Big enough for Great Loop?

[Sailor of Fortune]

Any of the Nimble boats would totally be suitable for loop trip. They are small in a big way

 

[O C Diver]

Funny made me laugh, do you have the twin 800 hp or the twin 1200 hp engines in your boat .what are you doing on this forum 2000 hp planning hull boat ,don’t get me wrong nice Boat .I’m skeptical about doing the loop in one , you got any pictures of that boat on the Erie canal ,laugh out loud my twin engine Hatteras burned 27 gallons an hour . does that burn 270 ,I know I’m being sarcastic .I can’t help myself , I thought you were worried about global warming .Maybe you’ll trade it off on a solar powered boat next ,I can’t think of a worse Boat to do the loop ,but to each his own

Really?

Nobody needs to do the Loop. We do it because we want to in a manner or our choosing. Unless you plan to row or sail around, all boats have some amount of a carbon footprint.

Am I a bad person for doing the Loop by myself in my 45' boat?

Ted

 

[Northern Spy]

Personally, I don't think people in small boats should denigrate people in large boats, nor should people in large boats disparage those in small boats. This is recreational boating. Ideally, we are all having fun by our means and preferences.

 

[OldDan1943]

Personally, I don't think people in small boats should denigrate people in large boats, nor should people in large boats disparage those in small boats. This is recreational boating. Ideally, we are all having fun by our means and preferences.

I think we have fallen to nit picking stage.

Do what you wish in your boat no matter the length. Just be comfortable.

Hint: I dont think the Queen Mary is a good boat to do the Loop.
I think we can agree to 'mid 20s to lower 40s'. Draft and air draft are the primary concern.
I could be wrong but, I doubt it.

Oh wait, that's just my opinion.

 

[BandB]

Really?

Nobody needs to do the Loop. We do it because we want to in a manner or our choosing. Unless you plan to row or sail around, all boats have some amount of a carbon footprint.

Am I a bad person for doing the Loop by myself in my 45' boat?

Ted

Wifey B: Bad Diver Oh and you went to Lake Superior.....oh no....

No one needs recreation. Eliminate all boating, all cars that run over 40 mph, all sports, all concerts. Oh, and diving too. :lol:

 

[kthoennes]

This is sure ironic and really amusing - a debate about carbon footprints and hand wringing over environmental effects on a forum of big, gas guzzling boat owners. But then nothing new, just like the celebrities who fly private jets to environmental events where they scold us all for extravagant consumption.

 

[Seevee]

This is sure ironic and really amusing - a debate about carbon footprints and hand wringing over environmental effects on a forum of big, gas guzzling boat owners. But then nothing new, just like the celebrities who fly private jets to environmental events where they scold us all for extravagant consumption.

Absolutely right....


However, I have no problem with either one. Right now there's no way we can get the job done without oil and a carbon footprint. As we make progress on alternate energy we will get rid of dependency on oil... perhaps 100 years to go, maybe.

 

[kthoennes]

Yep, me neither. As extravagant as it is, I can't tell you how much I enjoy that moment when I stand at the helm and ease those throttles down and feel 700 horses way down beneath my feet under the salon floor glide 26,000 pounds of boat out of our slip. Or how much I enjoyed a crossing on the Queen Mary 2 during a savage Atlantic storm some years ago (2011 I think). There's a sublime thrill in quiet power. Sorry Greta Thunberg.

 

[HTMO9]

I am from Europe and I am new to this forum. My wife and I want to do the Great Loop, starting in spring 2023.

We have a European flagged steel boat capable of doing 12 Kts cruise with a range of more than 1.000 NM. After having cruised the Inland waterways and larger rivers in Europe over the last years, we would like to bring our boat (as a deck load on a cargo vessel) to the USA for this adventure.

I am familiar with the draft, airdraft and size restrictions of the Great Loop but still need a lot of advice. We want to devide the Loop into several segments, one segment per season, and return to Europe during winter. I am also familiar with the cruising permit issue, which is manageable IMO.

We want to start the Loop on the East coast at Florida. My first question would be, should we go counter clockwise or clockwise around the Loop?

Second question, would You go via the St. Lawrence River and Welland Canal or via the Hudson River and the Eri Canal.

Thanks in advance for Your answers.

HTMO9

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Welcome aboard.

 

[Fish53]

My "trawler" is 26' and I wouldn't hesitate to do the loop on it, my girlfriend on the other hand may have some objections, I'm sure going to miss her.

 

[Comodave]

I am from Europe and I am new to this forum. My wife and I want to do the Great Loop, starting in spring 2023.

We have a European flagged steel boat capable of doing 12 Kts cruise with a range of more than 1.000 NM. After having cruised the Inland waterways and larger rivers in Europe over the last years, we would like to bring our boat (as a deck load on a cargo vessel) to the USA for this adventure.

I am familiar with the draft, airdraft and size restrictions of the Great Loop but still need a lot of advice. We want to devide the Loop into several segments, one segment per season, and return to Europe during winter. I am also familiar with the cruising permit issue, which is manageable IMO.

We want to start the Loop on the East coast at Florida. My first question would be, should we go counter clockwise or clockwise around the Loop?

Second question, would You go via the St. Lawrence River and Welland Canal or via the Hudson River and the Eri Canal.

Thanks in advance for Your answers.

HTMO9

Welcome aboard. Go counterclockwise so you are not fighting the current on the rivers heading north. I would do the Hudson and Erie Canal route. The Welland is a lot of commercial traffic and I believe you have to have a crew of at least 3 aboard.

 

[Bacchus]

HTMO9
Welcone aboard TF.
I am not a looper but have cruised almost all of the NE portion of the loop several times. Based on my experience and discussions with many loopers over the years.
Counter clockwise for sure and you will be with most of the other loopers. Not many do it clockwise.
There are several route alternatives in the NE. Choosing one means you will likely miss the nice parts of the other alternatives.
If you are already planning on several seasons you can then do a few of the best routes in the NE. Some loopers Complete the full loop and return to the NE to see the routes they bypassed. Some will do as you plan and over Winter the boat and return the next season.
For example
Hudson, to Erie to Oswego & Lk Ont, experience the 1,000 Is region, return to Kingston Ont and do Rideau to Ottawa, Ottawa River to St Lawrence & Montreal, Chambley to Lk Champlain, Champlain Canal back to Albany, over winter there or return to Oneida Lk on Erie & Brewerton for winter.

Next season Oswego canal to Lk Ont, Trent Severn Waterway to Georgian Bay /Lk Huron, North Channel, Lk Huron, Lk Michigan to Chigago and on to the rest of the typical loop...

All above depends on air & water draft so check as part of the planning

My Bacchus website has a cruisingnote section with some info on the area.
The 2019 Georgian Bay cruise has a wealth of info on that section including my planning and comparison of actual to plan and a daily log, blog and track of our cruise.
You are in for a treat. Let me know if you have questions or need assistance when in our neighborhood.

 

[bowball]

Wifey B: And the F65 would be a great loop boat. We did the loop in a Sunseeker Manhattan 65 which was 69'4" vs the 70' 10" of the Fleming 65. Larger boats than those have done the loop.

Probably the F55 is a better fit, but I think about a helmsman 38E or maybe something faster.

Tastes vary and obviously are individual , but that Sunseeker Manhattan, while I’m sure nice in the inside, I just couldn’t have pride of ownership looking at it.

 

[Jeff F]

We want to start the Loop on the East coast at Florida. My first question would be, should we go counter clockwise or clockwise around the Loop?

Second question, would You go via the St. Lawrence River and Welland Canal or via the Hudson River and the Eri Canal.

Welcome. I'd suggest joining the AGLCA if you haven't already.

I've done the Loop in both directions, and also both eastern routes. It sounds like you have the experience and boat capabilities to choose whatever works for you. If you have multiple summers there are a few good itineraries. The Downeast Loop could be one summer's cruise, starting from Lake Ontario or the US east coast. Most Loopers take the Erie Canal. It's pretty ambitious to go from New York to Chicago via the St Lawrence in one summer.

One reason to choose to start counter clockwise is that almost everyone else does. There are several good reasons to go that way if you're leaving Florida in early spring. Community is one, if you want to be part of a larger group. The other is that flooding on the rivers is more common in the spring, and going north is predominantly upstream. I'd let plans for the first summer and layover drive that decision, but either is feasible.

 

[BandB]

Probably the F55 is a better fit, but I think about a helmsman 38E or maybe something faster.

Tastes vary and obviously are individual , but that Sunseeker Manhattan, while I’m sure nice in the inside, I just couldn’t have pride of ownership looking at it.

Wifey B: And here is the new version. Sunseeker Manhattan 68 (actually no longer than the 63 was. lol).

So this one just as bad?

https://www.sunseeker.com/yachts-and-boats/manhattan/manhattan-68

Just wait till you find out what he's thinking. :lol::lol::lol::lol:

 

[bowball]

Wifey B: And here is the new version. Sunseeker Manhattan 68 (actually no longer than the 63 was. lol).

So this one just as bad?

https://www.sunseeker.com/yachts-and-boats/manhattan/manhattan-68

Just wait till you find out what he's thinking. :lol::lol::lol::lol:

Yes, I’m still not a fan. I like classic and proportion, not the “euro” look. I’m sure though it makes great use of its space and lights. Design is quite important to me, even sometimes over functionality. And my boy thinks the med style look is far preferable to my old fashioned trawler look. Many people would agree with him.

But this is Trawler Forum!

 

[rgano]

I have gone up the rivers to the Great Lakes from the Gulf coast, and I would heed Jeff's comments on the spring rush of water. However, if contemplating the clockwise circuit, the waterways where you will be going upstream are the 450 miles of the Tombigbee Waterway (usually quite mild currents) after which it is downstream on the Tennessee and the short part of the Ohio rivers. Then it's 215 miles up the Mississippi where you will likely see the worst head currents. Then up the 336 miles of the Illinoise River which can have a moderate current. With cruise capability of 12 knots, you would have little problems, BUT more current also means more debris. If I had to put up with the threat of debris, I would rather go with the debris than a faster relative speed into it.

 

[Fish53]

Yep, me neither. As extravagant as it is, I can't tell you how much I enjoy that moment when I stand at the helm and ease those throttles down and feel 700 horses way down beneath my feet under the salon floor glide 26,000 pounds of boat out of our slip. Or how much I enjoyed a crossing on the Queen Mary 2 during a savage Atlantic storm some years ago (2011 I think). There's a sublime thrill in quiet power. Sorry Greta Thunberg.

Just a thought but I'm wondering if attitudes like this have contributed to our current problems? Any ideas? Before you ask, yes I just bought a sailboat.

 

[Hippocampus]

Different folks different boats.

Prior cruised sail. No question for blue water passages much to recommend a quality purpose built sailboat for that activity. But as regards footprint non metallic sailboats are made almost entirely of materials derived from oil. Even the sails. Having seen hundreds littering the Caribbean and several areas of the east US coast they aren’t recycled either. Even those that aren’t abandoned become non degradable land fill and ultimately micro pellets in our waters.
Recreational boating isn’t green. Neither sail nor power. Some vessels are less detrimental than others. Perhaps plank on frame wood held together with resorcinol and wood pegs may be best. But even then construction and maintenance releases various VOCs.

 

[BandB]

Yes, I’m still not a fan. I like classic and proportion, not the “euro” look. I’m sure though it makes great use of its space and lights. Design is quite important to me, even sometimes over functionality. And my boy thinks the med style look is far preferable to my old fashioned trawler look. Many people would agree with him.

But this is Trawler Forum!

Wifey B: And you'd think I'd be the one appearance conscious, but I am far more interested in what it will do and hold and all that utility kind of stuff. And, comfort. Oh yes, comfort.

I'm not a fan of it's outward appearance. Just neutral on it.

 

[HTMO9]

Thank You very much for Your first answers!

As far as the technical setup of our boat, we are pretty flexible for almost any route, country and season. The boat has shore power connection for any AC current from 120 Volt to 480 Volt and from 40 Hertz to 70 Hertz and can even accept dirty sinus or DC current up to 48 Volts and 100 Amps. It has an integrated AC and heating system and can even go through ice of up to 6 inches. The only thing, we have to do, is buying the power adaptors for the US and Canadian grid.

We had planned the tenntom waterway system instead of the lower Mississipi anyhow but I was told, that the infrastructure on the whole part of the Loop from Chicago down to Mobile Alabama cannot be compared with the leasure boat facilities her in Europe.

Lack of moorings, no jetties, no nice yacht harbours, no nice restaurants and grocery stores in villages along the big rivers and no refuelling stations for yachts along the canals and rivers. One would need a pretty decent level of autonomy for that part of the Loop. And due to the long distances between suitable stops, there would be very long times on the wheel. My boat has a fairly long range and a autonomy as far as provisions are concerned of about 14 days (watermaker, a lot of dry, cold and frozen storage space). Is it really that bad?

I am having a little problem, gaining info, especially for the leg between the Chicago area and the Mississipi River. I am familiar with the large pushboat convoys, as they are very common in my area too. And as we are not on the rush, we will have no problem, giving them priority on the locks.

As a retired owner of a several shipping companies (I have handed over the businesses to our children) with ocean going vessels and inland waterway cargo vessels, I have a unlimited skipper license for large vessels on the seven seas and most of the European rivers and canals. And as we have a spare cabin for a pilot or a local skipper on our boat, we would not have any problems hiring professional help for parts of that adventure.

Actually, the boat was designed with the Great Loop in mind already. Being within the European size limits, the boat has a min draft of 5 ft and a max. airdraft of 13 ft but not at the same time. I can change the draft with a comprehensive water ballast system. And length and beam are also within the limits of the Great Loop.

Any more specific infos about the Great Loop would be really appriciated. And I do appologize in advance for my limited english, which is not my mother tongue.

HTMO9

 

[rslifkin]

For air draft, if you can fit under a 15'6" bridge, you can take pretty much any route or side trip on the great loop. 5 feet of water draft is marginal for the Canadian canals, but still possible. Shouldn't be much of an issue anywhere else.

The longest stretch you need to cover between fuel stops is a bit over 200 nautical miles I think. There are areas where there aren't a lot of choices of marinas, etc. There are also a few spots where you're likely to be anchored or on a wall with no facilities overnight. But it should never be more than a few days between stops where it's easy to reprovision.

The whole route is pretty well documented and people have done it in far less capable boats (all the way down to pontoon boats and jetskis) with adequate planning.

 

[OldDan1943]

And I do appologize in advance for my limited english, which is not my mother tongue.

HTMO9

Welcome to the group. Dont worry too much about your English. Your written is perfect. It may be a problem with your spoken English, due to the accent.
Once you complete the loop, you might be talking like a native.
Of course, once you return home people may find it difficult to understand you.

 

[Jeff F]

Lack of moorings, no jetties, no nice yacht harbours, no nice restaurants and grocery stores in villages along the big rivers and no refuelling stations for yachts along the canals and rivers. One would need a pretty decent level of autonomy for that part of the Loop. And due to the long distances between suitable stops, there would be very long times on the wheel. My boat has a fairly long range and a autonomy as far as provisions are concerned of about 14 days (watermaker, a lot of dry, cold and frozen storage space). Is it really that bad?

Yes, that's all true. I suspect it's entirely foreign to the European experience.

If this doesn't sound appealing then make it your last leg, or skip it entirely. You don't have to do it unless you want to say you did the Loop. There are lots of alternative cruising areas.

Regarding suitable stopping points, it's largely dependent on your criteria. If you want to get to the next marina or decent restaurant there are some very long stretches. But if you're in a steel boat and exercise good seamanship and good judgement there are endless anchoring opportunities on most of the route. It's largely wilderness and the occasional tow.

I came up from Mobile to Chicago recently, taking my time and mostly traveling solo. I really enjoyed the trip. But I can fully understand why others wouldn't.

I keep a brief travel blog, so if you are interested see
http://boatingadventures.ca/2022/02/12/into-the-rivers/

 

[rgano]

The only part of the river system between Chicago and Mobile I did not enjoy much was going up the 215 miles of the Mississippi in an eight-knot boat which made it impossible to get much more than 50 miles a day. There are only two relatively decent stops in that stretch, one at the side wall of a lock leading off the river and one at a marina composed of old barges. We needed four stops meaning two were iffy at best. If you are downbound with a good current, you could possibly turn your 12-knot cruise into around 16 knots and get it mostly run in one day. It took us four grueling days in hot weather going up. As far as I am concerned, the rest of the rivers are quite civilized but nothing like what I imagine Europe is like. You will luxuriate in the wildness here, but you will never be more than a day or so from a place to moor at some sort of a marina many of which have courtesy cars to allow you to go buy food and supplies. If you wish, send me a private message, and I will send you the Excel spreadsheet I prepared with all sorts of information compiled from multiple sources. Also, explore the USACE (US Army Corps of Engineers) websites with much information on the locks and rivers including scheduled lock repair periods which can throw a large monkey wrench into your plans if you are not paying attention.