rode secured, or just let the bow come up into the wind as the boat blows down on the deployed rode.

 

[Simi 60]

1. I see a lot of boaters come into an anchorage, drop what seems to be no more than 50'-60' of all chain or chain/rope combo in ~20' of water and not really set their anchor at all. They seem to call it a day after backing down on it at idle at best with no real effort to set the anchor. What am I missing? How can someone sleep without setting their anchor? OK maybe they are relying on 50' of chain, but why do most people seem to not really set their anchor? Thank you for the courtesy of a short scope, but why not set your anchor at 5:1 properly, then decrease your scope after anchor is set?

!

Maybe they have a decent anchor?

In 7 years of full time cruising we have set our anchor once and won't do it again.
Instant set and near fell over with 20mm nylon snubber loudly protesting.

Our usual method is come up into wind or current
Drop anchor , drop anchor mark on OpenCPN and spool chain out to first mark of 40m
Get snubber on before the wind or current has her at stretch
Set 60m anchor alarm
Pour adult beverage.

Hasn't failed us yet.

Add: but we do have a lot of weight and high windage to do that set.

 

[ksanders]

No matter where I am I roll out approx 6-7:1 and set my anchor at idle.

There have been way too many nights I experience a un forecast wind that makes me glad to have the anchor out in the north 40

The only time I have dragged was a night at San Evaristo in the Sea of Cortez and I set then shortened to 3-1 or so and the wind came up, and changed direction.

I wont make that mistake again.

 

[BroadCove]

I'm with Simi. I haven't anchored out near as much, but I have plenty, and use the same technique: come up into wind or current, drop anchor, mark, pay out sufficient chain (usually 7:1), set snubber, leave engines on while I attend to other tasks, confirm I'm not dragging, turn off engines and relax.

On a previous boat I used to back down but I found it unnecessary and in some cases counter productive.

 

[jhance]

Interesting to hear some of you don't actively set as well. I mean, I can see how it may not be necessary if you are ON the boat, and stay on the boat, with an anchor alarm set, but are you telling me you still don't set the anchor and then get off your boat overnight or even for many hours? You hope the anchor sets on it's own instead of in a controlled manner by yourself? I realize the anchor does this at any wind/current shift, but the concept seems crazy to me. Maybe I just haven't done it enough and I'm over thinking it

 

[Lepke]

I suppose it depends on the boat and owners experience, but I have no problem getting my anchor to set while reversing at idle. Same with ships. I didn't light off another boiler to set the anchor.

The scope rule of thumb I learned was 4:1 for chain and 7:1 for cable (not your typical yacht line).

 

[fgarriso]

We have had the anchor drag once. It was during a gale that we had 40-50 knots wind with a Danforth anchor. I found that it wasn't heavy enough. we had 200' of 3/8 chain,

Now on our LRC we have a 178 lb claw anchor with 400 ft of 7/16 HT chain, I can set the anchor in 20 ft. of water with 100 ft of chain. turn on the anchor alarm and go to sleep. If we expect wind, I will connect the bridle to stop the chain shock.

 

[Simi 60]

, but are you telling me you still don't set the anchor and then get off your boat overnight or even for many hours?

We have range rings that show on OpenCPN when we set the anchor watch.
That and "track" shows a clear track of swing that confirms set.
And when that's confirmed after about an hour we will go ashore, but still only if conditions are suitable for tender in and out and never for overnight, where would we sleep?

We have held through 80+ knots, multiple 50+ knot and been through more 40+ knot blows than I can remember, I don't even wake up for them anymore.
This year we spent over a week in a coral lagoon well offshore in 40+ knots simply because we could.
40 is the new 20.

 

[psneeld]

Some people think every anchoring situation requires the same set of actions and gear.

I personally don't and have no problem adjusting my technique and gear.

In open anchorages and uncertain weather, sure lots of scope and I may do a test pull (different than a set).... my Manson Supreme set first time in all but one situation (soupy mud so that required finding better bottom, not a power set) over hundreds (?) of anchorings.

In good tight anchorages with good bottoms and mild weather, I usually went down to 5:1, then pulled in a bit shorter after a long soak and some natural pressure on the anchor if I needed to due to obstructions, shallows or other boats.

The only reason I can think of to do a power set once you know your anchor would be because the rode never pulled tight at least once because of no/too little wind or current.

 

[Don L]

Reading this thread is why regardless of the "rules" of anchorages there is really 1 to keep in mind:

He who is the most uncomfortable needs to move first.

You come into an anchorage and try to figure out where to drop anchor among the 7:1 to guys and the 3:1 guys, the all chain verse rope rode guys, the boats that set the anchor and the ones that dropped and headed right to the bar. All while you are getting the chicken wind stare like you are a terrorist.

 

[Flatswing]

Some people think every anchoring situation requires the same set of actions and gear.
I personally don't and have no problem adjusting my technique and gear. my Manson Supreme set first time in all but one situation (soupy mud so that required finding better bottom, not a power set) over hundreds (?) of …

The only reason I can think of to do a power set once you know your anchor would be because the rode never pulled tight at least once because of no/too little wind or current.

Agree, our experience with a Spade, is exactly the same. Only 1 time it never set (in soupy bottom conditions in Daytona Beach surprisingly).
We typically anchor in brisk reversing currents, so you have to trust your anchor to set/reset. As Simi described, in sporty conditions, you can lose your balance once the chain/snubber slack takes up. Our GPS Track on our anchor watch shows a “snow angel “ pattern since our high bow causes the boat to sail back and forth with gusts.

I think we all understand the OP’s concerns which are valid. For us, repetition over the years built trust with our equipment, technique (or lack therof), and our ability to anticipate problems anchoring. Now, instead of constantly worrying about anchor dragging, we are relaxed, only getting up at night to check position during major storms or wind shifts, since they usually wake us anyway.

 

[mvweebles]

There are strong opinions between the power-set camp and the dump-and-forget camp. Both sides are entrenched and frankly, they talk past each other.

I am firmly in the power set camp and do not understand the no-set approach. To my mind, exceptions to power-set are few. While I've never anchored in soupy mud, it makes sense to delay a set and let an anchor soak while it works its way through the goop. But I'd still want to give it a set after a while. The biggest variable for me is scope which varies mostly on water depth, expected conditions, and how crowded an anchorage is. For my tiny 75hp Perkins, I typically bring the RPMs up to around 1000 and hold it for 15 seconds or so until I can verify I'm not dragging. I might go longer if there are other issues such as expected weather.

A story. For golfers in the crowd, you've probably watched the AT&T ProAm at Pebble Beach CA and noticed s bunch of boats anchored off Stillwater Cove. It affords very modest protection from typical northerly weather patterns. A few miles to the south is Whalers Cove which is shown as an anchorage with decent protection from uncommon southerly weather. If a boat were to use the drop-and-forget technique, they'd be at severe risk. Best I can tell is that the bottom resembles a concrete tarmac.

Left untethered, a boat will lay more or less broadside to the wind. It's why boats 'sail' at anchor and why you're confounded a bit

Peter

 

[rslifkin]

But if you are at 1:1 or 2:1 and now sideways, and you pull on the rode to straighten the bow, your anchor isn't going to set, and in any weed you may end up with a fouled tip of balled-up weed on your anchor that now has an even harder time setting even once you get to your preferred scope.... ?

I just keep deploying as I'm blowing sideways and don't allow the rode to go tight and pull the bow into the wind until I have the full desired scope out. Pulling on the anchor before you're ready to set it doesn't work well, as you mentioned.

 

[O C Diver]

As others have mentioned, do what works for you. If your boat is on the lighter side, it's probably more likely you may need to set the anchor, more so if using an older style anchor with a lesser reputation.

I tend to be in the 7:1 (unless deeper water) crowd, all chain, and let the anchor set itself. However, know where you're anchoring. Currently I'm in Lake Superior where some areas have rock ledges with a covering of sand or mud. It's not difficult to find notches that will hold regardless of how hard you think you're setting the anchor. When the wind changes, the sand or mud covering is insufficient to keep it from dragging. In situations like this, it's helpful to have ample room to drag in all directions and lots of scope (chain on the bottom) to minimize (or eliminate) your boats drift. Last night, 5 of us were anchored in a line in the lee of an island. At 500' apart, anyone dragging wasn't going to be a problem.

Ted

 

[rslifkin]

In my mind, a power set isn't really to test the anchor, it's to test the bottom. I want to make sure I didn't drop the anchor on something stupid that prevents it from setting. But if it sets nicely in the available bottom, then I can be confident it will behave and reset if needed. Of course there are edge cases like the silt over rock bottom mentioned above.

 

[psneeld]

Well I am neither the power set or the dump and forget.

Sounds a lot like the all or nothing mentality that has blossomed in so many ways of life in discussions.

Lots of folks who KNOW what the are doing may not power set and actually may think though everything way further than many power setters...I know I do. There are lots of "it depends' situations, but not power setting along the ACIW is pretty common with me.

I will not write books worth of advice here but give readers options to explore further.... if they stick with what is written in just a few books, magazines and internet threads...they can be lead astray in either direction.

So while there "seems" to be 2 methods..... neither works if done incorrectly and takes work and thought to do correctly.

 

[Hippocampus]

Have found all the current next gens take a while to work. Especially in loose mud where they don’t do as well as a fortress or danforth. We avoid marinas as well much prefer the quality of life at anchor.
Think every situation is different and should be approached differently. Rigid dogmatic thinking about anything has no place on a boat.
If light air or no wind and no or light current will let out one and half the depth and then with short bursts of idle lay out the chain to 5:1 in the direction I think we will remain at.
If heavier air or current just drift back.my boat drifts sideways at times so just wait it out. She does sort herself out eventually.
Unless I’m on perfect packed mud or sand leave off a set with the motor and allow time for the anchor to naturally set. See more people pull out a perfectly good set by backing down too soon or too hard.
However if I expect weather or nervous at all I do use the engine before sleep or leaving the boat. The Cummins has a low (600rpm) and a fast (900rpm) idle. Use the 600 for ~5minutes at least then the 900. May go higher after that to match the expected weather. Never want the anchor alarm waking me up. I need my beauty sleep. Have been known to turn the engine back on before going to sleep or leaving for the day to check set.
The next gens work better and better the longer they are in but don’t think you get that much more by going 10:1 than 7:1. In fact have been in 40+ with much higher gusts for days and days at 5:1 without troubles. But at least 7:1 maybe justified if you have the room and a blow is expected. For decades now will only use all chain. Maybe different with line. Use double snubbers 100% of the time. Even when backing down to check set. Avoid stressing the windlass as much as I can. It is only used when the few feet in front of it is up and down. So snubbers are out before checking the set.
Except for the very, very rare lunch hook situation avoid anything lower than 5:1. Weather predictions are still wrong often enough as to justify 5:1 as the go to in my humble opinion. Since going to the nextgens when they first came out except for mud soup they’ve done remarkably well. Less drags than my digits and I’ve not needed my toes. Drags have been mud on rock ledge and soup when you think you’re ok but you’re not. You can get initially fooled if not careful. All have been picked up before sleep or leaving and it’s here that backing down has been helpful.
Think pick your antidote when you pick your poison. Take a hybrid approach which has worked well for us.

 

[mvweebles]

Lots of folks who KNOW what the are doing may not power set and actually may think though everything way further than many power setters...I know I do..

How do you know your anchor is set if you don't challenge it a bit with a power-set? Dive on it? Hope for the best? Just setting a lunch hook and it doesn't matter?

Curious minds want to know....

Peter

 

[twistedtree]

In my mind, a power set isn't really to test the anchor, it's to test the bottom. I want to make sure I didn't drop the anchor on something stupid that prevents it from setting. But if it sets nicely in the available bottom, then I can be confident it will behave and reset if needed. Of course there are edge cases like the silt over rock bottom mentioned above.

I see it this way too. Reversing current/wind is a reality and you have to be able to count on your anchor to self-set. But power-setting it the first time builds confidence that you have a strong hold, and that goes a long way when the wind builds up and/or changes direction. It also ensures that your rode is pulled tight, and that matters if you set some sort of anchor alarm. I always set an anchor alarm circle that is a bit larger than my swing radius, but you don't really know you radius until the anchor is set and the rode is pulled right. There have been times when I though I was dragging, but it was really just the chain pulling out slack.

 

[koliver]

With our grandkids aboard, we entered a favourite anchorage with the expectation of a 3 hour stay. Tide at 0.0m, depth 20ft. Princess cove on Wallace has chains along the SW shore but not along the NE. There were a few boats on those chains , so I chose my position with them in mind. Where I chose was about 200 ft wide, so, to be clear of the anchors of those there before me, I set about 60ft from the farthur side. I dropped as we were drifting down the length of the inlet, slowing the release of my chain once enough was out to reach the bottom, stopping at about 2:1, then waiting until the boat was facing back towards the entrance. I let out another 10' as the tide rose, then another 10' as it rose some more. We spent that few hours enjoying the place.

Along came a pair of boaters travelling together. One, a 40' power boat, selected one of the chains, positioned his boat where I thought would be a great position to end up in, but dropped his anchor right there, 2 boat lengths from the shore. Wife on the bow yelled that there was 50' out. He, at the upper helm, happy with that. The second boat took first guy's line to shore and tied to the chain, then rafted on and all left the boats for some shore time.

When another boater arrived to take the next available chain, he anchored out in the middle, and backed into a good place, rowed his shore line to the chain and was very secure, though if he was staying, in a position that was vulnerable to the release of the poorly anchored boat. By the time we left the tide had risen 8' or so.

As we were raising ours, up came the chain of a boat we had not considered to be in a competing position, as we were only 60' from the far shore, but there it was, raised by our anchor as it came out of the water. We were far enough from him that not even any shouting occurred, he just watched me unhook his chain from my anchor, then pulled in some of that excess.

There you have different anchoring styles. 1; totally inadequate, 2; just right, and 3; overkill.

In these benign conditions there is no danger that anyone could be hurt, or even that any damage might occur, but if the weather turned nasty it would be a different story.

 

[Hippocampus]

BTW think all the formal anchor tests can be misleading. They don’t reproduce what you experience cruising. Shortly aft being dropped a fortress with its thin blades will dig and dig deeper and deeper. Holding with improve rapidly in some conditions like good sand. So may benefit from a judicious back down done gradually and no heavy hand shortly after being dropped.

Any of the roll bar anchors are subject to troubles and even may need resets if in reversing currents or winds. More motivated to increase scope for weather in that situation. Also all the nextgens do better with time. At a new island or cruising grounds might stay for a week or three. What I feel I need to do changes the longer the anchor has been down. Have more trust in a Spade or Vulcan that’s been down in wind or current for a week plus so not as motivated as much to let out more chain for weather.
Be flexible. It’s not what do you? It’s what do you do when……?

 

[twistedtree]

I just keep deploying as I'm blowing sideways and don't allow the rode to go tight and pull the bow into the wind until I have the full desired scope out. Pulling on the anchor before you're ready to set it doesn't work well, as you mentioned.

Same here. I stop and let the chain straighten the boat only once I have a reasonable ratio out. My windless runs at about 50' per minute which is 0.5kts, so I just need to keep my drift below that. I'm usually drifting back at more like 0.2 kts.

 

[O C Diver]

How do you know your anchor is set if you don't challenge it a bit with a power-set? Dive on it? Hope for the best? Just setting a lunch hook and it doesn't matter?

Curious minds want to know....

Peter

How do you know your anchor is set as opposed to hung on an object just below the surface of the seabed?

Ted

 

[Hippocampus]

Same here. I stop and let the chain straighten the boat only once I have a reasonable ratio out. My windless runs at about 50' per minute which is 0.5kts, so I just need to keep my drift below that. I'm usually drifting back at more like 0.2 kts.

Wife doesn’t like drifting back sideways. So sometimes use the thrusters to straighten out. Don’t think that puts much load on the rode. Just saying. Wish I had a good easy way to do a riding sail. Oh well…..

 

[psneeld]

I don't know why some people experiences differ so wildly from others.

No matter what anchor you buy, use it, get experience with it and don't believe anyone else.

It's you and you boat and anchor that matter and react the way you do things.

Following any set procedure will not guarantee you never will drag or hit anything or not go aground.

Picking a good anchorage and the proper weather to anchor is probably way more important than the anchor, rode or technique.

So start small, get experience and go from there.

And the smart move if you have the opportunity is to call it quits and head for a marina if the weather goes beyond what you are comfortable with.

 

[rslifkin]

I don't know why some people experiences differ so wildly from others.

No matter what anchor you buy, use it, get experience with it and don't believe anyone else.

It's you and you boat and anchor that matter and react the way you do things.

Following any set procedure will not guarantee you never will drag or hit anything or not go aground.

So start small, get experience and go from there.

Yup, nothing is a guarantee. The goal is just to have reasonable confidence that things are working as well as you can expect them to.

 

[mvweebles]

How do you know your anchor is set as opposed to hung on an object just below the surface of the seabed?

Ted

True, but at least I know I'm stuck on something which is sort of the point for anchoring. And getting stuck on a submerged cable/tree/rock is possible with any technique I suppose.

Peter

 

[psneeld]

Stuck on something is tantamount to "thinking you are secure" when it still could break free at any moment due to more force or a swing.

That why I just let the jerk from no power set (wind or current usually doing the trick) signal the tip is where I want it (no comments please ) and then the decision tree which started hours ago when I selected the anchorage continues. I then think what else needs to be done to see how well the set really is and more importantly (read this one like the anchoring bible) how well the set really "NEEDS TO BE".