Vacuuflush & Peggie Hall

[Ross Macdonald]

vacuflush

Everyone seems to really like the Raritan Elegance heads on the forum. I haven't heard any comments on the Dometic Masterflush heads. Two of my neighbors have replaced VF with the Dometic heads and seem to really like them. Any thoughts on these heads?

 

[MichaelD]

The din

I have two VFs. I've had problems. They've been solved. They work well.

Now, what would it take to get the guys who are beating that horse that died way back early in the thread to stop beating it?

 

[OldDan1943]

I have two VFs. I've had problems. They've been solved. They work well.

Now, what would it take to get the guys who are beating that horse that died way back early in the thread to stop beating it?

You mean .....

When I am gone for my annual 2 month trip to Atlanta. I shut the VF head off and flush it until the vacuum is all gone and no water in the bowl also I shut the FW system down and bleed that down too.

 

[Higgo]

Another possibility

Had a similar issue with the pump going off every 10 mins or so. Did all the usual trouble shooting, replacing duckbills, etc. then finally took the pump to the local distributor. He told me that a few years back, there was a bad batch of funnels that the vacuum hose connects to! It wasn’t obvious, but on really close inspection, there were hairline spider web type cracks in the funnel! Changing it out solved the problem!

Hope this helps! Cheers

 

[syjos]

Everyone seems to really like the Raritan Elegance heads on the forum. I haven't heard any comments on the Dometic Masterflush heads. Two of my neighbors have replaced VF with the Dometic heads and seem to really like them. Any thoughts on these heads?

The Dometic/Sealand Masterflush is an excellent macerating toilet similar in concept and operation to Tecma and Marine Elegence.

It has stainless steel blades in the pump unlike other toilets that utilizes plastic.

It is the top selling marine toilet at my distributor; Marine Sanitation in Seattle. Tecma 2nd and the Raritan is #3 in sales there.

When I have a client in the market for marine toilets, I send them to Marine Sanitations showroom to look at and make their toilet choice. Most choose Masterflush, a few Thetford/Tecma, 8% choose Marine Elegance

Marine Sanitation sells and stock Dometic/Sealand, Thetford/Tecma and Rariton marine toilets. They have all the toilets on display in their showroom, some hooked up for demonstration.

Attached is a comparison of macerating toilets. Be aware that the comparison was conducted by Dometic, who is the manufacturer of Masterflush so it's not like an impartial review in Consumer Reports or Practicle Sailor. But it does compare the differences in features between manufacturers products.

Full disclosure: I am a Dometic/Sealand Dealer.

 

[NCheaven]

VF head in Nordhavn 41

PassageMaker article (8/24/21) by Chris Caswell on line noted that the new Nordhavn 41 has a VF head. Nordhavn choosing VF is as strong an endorsement for a head as can be given, imo.

 

[DDW]

The Marine Elegance I installed has a SS macerating blade.

One thing to consider when choosing a head is the cost of the replacement parts that might be needed. That is what decided it for me between the Dometic and the Raritan. They seem very similar otherwise.

 

[timb7734]

Had nine VF heads in four boats over 25 years. Last trawler had three. Once had a unit that kept recycling, and after going through all the “easy” fixes found a leak in the tank. Fixed that with Shoe Goo. Otherwise occasional duck bills, nothing else. Did not flush TP. Now have four Raritan Elegance and have no problems but still do not flush TP.

 

[ksanders]

I have two VF systems that were rebuilt maybe three years ago and have been working flawlessly since for this stayaboard boat owner.

One of mine was OEM designed to be almost perfect access for service. The other one not so much.

While I like the reliability of my VF systems I do recognize a downside, being the need to have them in a location that makes servicing easy.

For the one that is difficult to access I am considering preemptively replacing it with one of the Raritan products. Why Raritan? Simply because I have experience with the brand and like their quality, the availability of parts, and their great support.

If I replace a head I know I will get a few year "honeymoon" period of likely trouble free operation. At some point the unit will need servicing.

This is where the challenge lies... Thinking of the confined spaces in a marine head space which in reality means close bulkheads , or counters on three sides just how easy will the new unit be to service?

I have not looked at the exploded drawings of any of the heads I would consider but I will be doing just that prior to making any decision. For me a head I have to remove to service is just as bad or worse than a vacuflush I need to remove to service, and I alrerady have a full spare parts compliment for the vacuflush and the knowlewdge of how they work.

My opinion is that many of the problems folks here experience with VF are based on OEM installations that make servicing difficult, and or the owners not having the learned knowledge of how they work, and or a good spare parts inventory.

The positive results folks report on replacements are again in my opinion based on the normal no break period we get with any new installation.

The "my vacuflush sucks because it's unreliable" posts are based on a 20-30 year old installation, and the "my new head is so great" posts are based on a less than 5 year old installation in my observation.

If you installed a new VF system today many would sing it's praises as well for the first several years.

 

[catalinajack]

PassageMaker article (8/24/21) by Chris Caswell on line noted that the new Nordhavn 41 has a VF head. Nordhavn choosing VF is as strong an endorsement for a head as can be given, imo.

It means absolutely nothing, imo.

 

[Bacchus]

I gave to agree. I helped a boat buddy with his Tiara... a supposed high quality builder with his VF.
Tiara installed it in an unaccessible location with NO consideration for maintenance. They apparently don't understand the components or systems they are installing. Tiara rep told owner to cut into the teak & Holly flooring and they would send material to repair... of course all DIY by owner or at owners expense.
We finally were able to get another younger/ more nimble helper to remove the whole system and relocated it for easy service. A simple move Tiara could / should have considered if they understood the system and cared about owners.

 

[Comodave]

I also agree. On our new Formula the access to the vacuum generator is very poor. I much prefer an electric macerating head where all of the maintenance items are located in the head itself. Much easier to work on, much less real estate dedicated to the head system. Also much less expensive to repair.

 

[DDW]

I agree that service accessibility is key no matter what brand or type of head. The VF has several gaskets in the bowl itself, which is bolted to the floor with a closet flange and so cannot be moved without breaking that seal. The ME head can be moved for service after removing three screws, without breaking any seals and leaking effluent, *provided* you leave a bit of a service loop on plumbing lines. On a VF if the vacuum generator and pump were accessible on all sides at least service would be fairly easy, but that equipment already takes considerably space even if stuffed tightly into a corner.

The most trouble free head ever is the Lavac on my sailboat. Hand pump though.

I'm curious about the people who say "never put TP in a head". What do you do with it?

 

[BruceK]

...I'm curious about the people who say "never put TP in a head". What do you do with it?

It goes into a plastic bag fitted to a lidded container kept next to the head. I expected it to stink but surprisingly it doesn`t. Wipes go there too.The tied off plastic bag and contents go into the marina trash container.

 

[ranger58sb]

Yuck.

-Chris

 

[Mako]

What do you do when cruising for weeks on end - throw the “diaper bag” overboard? If so then it is not getting macerated first or broken down in the VF system.

 

[Hippocampus]

Have had electric and manual heads. In fact both types on the same boat. Surprisingly have come to believe electric heads are more reliable and trouble free. As said by others I’m a fan of the elegance and spec’d that for the last boat. Find that a decent incinerating head isn’t yet practical on most small (<60’) boats. Like the incinolet but it didn’t seem doable to spec.
Has anyone here installed an incinerating head? No pump outs. No pollution restrictions. Baby wipes and TP a non issue. Other than electrical draw seems to solve no dumping issues now and into the future. Add in a way to handle grey water and no issues for the future as expect no greywater restrictions to become more wide spread as time goes by.

 

[Hippocampus]

While on passage we carry large heavy mill plastic garbage bags.
One is filled with plastics. They are crushed first.
Second is unconsumed food wastes. It’s emptied periodic on calm days and then the bag put inside the “plastics” bag.
Third is contaminated paper wastes. Depending upon length of passage it’s either disposed of upon landfall or dumped mid ocean and the bag goes nto plastics. Even with 2-2 1/2 week passages it’s saved as we still have room for it.
Most food wastes go immediately overboard immediately after the meal and cleanup. In each head there’s a small flip top waste basket. We use paper bags as the liner not plastic bags. Dumping those >3miles out isn’t restricted.
Mako your concern is well placed but easily solved with little ado. Biggest problem is where to store the “plastics “ bag. We leave space in the lazerette. When food shopping whenever there’s a choice between a plastic container and a biodegradable one pick the biodegradable one. It’s amazing how much plastics you generate on land and how little you can generate on a boat with a bit of forethought.

 

[Tator]

I agree that service accessibility is key no matter what brand or type of head. The VF has several gaskets in the bowl itself, which is bolted to the floor with a closet flange and so cannot be moved without breaking that seal. The ME head can be moved for service after removing three screws, without breaking any seals and leaking effluent, *provided* you leave a bit of a service loop on plumbing lines. On a VF if the vacuum generator and pump were accessible on all sides at least service would be fairly easy, but that equipment already takes considerably space even if stuffed tightly into a corner.

The most trouble free head ever is the Lavac on my sailboat. Hand pump though.

I'm curious about the people who say "never put TP in a head". What do you do with it?

Our Vacuflush bowl exits out the rear of the base. I can remove the bowl and base from the platform without a problem. We have had VFs on our boats for 26 years with very little problem. This a period that has us mostly living on our boat full time or at least 4 months of the year. As we are in Alaska, I do keep a supply of parts on board and they just gather dust and take up space. It's rare when I even change the duckbills.

That being said, If I were to start over I would consider the Elegance especially if it was quieter. One question I would need answered is how well does it handle saltwater? I have valves on our VF that switches it over to saltwater whenever we are away from the dock. The advantages are obvious and has not proved detrimental to the VF in 16 years of use.

Tator

 

[Mako]

Based on my experience with VF, electric, manual heads, boats and RVs, for my future build I will be installing Dometic RV toilets. Also would consider refitting an existing boat as long as there is room underneath for a small black water tank.

Price wise you’d find the total installed costs to be similar likely, but the reliability of an RV head far outweighs else, IMO.

 

[FF]

"Price wise you’d find the total installed costs to be similar likely, but the reliability of an RV head far outweighs else, "

Even if the RV head cost double , the cost would be made up from needing to pumpout 1/5 to 1/10 as often.

Dometic High Profile 300 Gravity Flush Toilet, White | $189.00
Dometic 302300073 300 Series Standard Height Heavy Duty $119.

Also offered with a china bowl.

 

[Mako]

The one thing I liked about my VF system was that I plumbed it so the pump would also empty my holding tank. Double duty.

 

[Bacchus]

"Price wise you’d find the total installed costs to be similar likely, but the reliability of an RV head far outweighs else, "

Even if the RV head cost double , the cost would be made up from needing to pumpout 1/5 to 1/10 as often.

Also offered with a china bowl.

I'm assuming the lower frequency of pumping holding tank is lower water usage. There are many folks reporting solids build up with gravity heads when they don't use enough water. Once you build up a "mound" clearing it can be a challenge.

 

[slowgoesit]

There is a rumor I have started that Peggy is going to come to my boat and install a brand new Raitan Elegance.
Isn't that wonderful of her?

I want to get on her list for ME installs!



Peggy, are you listening?!?

 

[catalinajack]

"Price wise you’d find the total installed costs to be similar likely, but the reliability of an RV head far outweighs else, "

Even if the RV head cost double , the cost would be made up from needing to pumpout 1/5 to 1/10 as often. Also offered with a china bowl.

So, how would a gravity head work when the crap has to travel horizontally 25 feet to reach the holding tank? Seems to me a gravity head would work only where it is pretty much directly above the holding tank. Even my forward head has about a six-foot horizontal run to the tank. I wouldn't think a gravity head would work on many boats.

Besides, pump-outs don't cost me anything. I just pump overboard.

 

[Mako]

So, how would a gravity head work when the crap has to travel horizontally 25 feet to reach the holding tank?...

Correct and hence my statement of being able to fit a small tank directly underneath the head. A small pump could transfer the waste to the main tank if necessary.

The point being that RV heads are the most reliable heads on earth, short of a cedar bucket, and use only small amounts of water (pressure fresh water). Plus they are economical to purchase. You just need to be able to fit one.

 

[FF]

"So, how would a gravity head work when the crap has to travel horizontally 25 feet to reach the holding tank?'

That's why the builder needs a plan from the boats designer BEFORE the boat is built.

The toilet system is a critical part of the vessel, not something left to the builder to patch together with guesswork.

"Once you build up a "mound" clearing it can be a challenge."

The mound hassle only exists in RV that drain all the black water is it collects in a fixed location with a constant drain, like an RV park.

When the human and tiny flush water is left in the tank till drained , the problem does not exist.

 

[OldDan1943]

That's why the builder needs a plan from the boats designer BEFORE the boat is built.

Hence the job title "Head Designer"?

 

[HeadMistress]

I want to get on her list for ME installs!
Peggy, are you listening?!?

You wouldn't be the first person on the list...they've already hired me for my $500/day fee plus travel expenses. When would you like to schedule your job?



--Peggie

 

[kthoennes]

You wouldn't be the first person on the list...they've already hired me for my $500/day fee plus travel expenses. When would you like to schedule your job?

--Peggie

That's a bargain. You have to charge more than that. I'd pay that much for a general boat maintenance guy to come up from say Stuart, FL just to knock out some of my to-do list -- and he wouldn't be a national expert on boat sani systems. Heck, I offered that much to a local aluminum welder for one bow rail repair and he turned me down, too busy.