Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 07-14-2020, 09:45 PM   #1
Member
 
City: Branford CT
Country: Usa
Vessel Name: Opus
Vessel Model: 44 Tiara Sovran
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 14
Selene Auction

The first and most important step to our next boat has been accomplished. Much to our surprise we sold our Tiara 44 Sovran a few weeks ago and are now beginning to move forward with the first steps of finalizing our retirement and the purchase of a live aboard trawler. We had not intended to seriously begin our search until after the first of the year due to Covid-19. A friend sent me this post for a Selene listed through a salvage company. This is definitely a boat on our list. According to the listing the boat was purchased new but was not ultimately accepted by the new owner due to the following:

The boat was purchased new and after taking delivery the owner noticed seeing "print through" the paint. Print through is when you can detect the fiberglass mat with your eye when looking at the boats hull. This boat was painted jade green and the mat can be seen through the outer layer of glass. The boat operates just fine and all systems seem to operate

Posting from salvage company. https://www.cooperss.com/asset-list....me=marine&id=2

I’m trying to understand what repairing the hull print through issues might entail and why a cosmetic issue was not resolved by Selene under warranty. Could this be an unrepairable hull molding issue? Any insight would be greatly appreciated
__________________
Advertisement

OPUS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2020, 04:51 AM   #2
Guru
 
DavidM's Avatar
 
City: Litchfield, Ct/Punta Gorda, Fl
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Atlas Pompano 23
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 5,415
There must be more to the story than simple mat print through. It may not be that easy to fix, maybe tens of thousands to strip the paint, sand it down, spray on a new gel coat layer, and repaint.

I suspect the original gel coat layer was too thin or not enough filler to make it opaque.

But I can't believe that this wasn't resolved under warranty. There may have been a legal maneuver among the buyer, dealer and Selene that blew up and resulted in it going to salvage.

David
__________________

DavidM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2020, 06:00 AM   #3
TF Site Team
 
Insequent's Avatar
 
City: Brisbane
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Insequent
Vessel Model: Ocean Alexander 50 Mk I
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 2,819
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidM View Post
There must be more to the story than simple mat print through. It may not be that easy to fix, maybe tens of thousands to strip the paint, sand it down, spray on a new gel coat layer, and repaint.

I suspect the original gel coat layer was too thin or not enough filler to make it opaque.

But I can't believe that this wasn't resolved under warranty. There may have been a legal maneuver among the buyer, dealer and Selene that blew up and resulted in it going to salvage.

David
Yes, an odd story. I can understand the buyer not being happy, and forcing a resolution. For Selene, the work David describes above is a very expensive solution, although who knows whether in the long term avoiding reputation damage might have made it the best option.

But in the end I think someone just said 'thats why we pay insurance premiums'. The problem for the rest of us is that our premiums increase as a result of that kind of attitude.

I'd see it as a lifestyle facilitator rather than an irreplaceable piece of art such as a masterpiece by da Vinci. Someone could well get a pretty nice near-new boat for a bargain price. Depending on layup, for example polyester versus vinylester, it might just need a bit of prep, epoxy barrier coat and awlgrip spray. Not cheap, and a fix the new boat buyer can justly baulk at, but not a huge cost either. If it is to be used rather than be a dock queen trophy asset then inevitably it will accumulate wear & tear anyway.
__________________
Brian
Insequent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2020, 06:22 AM   #4
Senior Member
 
ScottC's Avatar
 
City: Malmö
Country: SWEDEN
Vessel Name: ABsolutely FABulous
Vessel Model: Greenline 33 Hybrid (2010)
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 402
Wow! Good thing that this is a bit out of my league, Opus, otherwise I'd be bidding against you! Sure looks like a fine vessel. Surprising they don't show any close-ups of the "print-through" issue. I've noticed print-through, over the years, on a number of production boats and it usually isn't horribly objectionable. Perhaps it is a lot more obvious on dark green?? Anyway, I think I would probably be happy to exchange a bit of print-through for a 75% discount :-)
__________________
Scott
2010 Greenline 33' Hull #54
Home port: Malmö, SWEDEN
Currently in: Gruissan, FRANCE
ScottC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2020, 06:33 AM   #5
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 8,743
Selene indeed had some hulls that showed "mat thru" issues. I looked at one about 9 years ago. Without getting into details it was one of several with hull imperfection and layup issues that a plus 1M vessel should not have.

Any new built vessel, whether Selene or another brand will have issues that need to be resolved. A commissioned vessel will have survey and inspection points during the build process to hopefully catch these issues. A spec boat does not have that luxury and will sometimes get pushed out absent sufficient internal and new owner controls.

An auction boat should have a history whether insurance, full write off, owner rejection or bank repo. A where is as is auction without a proper survey and available history is too big a risk IMHO. With a good survey and prior history things may change a bit, but the vessel will always carry an asterisk.

Full disclosure, we came very close to buying a spec new built Selene. Had the sale gone ahead we'd have been quite happy.

Good luck.
sunchaser is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2020, 06:47 AM   #6
Guru
 
menzies's Avatar
 
City: Jacksonville
Country: USA
Vessel Name: SONAS
Vessel Model: Grand Alaskan 53
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 6,252
Is this a one bid and done auction or actual real time bidding?

Kinda wondering how you would work out what to bid if a one time sealed bid process?

Also how did it get 700 hours on the engine and 300 on the gen set if it wasn't accepted?
menzies is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2020, 07:16 AM   #7
Veteran Member
 
City: Denver, NC
Country: United States
Vessel Model: Avalon 24'
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by menzies View Post
Is this a one bid and done auction or actual real time bidding?

Kinda wondering how you would work out what to bid if a one time sealed bid process?

Also how did it get 700 hours on the engine and 300 on the gen set if it wasn't accepted?

I was wondering the same thing.
GlennR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2020, 07:53 AM   #8
Guru
 
Pete Meisinger's Avatar
 
City: Oconto, WI
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Best Alternative
Vessel Model: 36 Albin Aft Cabin
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,377
Im not that pickey. Depending on what it actually sells for I would certainly be interested.

Maybe a full or partial "wrap" would be the answer. They are getting more and more popular these days.

pete
Pete Meisinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2020, 08:25 AM   #9
Veteran Member
 
City: Port Hope
Country: Canada
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by menzies View Post
Is this a one bid and done auction or actual real time bidding?

Kinda wondering how you would work out what to bid if a one time sealed bid process?

Also how did it get 700 hours on the engine and 300 on the gen set if it wasn't accepted?
From the FAQ page, it appears single bid only.
John R M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2020, 08:54 AM   #10
Veteran Member
 
lwarden's Avatar
 
City: San Diego
Country: United States
Vessel Name: North Star
Vessel Model: Lindell 36
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 46
Something is missing from the story. Beautiful boat, I wouldn't be bothered by print through. If it was really bad it can be filled and painted.
__________________
North Star
Lindell 36, Twin 370hp Cummins
lwarden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2020, 08:58 AM   #11
TF Site Team
 
City: Westerly, RI
Country: USA
Vessel Name: N/A
Vessel Model: 1999 Mainship 350 Trawler
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,401
As I see it, the manufacturing defect blew up the sale. The owner probably either walked away or insisted on a different boat. At that point, they put the boat up for auction. A savvy buyer (who happens to be a salvage company) buys it on speculation (and a deep discount) knowing that they can find a buyer for it. The factory can't sell it as new and he dealer doesn't want cash tied up sitting on the lot.

Just speculation on my part.
Shrew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2020, 09:00 AM   #12
Veteran Member
 
lwarden's Avatar
 
City: San Diego
Country: United States
Vessel Name: North Star
Vessel Model: Lindell 36
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 46
Why so many hours on it then?
__________________
North Star
Lindell 36, Twin 370hp Cummins
lwarden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2020, 09:03 AM   #13
Veteran Member
 
Kapn's Avatar
 
City: Annapolis
Country: US
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 31
I feel like I’ve heard fiberglass techs say that print through on a dark hull will happen over time. It may not have been this way at the factory, but resin continues to catalyze or cure and the sun hitting the dark hull will make it worse. There’s a difference between vinylester and polyester resins as well. I think I remember that polyester is cheaper and will continue to change versus vinylester. I wonder if the owner took delivery and after things were changing for the worse they pursued legal action. Either way, it could be a good boat for a new owner. Does the auction let you survey the rest of the boat and seatrial or do you buy it ‘as is’?
Kapn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2020, 09:05 AM   #14
Guru
 
tiltrider1's Avatar
 
City: Seattle
Country: USA
Vessel Name: AZZURRA
Vessel Model: Ocean Alexander 54
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,953
The boat is in a salvage yard. That information alone tells you there is a bigger issue. I wouldn’t bid sight un seen and unless you have surveyor skills I wouldn’t bid with out a survey. As mentioned already, why would Selene let a warranty issue end up here, they wouldn’t, and how did a boat end up with 700 hours. There is a lot more to this story and if it was good, it wouldn’t be in a salvage yard.
tiltrider1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2020, 09:12 AM   #15
Senior Member
 
City: Sausalito CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: GRACE
Vessel Model: Grand Banks 46 EU
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by lwarden View Post
Why so many hours on it then?
Good observation--750+ hours is a fair amount of use.
__________________
Dawdler
Dawdler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2020, 09:57 AM   #16
DDW
Guru
 
City: San Francisco
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 1,234
You can see print through on almost any boat after a few years. The different materials shrink at different rates over time. This is true even of very high end construction. The (temporary) solution is to scuff, surface with a high build primer, block sand, then topcoat with Awlgrip or similar. But don't be surprised if, 5 years on, you see it again. Fiberglass isn't a stable material like metal - it is always moving a bit. A white boat hides it well, a dark color does not.
DDW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2020, 10:05 AM   #17
Guru
 
City: gulf coast
Country: pinellas
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,070
About $50-60K for a white paint job with some good primer and the print through wont show. The whole story doesn't make sense. Even though the boat looks great.
I would want to look very carefully for evidence on sinking.
bayview is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2020, 10:22 AM   #18
Guru
 
Codger2's Avatar
 
City: San Diego
Country: US
Vessel Name: "Sandpiper"
Vessel Model: 2006 42' Ocean Alexander Sedan
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 6,457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Insequent View Post
I'd see it as a lifestyle facilitator..... Someone could well get a pretty nice near-new boat for a bargain price. ..... it might just need a bit of prep, epoxy barrier coat and awlgrip spray.
The minimum bid is listed at 450K, meaning that the salvage yard probably paid significantly less than than and would still make a profit at the low bid price. So they put it up for auction to see how much more they can make.

Bottom line for me would be to get it surveyed prior to the auction deadline, assuming an expert surveyor thinks it's worth considerably more, I would tender a bid above the minimum asking (my decision as to how much) and if successful I would have bought a potentially great boat at a rock bottom price! Print through is not that big a deal & if it's anything worse than that the surveyor will probably find it. The number of hours indicate that someone was running it successfully!

Conclusion: If I were in the market for this type of boat (long distance trawler) and had the financial backup to absorb a complete meltdown on it's condition, given the above, I would certainly take a chance!
__________________
Codger 1941.. Constant pursuit of the ultimate SoCal Cruising boat.
Codger2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2020, 10:51 AM   #19
Guru
 
Pete Meisinger's Avatar
 
City: Oconto, WI
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Best Alternative
Vessel Model: 36 Albin Aft Cabin
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,377
If I was interested I would go directly to the folks at Selene. I am sure they are well aware of the history of this vessel. If they would share the info is another question though.

pete
Pete Meisinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2020, 11:44 AM   #20
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 19,018
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Meisinger View Post
If I was interested I would go directly to the folks at Selene. I am sure they are well aware of the history of this vessel. If they would share the info is another question though.

pete
Bingo...it's a recently built boat and I'd go to them in search of the true history of this boat. If the answer is that the bleed through happened after a good bit of use but was not something they could easily fix and boat couldn't be sold as new boat so their insurer paid for it and then sold it to salvage but that the boat operates fine, then go for it. If everyone is evasive and salvage company has no more detail, then proceed only knowing it's at your risk.
__________________

BandB is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:59 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012
×