Why Move from Sailboat to Trawler?

[Davil1]

Engine failure should be your least concern. It's not a common occurence if you pay attention to maintenance and fuel supply/condition. We all drive vehicles everyday with no backup for an engine failure. Many commerical boats, ferries, etc, run almost continuously with no backup propulsion. And how many people who sail could truly get to anywhere they needed without any use of the engine? Unless you are going to remote places or far offshore, a towing company should be your backup plan.

======================

yes

agree

thank you

 

[O C Diver]

What continues nagging at me is the perceived "safety" of having a mean to maintain propulsion in case of motor failure (sail).

Another way to deal with the dilemma of engine failure is not to go places that put you at high risk, or without a buddy boat. I just passed 34,000 miles without an engine shutdown (touch wood). I consider where I'm going and the risk, should the motor quit. Great risk is probably in the 1 to 5% category. It would be pretty easy to keep it below 1%, but I don't feel it's necessary.

Lastly, with increased age comes the increased risk of a debilitating health incident. One has to wonder which is the greater risk, engine shutdown or body shutdown. Lot to be said for cruising near coastal and inland.

Ted

 

[Don L]

I feel that when thinking going from sail to power that fuel and engine is a given that everyone understands right at start.

 

[mvweebles]

Engine installations on sailboats under 40-42 feet or so tend to be really cramped. Maintenance is difficult and exhaust installation sub-par.

Accessibility to sailboat engines is frequently poor to awful. As an example, I watched a YouTuber with a Pacific Seacraft 40 need a small inspection mirror to replace the impellor on a raw water pump. Sailboats are legendary for ingesting seawater into their engines.

Then, there is challenge of decent engine room sound insulation, which tends to be minimal on many sailboats.

I've heard it said from the owner of a single engine trawler, "If I took care of my engine rhe way many sailors do, I'd want twins too!"

Not all sailboats are bad, and not all trawlers or powerboats are good, but sailors often cite engine failure concerns even considering power. It's a legitimate concern no doubt, but there are layers to the story.

Peter

 

[Davil1]

Lastly, with increased age comes the increased risk of a debilitating health incident. One has to wonder which is the greater risk, engine shutdown or body shutdown. Lot to be said for cruising near coastal and inland.

Ted
=========================================
right on the money
thanks

 

[Blissboat]

As someone with thousands of miles of offshore sailing behind him, and fewer but many more frequent inshore / coastal miles under sail, the case for a trawler-style powerboat includes:

You can go more places that are on the other side of fixed bridges.
You can go more places in shallow water.
You can go when the wind and weather might discourage sailing.
Comparing boats foot-for-foot of boat length, the power vessel yields more usable deck space and room below.

I love sailing with the engine off as much as the next person. But just being on the water, period, is one of life's joys, so anything that expands my choices to experience that is good, in my book.

 

[Davil1]

"Not all sailboats are bad, and not all trawlers or powerboats are good, but sailors often cite engine failure concerns even considering power. It's a legitimate concern no doubt, but there are layers to the story."

thanks

 

[Davil1]

"But just being on the water, period, is one of life's joys, so anything that expands my choices to experience that is good, in my book."

thanks

 

[twistedtree]

Most of this has already been said, but here goes.


First, I enjoy sailing, but enjoy it more for fun than anything else. When it comes to cruising, I would only consider a trawler. Here are some reasons why:


- Come and go as you please without concern for wind. Yes, sail boats have motors too, but if you are going to run a motor, why not have all the other benefits that come with a trawler.


- In practice, sail boats spend a significant portion (majority, from my observations) of their underway time under power. So you are all ready a power boat, but just don't want to admit it.



- Operating in a warm, dry environment is much more comfortable than being bundled up in the cold and wet. This seems to be a big reason why many sailors move to cats.


- Operating without being healed over is sooo much more comfortable. This is yet another reason why many sailors move to cats.


- Much simpler operation. Getting rid of all the sheets, line blocks, jamb cleats, furlers, tracks, booms, polls, stays, and sails is a massive simplification to cruising, and de-cluttering of the boat.


- Have your living space above the water line rather than bellow the waterline. Have windows and a view all the time. This is another reason many sailors switch to cats.


- Have the extra space and comfort of a hull shape built more for comfort rather than trying to squeak out every ounce of performance. You have nothing to prove, so enjoy yourself on your boat.



- In your new-found space, you can have better suited equipment. Like a real generator that is quiet and safe and deployed with a button rather than something screaming on deck that you need to lug around and carry jugs of fuel for.


- Enjoy a fly bridge, a foredeck that isn't obstructed by lines gear and a tender, and a cockpit that you can actually move around in.


People snarf about trawlers being floating condos. I say Yes, exactly. That is the goal. Take your mini home with you along with all the comforts.



More and more sailors have articulated the downsides of traditional cruising sail boats and are moving to cats to address those issues. That brings them to the doorstep of a trawler, and all they need to do is step through the door to complete the journey. To them, skip the cat and just get a trawler.

 

[Don L]

Engine installations on sailboats under 40-42 feet or so tend to be really cramped. Maintenance is difficult and exhaust installation sub-par.

Accessibility to sailboat engines is frequently poor to awful.

Well that fall into the "picking wrong boat" world. My sailboat has removable cover front and back that gives 355 degree access to front/back/sides of the engine. I know nothing after trawler exhaust systems, but my sailboat engine has 3651 hours on it and has never had an exhaust problem, not even a fouled elbow. That is much more than what I see on most trawlers.

Lets try to stay with reasons to consider changing to a trawler and not sailboat trashing please.

 

[Don L]

A lot of owners of old sailboats say the same about "new" 20 year old sailboat designs.

 

[rslifkin]

Well that fall into the "picking wrong boat" world. My sailboat has removable cover front and back that gives 355 degree access to front/back/sides of the engine. I know nothing after trawler exhaust systems, but my sailboat engine has 3651 hours on it and has never had an exhaust problem, not even a fouled elbow. That is much more than what I see on most trawlers.

Lets try to stay with reasons to consider changing to a trawler and not sailboat trashing please.

That means you picked a good one. Unfortunately, I'm with Peter on this one. There are plenty of sailboats with good engine installations, but also quite a few out there where the engine installation was clearly an afterthought. I have a feeling it's the number of sailors that have owned those afterthoughts that breeds the distrust of engines I often see.

 

[mvweebles]

Well that fall into the "picking wrong boat" world. My sailboat has removable cover front and back that gives 355 degree access to front/back/sides of the engine. I know nothing after trawler exhaust systems, but my sailboat engine has 3651 hours on it and has never had an exhaust problem, not even a fouled elbow. That is much more than what I see on most trawlers.



Lets try to stay with reasons to consider changing to a trawler and not sailboat trashing please.

Wasn't intended as sailboat or sailor bashing. The previous posts touched on concern about failure of diesel engine and having a sail as backup. I spent 3 seasons doing every trawlerfest where I presented "Trawler Buying 101." Many sailors curious about trawlers expressed concerns about diesels in general, singles especially. Many (most?) engine installations in sailboats ive seen in the 40-foot range are not great.

Comparing reliability of a difficult to service diesel to one that was installed properly and relatively easy to service is a big difference. That's not bashing anyone or any boat. Just the way it works. In my opinion, sailors often (not always) do not understand the difference because they don't have context so they assume it's a diesel engine problem not realizing the same engine in an accessible engine bay would be much more likely to be regularly serviced.....and wouldn't strand them.

Sailboat engines are often (not always) installed below waterline. If the exhaust system isn't properly designed for all angles of heel, engines will drown. Unfortunately, an incorrectly installed engine can go years or decades and not drown itself. Then either mix of sea state or loading becomes a straw that tips the scales into flooding if engine. Easy to assume the engine failed. Or failure to service impellor leads to leaking head gasket - easy to blame the engine, not a raw water pump buried and difficult to service. Or maybe the engine is accessible but only when you offload spare anchors, sail bags, etc. You get the idea.

I'll say it again though: doesn't mean all sailboats suffer from poor service access and poor installation. And doesn't mean all trawlers are perfect or even good or that all trawler owners setvice their engines regularly. But it does mean that sailors are mistaken if they judge diesel reliability based on their typical experience with diesels and in my experience with a few thousand collective attendees in my TrawlerFest seminars, many sailors (not all) do just that. I'll also reiterate that a single diesel - which I cruise - has a legitimate concern about redundancy. Different topic and I perceive the risk as manageable, but suffice to say some sort of backup is tough to fully argue against.

If you're a fan of Wind Hippie Sailing YouTube (very crunchy off grid cruiser), she just replaced her engine due to exhaust issues. There are a few recent threads on CF that are similar. In the 70s and 80s, Perkins, the dominant engine of the day, developed a reputation for sunshine seeking connecting rods. Engine was actually fine. Install was not. If you don't know the difference and/or don't know the problems are solvable, well, would naturally make a person question reliability of a diesel gun-shy about a powerboat.

Absolutely no offense meant. Just the nature of the beast with many (not all) sailboats.

Peter

 

[CarlF]

I went from 30 years of monohull sailboats to a trawler for five years and now back to a 50' sailing cat. The cat has been the best.

None of the rolling of trawlers or monohull sailboats. Great privacy for guests in the other hull. Wonderful lounging space inside and out. Twin engines for safety. Will turn in it's own length with no thruster. And, the joy of saililng that I so missed on a trawler.

The signifixant drawbacks is you have to anchor out a lot because slips can be hard to find. But I find that a positive

 

[SoWhat]

No more melanoma risk, no more spending day in wet cold cockpit, no more scrambling around on pitching foredeck, actually see something looking out the windows at anchor, why did I wait so long. I do miss the quietness. Twin diesels roaring underneath all day is not my idea of tranquility...

 

[socalrider]

I went from 30 years of monohull sailboats to a trawler for five years and now back to a 50' sailing cat. The cat has been the best.

None of the rolling of trawlers or monohull sailboats. Great privacy for guests in the other hull. Wonderful lounging space inside and out. Twin engines for safety. Will turn in it's own length with no thruster. And, the joy of saililng that I so missed on a trawler.

The signifixant drawbacks is you have to anchor out a lot because slips can be hard to find. But I find that a positive

Thanks for sharing... yeah a sailing cat seems pretty ideal, particularly if you can swing something in the 50' range. Cat comfort seems to scale up exponentially due to the much greater beam - both room and motion get way better going from 40 to 45, then to 50'.

Problem is that cost scales up exponentially as well!

There's a lot to like about an efficient power cat as well, but not many to choose from.

 

[OldDan1943]

My only problem with cats is the narrowness of the hulls, to get to the head and the engine room size.
Of course I am talking about a mid 30ft such as the PDQ cat.

 

[SteveK]

I went from 30 years of monohull sailboats to a trawler for five years and now back to a 50' sailing cat. The cat has been the best.

None of the rolling of trawlers or monohull sailboats. Great privacy for guests in the other hull. Wonderful lounging space inside and out. Twin engines for safety. Will turn in it's own length with no thruster. And, the joy of saililng that I so missed on a trawler.

The signifixant drawbacks is you have to anchor out a lot because slips can be hard to find. But I find that a positive

Chartered a 46 cat in the BVI. I can see your point on accommodations, four queen and two singles rooms, 4 heads. Put up the sails and did not find that appealing, too much work, so maybe a power cat. But then moorage is an issue, still not a perfect solution all around.

 

[Simi 60]

I went from 30 years of monohull sailboats to a trawler for five years and now back to a 50' sailing cat. The cat has been the best.

None of the rolling of trawlers or monohull sailboats. Great privacy for guests in the other hull. Wonderful lounging space inside and out. Twin engines for safety. Will turn in it's own length with no thruster. And, the joy of saililng that I so missed on a trawler.

The signifixant drawbacks is you have to anchor out a lot because slips can be hard to find. But I find that a positive

What size trawler?

I was part way into the build on a 55x24ft cat
Not as much space and certainly couldn't carry the payload (comfort/autonomy) that we enjoy now

And then there's the $$
A decent cat in that size range will cost waaay more to buy, usually.

 

[socalrider]

Chartered a 46 cat in the BVI. I can see your point on accommodations, four queen and two singles rooms, 4 heads. Put up the sails and did not find that appealing, too much work, so maybe a power cat. But then moorage is an issue, still not a perfect solution all around.

Yeah there are no perfect solutions, otherwise what would be the point of this forum?

With 3 kids and frequent guests, four cabins would be a huge benefit. Five would be even better. Very hard to find in a trawler despite the copious space. Seems like 70-80% of what's on the market is only 2 cabins, even in the 50+ foot range.

Moorage is dependent on the area. We have a mooring ball, and everywhere we cruise would be mooring balls or at anchor, so it's a non-issue. In fact, our mooring has a 54' length maximum but no stated max beam, so a cat (sail or power) would be a great fit if we could only find something reasonably priced with 4 cabins. $400k seems like the price of entry for the most part for something 45'+.

 

[jgwinks]

A couple years ago we moved from a Columbia 36 sailboat to a Concorde 41 motoryacht. The Columbia was narrow for her length at 10.5 feet and the Concorde is about average at 13 feet. Interior volume is determined more by beam than length so we have a lot more room now. And two heads with showers, a square bed, and a real refrigerator. We cruised Lake Michigan extensively in the sailboat, and "good sailing days" were few and far between. Maybe two or three a year. That would be different in trade winds areas, but that's not where we're were. I've always considered myself a sailor, but as a licensed Captain all my commercial boats were power so they're well within my comfort zone. The biggest reason for changing was our cruising plans, we were starting the Great Loop. People do it in sailboats but you have to have the mast down for a lot of it so it's not ideal. When/if we settle down in an area where sail is more practical we may go back to that but now we're happy on the power boat.

 

[backinblue]

Well that fall into the "picking wrong boat" world. My sailboat has removable cover front and back that gives 355 degree access to front/back/sides of the engine. I know nothing after trawler exhaust systems, but my sailboat engine has 3651 hours on it and has never had an exhaust problem, not even a fouled elbow. That is much more than what I see on most trawlers.

Lets try to stay with reasons to consider changing to a trawler and not sailboat trashing please.

I have never had such good access to the engine as I did on my last sailboat. Admitedly not very big, but my last Island Packet, the cabin stairs were removable with a couple latches revealing the engine like it was sitting in the cabin with access all around. I literally had 7 feet of headroom. Not many trawlers achieve that.

 

[psneeld]

My last trawler was single engine with HORRIBLE engine access (due to placement of aftermarket items).

I got rid of the huge fuel tanks to much smaller ones, moved all the "appliances and batteries into the newly found space and now the engine and genset has nearly 360 degree access...certainly good enough for most minor and major maintenance.

The last sailboat (42') I worked on had great access, the last sailboat I owned (30") had pretty good access.

I think it is hit or miss depending on the boat.

 

[DDW]

You can go when the wind and weather might discourage sailing.

But the reverse is also true. On the trawler we look for windless, flat days. On a day with 20 knots with open fetch, I'd much rather stay in harbor. On the sailboat, that day is starting to get fun.

In open water, a very small sailboat is far more seaworthy that a pretty big trawler.

Again it comes down to the job you want it to do. You don't pick up a philips screwdriver to deal with a slotted head screw.

 

[Blissboat]

Again it comes down to the job you want it to do. You don't pick up a philips screwdriver to deal with a slotted head screw.

Fair points. A long offshore passage is where a powerful sailing rig and heavy, deep keel are the tools you need. But if I'm traveling in that sailing yacht, and the day's destination is forty miles upwind navigating in confined waters, I'm probably cranking up the engine and motoring.

As for that slotted screw, I'll dig down in my toolbag for my old Stanley slotted screwdriver that I keep for such emergencies, remove the offending screw one last time, then pitch it.

 

[Delta Riverat]

I agree. What's up with the slotted screws? Every single original one...

Me too, also replace every one I remove.

 

[O C Diver]

I agree. What's up with the slotted screws? Every single original one...

Me too, also replace every one I remove.

I imagine, back in the day, it was much easier to make slotted screws and slotted screwdrivers.

BTW, do you know how a Phillips screwdriver is made? (Phillips) Milk of Magnesia and vodka.

Ted

 

[Simi 60]

My only problem with cats is the narrowness of the hulls, to get to the head and the engine room size.
Of course I am talking about a mid 30ft such as the PDQ cat.

The cat I was building was 1200mm ( 4ft) on the waterline and 2400mm (8ft) at shoulder height.

The cat we built before that had the same hull shape but on a smaller scale, probably around 2 ft on waterline and 4 ft at shoulder.

All about design.

 

[Duetto]

we sailed and raced for over 30 years. did 1 trip ct to fl on our sail cat. we sailed 10% of the 1500 miles. when we got to fl we decided we were thru with sailing. our knee jerk reaction was to move to a 40-ish trawler. then we started thinking we're still only going to go about 8-9 knots. someone suggested looking at a 34' pdq. we bought it 18 years ago. have lived on it in bahamas & fl every winter since. 6 fl-ct round trips. cruises @ 14 knots and at that speed we average 2.8 km/gal.

sure there are compromises, so build your spread sheet with rating of what's import. 2 columns one for her and one for you. if you're honest this will get you closer to the right boat.

 

[Andiamo2018]

I spent 6 months a year for several years running sailing charters in the Caribbean on a 34 sailboat without a running engine. Constant steady wind and during the Christmas Winds (that usually came in early Jan during my time) I was the only boat that left the bay.

In SF bay I sail and live on a 40ft traditional double ended wooden sloop. I also teach a lot on that boat.

Meanwhile I got hooked up with a woman that wanted all the things that a decent trawler can offer and we moved to that boat. That relationship ended and I'm back aboard the sailboat full time

There are advantages to both. I prefer the quiet and affordability of wind power. But it was great when visitors came to just point the bow at the Gate and push the throttles forward, tides be damned lol. But when the wind picked up it wasn't any fun on the trawler and we spent the afternoons docked.

I have NEVER taken the sailboat 'up tha delta' but went several times on the trawler. I NEVER take the trawler out on a summer afternoon with 30kt gusts but a reef in the main the sailboat is fine.

The space, bigger shower and large galley and Cal King bed all made the trawler pretty nice, especially at the dock. But even in the PNW if I had to choose just one it would be a sailboat, mostly due to the cost of diesel but also the intangibles of living and getting around under sail.

The mindset of sailing - going within the dictates of nature, arriving when you arrive and the whole 'to travel is better than to arrive' sort of thing - make the sailboat my choice...IF I had to choose just one.

I own a very efficient hybrid car but I usually do my commuting, shopping etc on a bicycle. I like the feeling like I'm more in nature and more connected to the world and bicycling and sailing gives that to me.