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Old 01-20-2020, 04:22 PM   #1
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Tom and Jackie Hawks Murder

God I cringed when I typed that thread title, but having seen the story it is such a tragedy that has a lesson. It really does make one think when selling anything to put a professional "filter" between you and the buyers. As for the death penalty, maybe it is good for these people to have to sit and think of what they did. But me personally, I don't think the killers lives are worth a .22 short round. I have no doubt there are people on this site who knew this couple. So sad....

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-...-witness-says/

https://youtu.be/ZgiKfbntndw

https://youtu.be/j5Pf41ofEQ8
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Old 01-20-2020, 06:09 PM   #2
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something isn't adding up....( based on the second link posted....the Youtube story ) The guy needed $17k for gender re-assignment surgery.....but he presented the victims with a briefcase with $400k+ to purchase the boat ?????
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Old 01-20-2020, 06:37 PM   #3
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There was no money. He was broke and living in a garage. "Buying" the boat never happened, the Notary Public lied and assisted in forging the documents. There was no briefcase with $485,000 in it.

The ironic part of the whole tragedy is this. What would this idiot want with a half a million dollar boat? He did not have the money to fuel it up after the murder much less the dockage, etc. As for selling it. There is no way any sale could go through with the disappearance of the rightful owners on the radar. Even with his forged documents the bank they went to to collect the victims savings, etc would not turn over a dime until the whole matter was settled.

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Old 01-20-2020, 06:42 PM   #4
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The ironic part of the whole tragedy is this. What would this idiot want with a half a million dollar boat?
The average IQ is 100. Half the people around you are stupid and too dumb to know it. Some are REALLY stupid. Some are really stupid and think they are smart. Usually they are just annoying as hell, but once in a while they are also evil And that when stuff like this happens.
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Old 01-20-2020, 06:57 PM   #5
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ahh.....that makes more sense...thanks Pete. I guess that's what I get for multi-tasking too much.

If he had power of attorney for the deceased couple he could have used their funds to pay for operating costs.
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Old 01-20-2020, 07:59 PM   #6
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That took place in Dana Pt. if I remember correctly. Brutal, sad story, but a good reminder of what Homo Sapiens are capable of.
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Old 01-21-2020, 07:34 AM   #7
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Frankly I've never understood the opposition to the death penalty for premeditated murder in the commission of a crime.

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Old 01-21-2020, 08:37 AM   #8
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Frankly I've never understood the opposition to the death penalty for premeditated murder in the commission of a crime.

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Old 01-21-2020, 08:43 AM   #9
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You say that some folks are really stupid and think they are smart. Does anyone here know of someone who fits this description.
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The average IQ is 100. Half the people around you are stupid and too dumb to know it. Some are REALLY stupid. Some are really stupid and think they are smart. Usually they are just annoying as hell, but once in a while they are also evil And that when stuff like this happens.
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Old 01-21-2020, 08:45 AM   #10
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Frankly I've never understood the opposition to the death penalty for premeditated murder in the commission of a crime.

Ted
One may feel good for the death penalty.

However, on average, a death penalty case costs the tax payers more money than life without the possibility …
Why spend the additional cash on attorneys for the defendant when a lock up for life takes the person off the street permanently. If they die, in most cases the death is more or less painless. Unlike what they typically inflicted.
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Old 01-21-2020, 09:36 AM   #11
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You say that some folks are really stupid and think they are smart. Does anyone here know of someone who fits this description.
I'm not going to mention any names but tuning in to CNBC, CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS,etc. will provide you with a lot of candidates.
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Old 01-21-2020, 11:05 AM   #12
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One may feel good for the death penalty.

However, on average, a death penalty case costs the tax payers more money than life without the possibility …
Why spend the additional cash on attorneys for the defendant when a lock up for life takes the person off the street permanently. If they die, in most cases the death is more or less painless. Unlike what they typically inflicted.
Because there are some people, who because of their actions, should forfeit their right to walk the earth. Anywhere...
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Old 01-21-2020, 11:16 AM   #13
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And now because of their actions will cost the tax payers more than the cost of that boat in attorney, court and jail costs. Far exceeding the cost of that boat.
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Old 01-21-2020, 12:30 PM   #14
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I get the emotion.
I get the want to take revenge or give a penalty that rises to the crime that was convicted.

However NOTHING will reverse the act or past illegal events of the criminal. Nothing!

And over US history, the death penalty has been changed to make that event to be outside of the legal definition of cruel or inhumane punishment. In addition the process to get to that punishment administered is an average that is the better part of two decades. (If the criminal lives that long) With mandatory appeal process paid for by the tax payer. And housing death row inmates costing more than a non-death row inmate. Like a million dollars more per inmate on average. It isn't worth it in my opinion for a human that commits that kind of act.

https://www.thebalance.com/comparing...prison-4689874

I get the emotion. And I have never been exposed on any level to being a victim of that type of crime in that magnitude. Maybe my opinion would be different if I had been exposed. However I do not wish that on anyone.

But in this day of government over spending and public debt being so expensive …. my opinion is to lock up a capital crimes convict for ever. Stop the court costs and public attorney fees for mandatory appeals. I am tired of paying for that!
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Old 01-21-2020, 12:34 PM   #15
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One may feel good for the death penalty.

However, on average, a death penalty case costs the tax payers more money than life without the possibility …
Why spend the additional cash on attorneys for the defendant when a lock up for life takes the person off the street permanently. If they die, in most cases the death is more or less painless. Unlike what they typically inflicted.
That speaks to the ridiculous cost of the appeals process put in place by death penalty opponents. A person facing the death penalty should be entitled to 2 automatic appeals (1 state 1 federal). The appeal needs to be filed within 90 days of the verdict. The trial needs to be the next one on that class of docket, beginning 1 year of the previous verdict. The appeals process shouldn't last 3 years. Execution must be within 6 months of final trial verdict.

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Old 01-21-2020, 02:51 PM   #16
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That speaks to the ridiculous cost of the appeals process put in place by death penalty opponents. A person facing the death penalty should be entitled to 2 automatic appeals (1 state 1 federal). The appeal needs to be filed within 90 days of the verdict. The trial needs to be the next one on that class of docket, beginning 1 year of the previous verdict. The appeals process shouldn't last 3 years. Execution must be within 6 months of final trial verdict.

Ted
There have been at least 21 people on death row exonerated by DNA evidence who would have been executed on this schedule. I wouldn’t want those deaths on my conscience just to have a speedier appeals process. There are plenty of people I read about that I’d like to see pay the ultimate price for their crimes, but not at the cost of executing the innocent.
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Old 01-21-2020, 04:42 PM   #17
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The average IQ is 100. Half the people around you are stupid and too dumb to know it. Some are REALLY stupid. Some are really stupid and think they are smart. Usually they are just annoying as hell, but once in a while they are also evil And that when stuff like this happens.
Evil and/or dumb pretty much covers every single person in prison. Someone who is both, is a really dangerous person to encounter.

The dumber a criminal is, the more dangerous they are. Because, they usually don't act in a rational manner, making their behavior very unpredictable, even to themselves.

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You say that some folks are really stupid and think they are smart. Does anyone here know of someone who fits this description.
Is it me? It is, isn't it.
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Old 01-21-2020, 04:43 PM   #18
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Pure evil exists. I’ve seen it. Dealt with it. Had it seated in the back of my patrol car. Anyone who doubts this is a fool.
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Old 01-21-2020, 05:42 PM   #19
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There have been at least 21 people on death row exonerated by DNA evidence who would have been executed on this schedule. I wouldn’t want those deaths on my conscience just to have a speedier appeals process. There are plenty of people I read about that I’d like to see pay the ultimate price for their crimes, but not at the cost of executing the innocent.
I understand that, no system is perfect. How many of those were convicted of premeditated murder in the commission of a crime? We see far too many police officers killed in the line of duty where there is zero doubt who did it, but the process of final justice is measured in decades.

Unfortunately, some get excused as the appeals process out lives the witnesses. The death penalty serves 2 purposes. It eliminates some who would be repeat offenders and it serves as a deterrent to some considering the same crime. The latter is lost when it takes 20 years for justice and nobody remembers the crime.

Ted
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Old 01-21-2020, 06:07 PM   #20
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The death penalty serves 2 purposes. It eliminates some who would be repeat offenders and it serves as a deterrent to some considering the same crime. The latter is lost when it takes 20 years for justice and nobody remembers the crime.

Ted
I would suggest that if convicted and the penalty of life without the possibility of parole would serve those same 2 purposes as well.

And in my uneducated opinion the second purpose stated above is rarely a consideration for those that are engaged in that type of activity. Either the thought never crosses their mind because it is a crime of passion or there is a mental defect. Or they believe they will beat the system and the penalty whatever it may be will not apply to them specifically. Which would be a premeditated excuse in their mind. Reality or logic may not be the same consideration as it would be for you, me or anyone else reading this thread.

If that is the case why pay for the added court drama of appeals and high security lock up?
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