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Old 04-13-2017, 11:44 PM   #21
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You guys are amazing! Thank you for all of this input. I'm not sure if I have been swayed one way or the other yet but it helps knowing that we all wrestle with this stuff.

MYTraveler brings up an interesting point--high rev engines vs. slower turning ones. I thought all newish (maybe 2005 and newer) engines were higher revving and higher temp than the older models to meet pollution requirements. Is this not the case? Is it still possible to buy a new, clean lower rpm engine?

And the concern regarding engine room access is very valid. I currently do all of my own routine maintenance. But anything that requires any real mechanical skill will have to be left to a professional. So, is engine room still a priority or are mechanics able to make the impossible possible?

One more question: If one of the twins does poop out, how does a boat handle on only one engine?
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Old 04-13-2017, 11:45 PM   #22
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Do those of you with twins run on only one engine when traveling very slowly?
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Old 04-14-2017, 01:59 AM   #23
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Do those of you with twins run on only one engine when traveling very slowly?
From previous postings, most don`t. But you could, whether the gearbox is happy is a consideration.
As to the handling on one engine, you can balance the turning force with some rudder, quite easily. But docking, threading your way through moorings, things like that, are going to be unaccustomed experiences, probably difficult, and harder than a single engine boat, as the one engine and its rudder are off center. And, you`d be used to the huge plus of twins, being able to steer the boat, fwd or back, on the gears and throttles.
I`ve had a single, now have twins, I`d be reluctant to go back, even with thrusters both ends. Weigh it up for yourself but imo,if the boat with twins is otherwise good,take it.
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Old 04-14-2017, 06:39 AM   #24
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Let's not get into a discussion on whether high revving engines are more or less reliable. We could go on and on and it still would not help you in this decision. I have a buddy with a Viking with twin 2400hp MTUs that have a redline of 2300RPM...if you get my drift. Let's just say that either of those engines in those boats will serve you well. My boat I have now is my first twin engine boat. I still think I am a single engine guy...but I like speed. If it were me in your shoes, I would take the twin because of speed. But if they made that boat with a 500hp single QSC Cummins, I would choose the single that has the same amount of power as the twins. I personally think choosing an extra engine for maneuverability is an awful lot to pay for that added maneuverability when thrusters are MUCH cheaper to maintain. And I think a single with a thruster is simpler to maneuver. Good luck....exciting times ahead.

PS...I do believe on those boats you enter the engine room thru the cockpit and there are no removable floorboards??? If that is the case, you need to make DAMN sure you can get around those twins.
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Old 04-14-2017, 07:33 AM   #25
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Taking into account what everyone else posting on here has said, realistically are you intending to do all the engine maintenance..? If not then the access is perhaps less of an issue, (mechanics tend to be younger and more supple)...

I can add to this: the raw water pump on our port engine is on the outboard side, not easy for me to change that impeller.

I can do it, in a pinch... but the young engine tech in our yard can do it fairly easily, mostly by feel. I don't begrudge paying him to change that one as part of my routine service, even though I try to do most everything else myself. It's not a huge amount... and I don't hurt so much the next day.

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Old 04-14-2017, 08:57 AM   #26
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-high rev engines vs. slower turning ones. I thought all newish (maybe 2005 and newer) engines were higher revving and higher temp than the older models to meet pollution requirements. Is this not the case? Is it still possible to buy a new, clean lower rpm engine?
Yes, I have a 2007 Cummins which I usually cruise from 900 to 1400 RPM. It is a common rail engine.

I would suggest you get the Best boat AFTER looking at engine accessibility, especially if you are going to do any of your maintenance.
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Old 04-14-2017, 09:15 AM   #27
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And I think a single with a thruster is simpler to maneuver."
I am now on my ninth boat since 1995 and all but one have been twin diesels. I am in complete agreement with the above statement as I had a single for 8 years and loved it! I could do a slalom course backwards with that boat. (Using the thruster to change direction.) My current boat is a twin which I bought for speed.
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Old 04-14-2017, 09:22 AM   #28
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Y-high rev engines vs. slower turning ones. I thought all newish (maybe 2005 and newer) engines were higher revving
It may be that newer engines are higher revving than their prior counterparts, but the reference to high reving isn't 2,000 vs. 2500 rpm, its 2,000 ish vs high 3,000 ish. I just checked specs of a few Yanmar engines -- they are rated to 3,800 rpm.
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Old 04-14-2017, 09:50 AM   #29
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Obviously a subjective question.
I think generally, you would find that folks with twins, have, from time to time said "Hey...right now, I wish I had a single.", and folks with singles may have said once or twice, "Hey...twins would be nice right now".
The frequency of those thoughts is going to vary by a large degree.

As you know, boats handle differently. To handle twins requires you learn how to handle/maneuver that configuration, and to handle a single (with/without thruster) will be considerably different.

When I bought my single MT34' Whistful, several boaters in the marina told me I should have purchased something with twins, because they are so much more maneuverable.
I was discussing this with friend who was a LONG-time trawler owner, while sitting on his sundeck with cocktails. He pointed to a lobster boat that was hauling traps in a very narrow cove. "Ever see a one of those small, coastal, lobster boats with twins?"...
Good point.
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Old 04-14-2017, 10:05 AM   #30
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[QUOTE=maineman;543701

And the concern regarding engine room access is very valid. I currently do all of my own routine maintenance. But anything that requires any real mechanical skill will have to be left to a professional. So, is engine room still a priority or are mechanics able to make the impossible possible?
[/QUOTE]


Think of what you do for your routine maintenance.
- engine oil and filters
- Secondary fuel filter
- air filters
- raw water impellers
- raw water strainers
- rust protection (spraying, painting etc...)
- check/adjust belt tension
- anode replacement

Then things that you may or may not do yourself
- Coolant flush
- aftercooler maintenance
- other mysterious stuff that I don't understand.

If I was looking to buy a boat with twins, I would seriously consider taking that list, and then crawling around the ER pretending I was doing those things. I spend more time than I wish doing engine maintenance and I just have a single and a genset. I am lazy but can't afford to hire out the relatively easy and routine stuff.
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Old 04-14-2017, 10:11 AM   #31
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I am now on my ninth boat since 1995

Wow! You are changing boats every 2 1/2 years. I bet you are really good at adapting to different systems at this point.
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Old 04-14-2017, 11:06 AM   #32
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Assuming the boats and engines have been well tended, OC made a good point. When in far away places twins may have an advantage. In the far reaches of AK a vessel with twins does indeed provide a level of security that a single without get home does not. Been there, needed that option.

Most twins handle well when one engine is down. If per chance you are sea trialing a twin, put one in neutral and try it out.
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Old 04-14-2017, 12:03 PM   #33
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Single engine boat in another slip hit a boat last year trying to dock on a windy day last year. He just put in a bow thruster. $7000.
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Old 04-14-2017, 12:12 PM   #34
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And I have seen twins take out fuel docks and other boats....in benign conditions.

That is the fault of the skipper, not the boat.

The only difference in my experience...is twins are like a single with a get home engine....

It's not a safety issue 99% of the time...but a huge convenience issue or required for speed... nothing more...nothing less.
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Old 04-14-2017, 01:33 PM   #35
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The biggest difference is usually a matter of power and weight. Most trawlers are built with the twin engine option having much more total power. So the question is mostly how much weight and power do you want. For many the maint and boat handling issues are minor compared to the big difference in power, fuel consumption and weight.
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Old 04-14-2017, 03:28 PM   #36
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For that boat, with a single I'd add a thruster. Those are relatively light boats with small rudders - put an oxygen tent on there for the PNW and its going to be hard to maneuver on occasion. I'd put the money into an awesome tender that could - if it had to - tow the vessel. And tow the tender.
Oxygen Tent. HA, never heard that before. Mine is like a sail and once the wind catches you it's all over. I've learned to use it to my advantage when possible.
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Old 04-14-2017, 04:03 PM   #37
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access to the outside of twins really isn't a big issue. In 24 years with this boat's twin configuration I have found access to the outside of the stb engine a minor inconvenience, primarily to get the oil filter off without creating a mess, as it required a drain pan on the stringer (as does the Port engine, but that one is in the middle of the boat) and then recovery of the filled drain pan without spilling. Once I learned the right technique, no big deal. I think most of the guys who reject twins for that reason have just failed to think it through and find a better way to get that access.
I haven't ever had a problem on the outside of the port engine. I find access to the back of my outboard more difficult.
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Old 04-14-2017, 04:29 PM   #38
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Keith,
You could install an extractor manual pump connected w a hose and fitting at the oil pan drain hole. Then you can route the hose and manual pump wherever you want it. Shouldn't cost much.
And the oil should drain out of the filter. Some poke a hole on the top of the filter as a breather vent.
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Old 04-14-2017, 04:42 PM   #39
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ER access w single is a dream...haven't been aboard a twin.
You didn't mention thrusters...if single has a thrister or two handling is easy.
Lots of support either way...goid news is you won't go wrong either way
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Old 04-14-2017, 06:22 PM   #40
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Keith,
You could install an extractor manual pump connected w a hose and fitting at the oil pan drain hole. Then you can route the hose and manual pump wherever you want it. Shouldn't cost much.
And the oil should drain out of the filter. Some poke a hole on the top of the filter as a breather vent.
Eric

My oil filter gets changed annually. It takes maybe 3 minutes. Not so big a problem that I would spend any time or energy trying to solve. My system works just dandy. I mentioned it only to minimize the so called "problems with access" mentioned so frequently in the classic argument over singles v twins.
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