First Foray into Marine Radar

[Zetec7]

Hi, folks!
Some here have no doubt read my recent trials and tribulations regarding a major cooling issue (eventually traced to a large oyster growing & folding over a cooling hose in the leg). I believe I have that one fixed ($$$$ later).

Now, I have been given an opportunity to add a (used) radar to my boat! This is something I've always wanted, as fog can move in very quickly in these parts & render rocks, islands, container ships, deadheads, etc. absolutely invisible. The GPS works great for navigation, but it doesn't see any of those hazards!

My 88-year-old mother wants to buy me a used Furuno 1621 setup that's on consignment at my marina's chandler. It appears to be complete, is purported to work great (replaced by a higher-end navigation suite or something), includes the radome, LCD monochrome display, cables, original manual, etc., all for the princely sum of $250 CDN.

Of course, I would love to have a newer, complete navigation suite, but for the foreseeable future, nothing else will be within my reach. So, it's this or nothing....

I've done a bunch of reading on this unit (including general stuff here on the forum), and the general reviews are very good. It has a few bells & whistles (most of which I'd probably never even use), but it's a fairly basic unit, which is fine for me.

My boat is a 28' Cooper Yachts Prowler, so the 15" radome is a reasonable size for the boat.

My thinking is to mount it to the front of the command bridge, probably on a 5' aluminum pole with TIG-welded baseplates, and mount the display on the dashboard on the command bridge. I almost always drive from up there, as visibility is vastly better than from the lower station.

My thinking is that if the radome is that high up (roughly 12' above the water, and a couple of feet above my head) it should give a reasonable compromise in range, sensitivity, and obstruction on the boat (still need to get around onboard, and it's not a big boat). I figure that when I'm seated (which I would have to be to read the display) the antenna is well above me, so I shouldn't be subject to any radiation.

I realize that the mounting plate will have to be angled down somewhat toward the bow, as the bow rises several degrees when she's on the plane.

Just trying to get ideas, thoughts, etc. here.

Opinions?

 

[Barabus]

Hard to go wrong for $250cnd assuming it works. You could temp wire it to see if she powers up, etc before the full install.

 

[boomerang]

Hey Zetec,
The Furuno 1621 first version used a 1.5kw parabolic antenna & yellowish LCD screen. I think the range was only 8 miles. The MkII was marginally better and they upped the range to 16 miles, IIRC. It's better than no radar but honestly, it didn't do a great job of painting targets ,mainly because of the tiny antenna and low pixel-count screen. For $250 you can get the feel for what a radar does and when you're serious, I would upgrade to something a little better for navigation.
As mentioned above, the antenna cable simply plugs into the antenna so I would certainly fire it up and make sure it works before you go to the trouble of installing it.
Good luck with everything!

 

[Seevee]

Zetek7,


There's a reason it's so cheap. I could argue strongly not to buy used electronics, with rare exception.


Gut feeling, it's worthless and probably take a fair amount of time to install.


With the price of a new radar SO cheap (down to $1500), I'd say, bite the bullet and get something that's current and going to last and you can depend on.


I gave my old radar away, and a display to go with it. The guy did get it working but the image was so poor it wasn't worth it.

 

[mvweebles]

I did a quick Google search and found 1621 new for $850 usd. For $250 can, I suppose it's worth the time and effort, but I'm not sure you'll get much utility out of it. The LED screens were transitional technology and not very useful. Maybe make a bully offer at a significant discount just to get your install setup and then buy a modern RADAR in a year or two when you can afford. I doubt there are many offers on this radar set

Good luck regardless. And I admire your desire. If you get an older radar, check out Kevin Monahans "Radar Book" which was written when these types of radar technology were in use

Peter

 

[Zetec7]

Thanks, folks!

Yeah, my plan is to try to wire it up (probably to my car, in the marina parking lot, with the radome sitting on the roof) as that's easier than trying to wire it up on the boat.

With luck, the display will light up & the radome will start emitting (apparently it takes 90 seconds for this to start). If all that happens, I think I'll pull the trigger.

Even as parts, it appears to be worth a lot more than that, so I don't think there's anything to lose.

Anything more is waaay out of my budget (or my elderly mother's budget), so I think it's a good starting point. Literally, it's this or nothing at all for a few years (COVID, you know...). It's not likely to see a lot of use, as our cruising is generally very short range (and never at night), so foggy conditions are probably the only time it would get used.

 

[boomerang]

Now I'm reaching way back in my memory but I think that model had a built-in simulator which would be helpful for somebody like yourself with little radar experience. Pressing and holding both left < & right> (or the up & down...try both) at the same time on the keypad will open the simulator. That way you could get an idea of what targets would look like on your particular radar.

 

[Comodave]

If it works, for $250, why not. It may not be the best but it is better than nothing. Learn how it works when it is clear so you know what things look like. Good luck.

 

[Marco Flamingo]

mount the display on the dashboard on the command bridge. I almost always drive from up there, as visibility is vastly better than from the lower station.

Is that where you will be in the fog or at night when the radar is most useful?

 

[Zetec7]

Yes - in over 20 years with this boat, I've only ever driven it from the lower station once. The bow is high enough that I can't see anything within a hundred yards or so from the lower station....

 

[Zetec7]

Well, I bought it. It's missing the power cable (rats!! But they are available, if hard to find), so my girlfriend (who is a hard-core negotiator) managed to get it for $100 total. It looks to be in fantastic condition, with no marks or fading on the display or radome, and the cable-in seals are intact with no signs of corrosion on the mounting hardware, etc.


Now to try to acquire a power cable (hopefully a used one, to save some money in the event that it doesn't work). I've discovered that it appears the same power cable (3-pin) was used by all kinds of Furuno items, like chart plotters, depth sounders, and all of the smaller radars (although they used different part numbers, the photos of the cables are identical), so that might help. Keeping my fingers crossed that I find one, and everything works....

 

[boomerang]

A lot of the later model Furuno radars use a 3-pin power cable but the pin sizes are different. Just so you're aware.
I'm wishing you had posted earlier that the radar wasn't complete and was minus a power cable and antenna cable! I know you're excited about the prospect of having a radar on your boat but try not to get carried away! It's a 25 year old piece of equipment, remember.

 

[boomerang]

Wait a sec! I reread your posts. Your girlfriend negotiated the price of the radar down to $100? That included the display, the antenna AND the radar cable? You (she) did OK! Now you can take her out to dinner with the $$ she saved you! $100 for a (an almost complete) radar system seems like an ok deal.

 

[HiDHo]

Ask the seller to power it up to access the menu, there you should find hours of use. That might give you a better idea if you want to chance buying it.
The Manatee came with a open array Furuno older than the one your considering. The PO had bought it at a marine flea market and never installed it because it didn’t come with a power cord. I ordered one for $42 and found out it only had 200 hours of use, it worked great for 7 years. When it quit no replacement parts available so I replaced it with a new color screen Furuno.

 

[Zetec7]

The seller himself isn't available, just the consignment guy at the chandler. He was annoyed that the seller didn't provide the power cable (even though the consignment dealer said he didn't want it unless it had all the cables - he has stacks of chart plotters, sounders, etc. on consignment without cords, and he can't sell them) so he let us know he would consider "offers". My girlfriend (who could sell sand to desert dwellers) offered $100, then talked the consignment dealer into taking it!
No possibility of testing it out before sale, though, particularly as there's no power cable, and it's a no-returns sale.


Power cables are available, but they run nearly $200 CDN. I found one on Ebay for only $48 USD....plus $271 shipping!!!

My girlfriend, bless her heart, then remembered a Furuno service place about 100 miles north of me that's been around for years. I phoned them, they had a used cable (used in a showroom display, never been on a boat) for $40 CDN, returnable if the radar doesn't work. Better yet, he's coming all the way down to my town next week for a service call, and is bringing the cable with him - free delivery!!


Keep your fingers crossed for me!

 

[Olebird]

Good luck with your new radar -- I hope you find it useful. Hard to beat the deal. When you test it, be sure to check the display in full sun - some of those LCD screens wash out very quickly. I have an older Garmin 545 gpsmap and its very hard to see in the day time. My experience with radar is that it takes a lot of time to learn to interpret what you are looking at.

 

[Zetec7]

Still waiting for my power cable to be delivered before I can test it....

 

[Comodave]

What do they say, a watched pot never boils...

 

[Zetec7]

Well, I got to test out my Furuno 1621 today, although I haven't rigged up a stanchion for the boat yet, as I wanted to make sure everything worked first.


I rigged up a platform to sit on my SUV's roof, drove onto a local spit, parked facing the ocean, and fired it up.
Wow, everything worked!! It was tracking small boats, ships, etc., as well as plotting land masses I couldn't see from where I was sitting.


Now I have to build the stanchion, which I plan on putting on the front of the command bridge. I'm hoping to use stainless rather than aluminum, because salt water, electricity, and aluminum together seems to be a bad combination for electrolysis.

 

[Comodave]

Just a thought about mounting the radome on the front of the bridge brow, we had one mounted there on a previous boat by the PO. It had a significant dead spot to the stern. And some say that the radar emissions could be hazardous to the health of a couple of things very personal, maybe yes maybe no. Glad it is working for you. Every now and then you win one!

 

[syjos]

Well, I got to test out my Furuno 1621 today, although I haven't rigged up a stanchion for the boat yet, as I wanted to make sure everything worked first.


I rigged up a platform to sit on my SUV's roof, drove onto a local spit, parked facing the ocean, and fired it up.
Wow, everything worked!! It was tracking small boats, ships, etc., as well as plotting land masses I couldn't see from where I was sitting.

That's how I test radars I buy for myself and for resale.

You got a good deal for $140. Last 1621 I sold went for $445 on eBay.

There is nothing wrong with buying a used radar. My Furuno 1830 is a late 1980's vintage that came on Sandpiper. The only repair in 20 years is the rotation motor. I bought a new Furuno 1835 for a second radar a few years ago and after using it for one summer, I removed it and sold it because it did not work as well as the 30 year old 1830.

For a second radar, I bought a used 8 year old, 11 Kw Furuno FRS 1100 open array for $1,300. The 11 Kw commercial radar sold for $20K when new! I spent $130 for Furuno in Camas, WA to fine tune it and it has been working great.

I buy and sell 5 to 10 used radars per year on average. Lots of boatowners replacing their perfectly fine radars for the latest - greatest and an equal number of boaters looking for a good used unit. By comparison, I sell 2 to 5 new radars in a year.

Other than the latest bells and whistles and easier operation, older radars pick up targets just as well as the new units. Older radar antennas like my 1830 have actual metal horn shaped antennas in the dome which is more sensitive at transmitting and receiving. Most new radars have flat plate antennas with the electronics for sending and receiving on the face of the flat plate. They are getting better.

 

[boatpoker]

I realize that the mounting plate will have to be angled down somewhat toward the bow, as the bow rises several degrees when she's on the plane.

That doesn't make sense to me. When you really need radar, you certainly won't be on plane.

 

[Zetec7]

My plan is to mount it high enough that we're below the radiated level, although I don't want it so high that it misses near-in targets. Everything aft will be well below (several feet below) the level of the base of the radome, so I hope that will work.

The entire system cost me $140 CDN (or about $100 USD), so it's a good deal, I think. I took the cover off the radome & had a look inside. Everything in there looks absolutely brand new - no corrosion, no dirt, no dust. Another pleasant surprise is that it's not one of the radomes with belt drive (apparently a fairly common source of problems) - this one is direct-gear-drive. When it's turning it's silent, and there's no vibration at all on the shell or mount.

Now all I have to do is learn how to run it!!

 

[Greg S]

To learn how to use it, as already stated on here, Kevin Monahans "Radar Book".
He is from the Victoria, or South Island area. The book is very good, easy to understand and read. It is the book the Canadian Power Squadron has used to produce the new RADAR course.

 

[twistedtree]

That doesn't make sense to me. When you really need radar, you certainly won't be on plane.

When you angle it down, you don't lose visibility when not on plane, at least if you do it right. A radar can typically see about 12 degrees up and 12 degrees down from horizontal. Without the angle, it's very common for boats on plane, or coming up onto plane, to be angled up more than the 12 deg that the radar can see. The wedge takes a away a little of the upward visibility and adds it to the downward visibility.

 

[rgano]

Well, I got to test out my Furuno 1621 today, although I haven't rigged up a stanchion for the boat yet, as I wanted to make sure everything worked first.


I rigged up a platform to sit on my SUV's roof, drove onto a local spit, parked facing the ocean, and fired it up.
Wow, everything worked!! It was tracking small boats, ships, etc., as well as plotting land masses I couldn't see from where I was sitting.


Now I have to build the stanchion, which I plan on putting on the front of the command bridge. I'm hoping to use stainless rather than aluminum, because salt water, electricity, and aluminum together seems to be a bad combination for electrolysis.

Here's what mine looked like. Not being a believer in trying to use a radar from the flying bridge where visibility to check targets could be nil when fog particles adhere to the isinglass of the enclosure, my display was mounted below where I had windshield wipers and fog horn controls, etc. The mounting gave the radar clearance over the FB windscreen meaning I had pretty good radar visibility astern. No one was up there when the radar was transmitting; that's what the standby button was for on the off chance a trip up there was necessary. I never like that Garmin and now sport a 15 year old bullet proof Furuno.

 

[rgano]

When you angle it down, you don't lose visibility when not on plane, at least if you do it right. A radar can typically see about 12 degrees up and 12 degrees down from horizontal. Without the angle, it's very common for boats on plane, or coming up onto plane, to be angled up more than the 12 deg that the radar can see. The wedge takes a away a little of the upward visibility and adds it to the downward visibility.

My bow rises at the least touch of the throttle from idle. You can see how it is tilted forward in this photo. We always have a fine display even with bow obscuring the horizon before the trim tabs tame it down. And yes, in the open, fairly vacant bay at night with no rain/fog/smoke making things really dicey, we are running 16 MPH with the radar set to less than a mile and appropriate warnings with a pair of 7X50s to my eyes. I shudder at the way my first destroyer captain once had us at 25 knots off San Diego in a pea soup fog. First thing I mounted on my trawler which I had out there for four years was a radar reflector!

 

[syjos]

If the angle of the radar dome is of concern, install the dome on an adjustable angle mount. There are many varieties. Even a motorized angle adjuster.

I've seen installs using a trim tab ram to adjust the radar angle.

 

[Zetec7]

Thanks, folks!! That's some great info there! More to think about, and more options to ponder. It's great stuff!!

 

[psneeld]

When you angle it down, you don't lose visibility when not on plane, at least if you do it right. A radar can typically see about 12 degrees up and 12 degrees down from horizontal. Without the angle, it's very common for boats on plane, or coming up onto plane, to be angled up more than the 12 deg that the radar can see. The wedge takes a away a little of the upward visibility and adds it to the downward visibility.

When installing for a marine electronics firm whe evaluated the type of boat and tilted accordingly.


You never want to loose close in targets and any beam shooting above the horizon is wasted (alowing for some swell or unusual vessel loading).