From rags to the pot

[mvweebles]

Usually leave either Newport or chessie and next stop is BVI or Antigua. Go south of Bermuda but don’t stop there. Straight shot is so much quicker. Don’t need to fight trades or follow the gentleman’s way. Usually takes 8-12 days. Don’t like the leewards as much as the windwards. Like Bequia a lot.
I’ve never cruised the Bahamas. Have 6’6” empty. Been there by boat twice. A delivery from southwest harbor Maine to man of war cay. That was on a Morris done as a straight shot. And once on a sistership to chicken harbor from USVIs.
So the way to go is
Active fins over fish
Hydraulics over electric (thrusters, fins, AP etc.)
A 30 year old N46,47, 50 is okay if kept up.

?opinions about metal? Most high lat sail is Al. Steel Puffins and Waterlines are well thought of. Also looking at some Steve Seaton.

My experience in the Caribbean/Atlantic stops at Florida, and even then it's not much - just dropping boats and flying home so I don't know the wx patterns. But looking at the charts, first thing that comes to mind is head south to 50-100 nms off Cape Hatteras (Gulf Stream would be something that needs to be figured out). Would add about 300 nms to the trip to BVI but would give options, and you wouldn't show up in BVI needing 800 gals @ Shylock prices.

As far as stabilization, I just replaced mine with new Wesmars. Having push-button control is nice, but if you're really planning on 1500-nm jaunts from Newport to BVI, I'd go with paravanes because they are simpler and more reliable, plus give flopper stopper stability at anchor. Downside is they are manual set/retrieve, though there are normally winches with knee-activated switches to keep your hands free. But you can't run inlets with them out so the tradeoff is convenience (hydraulic) vs simplicity/reliability (fish). But if you're looking at older boats, the decision will already be made for you as it will be equipped already. Not unusual to find a Nordhavn with both Paravanes and Naiads (ABT).

Yes on hydraulics. In my opinion, ABT is the best in the business for this sized thruster and paravane setup.

As far as N46 vs N47 vs N50, I have delivered a handful of both the N46 and N47 from Dana Point to PNW, albeit almost 20-years ago. I have not delivered an N50, but have delivered several N57's, her bigger sister. Not many N50s were made compared to the N46/N47 so options are limited. They are reportedly a relatively fast boat.

In my opinion, the flybridge on the N46/N47 (if equipped) alters the handling considerably. With the flybridge, these boats must be run with stabilizers in all but calm conditions. Best I can tell, few N46's had flybridges, most N47s do, so again, options may be limited. Flybridge sure would be nice in Bahamas.

The N46 is legendary as it absolutely changed long distance powerboating. But she's a relatively small boat for her LOA. Engine room is a bit cramped and the fuel tanks were positioned quite a ways aft so she squats a bit when fully loaded (them moved the fuel tanks late in the production run).

I believe it was with the N50 that PAE introduced their "Maintenance Strakes" which are hull-bump-outs either side of the engine to provide near-standing headroom. At the time, PAE said they actually improved efficiency which is hogwash, but the benefit in the ER is clear and compelling even if there is a fractional efficiency loss. The N47 has a decent engine room and lazarette with plenty of room for equipment. She also benefits from the many, many advances PAE made as a result of their around-the-world run with the N40 around 2000. On the downside, I find the boat a bit slow and the windage means shes even slower in weather. What's slow? 175-180 nm days (in all fairness, N46 is about the same). I would expect the N50 to do a consistent 200 nm day, or at least close.

All good boats. Personally, only because I have such respect for the N57, I'd probably hold-out for an N50 even though I haven't spent any time on one. But, as I insinuated at the outset of this now-long post, I wouldn't do the direct run to BVI - I would minimize risk and only add 1-1/2 days to the 9-day trip by following the coast with a bail-out plan if wx looks lousy. I don't mind a bit of bad weather - have powered through a bunch. But I once spent 5 of 7 days beating my way up the Atlantic/Gulf from Panama to Florida in 25-30 kt winds and short 8-footers and it sucked. A day or so is fine if it gets you to the other side of something, but for vacation time, not my cup of tea. But to each their own.

Hope this helps. Best of luck with your decisions. Given I'm behind a keyboard, nice to live vicariously - thanks Dr H

Peter

 

[Hippocampus]

See the big change in thinking is propulsion on a sailboat is virtually unlimited. One wants to reach or run. Coming home from the windwards island hopping is quite reasonable. You’re going with the trades. Have done BVI then north of abacos then Newport non stop. Don’t like stopping. Either at Bermuda going south or anywhere going north.
Getting to the islands it isn’t reasonable to stay on the shelf. Gulf Stream is against you then the trades are against you. When weather gets snotty dealing with rages or compression zones isn’t safe. Only real deep water is north off PR. It’s often a struggle to get to I-65 ( 65E). Gentlemen don’t beat to Windward. Sure the engine goes on passing the saragasso or other lulls but with 200g I get to Antigua and usually have enough left for most of the season.
Sailboats going East in the islands typically wait for night to travel. Less wind to fight. Particularly during kite season or Xmas winds. Do powerboats do the same?

Diesel gets much less expensive in Trinidad and even Grenada up to St.Lucia. Venezuela is off limits but hear folks do well in Mexico as well. Buy just before you leave for the next island and no tariff in those places.

I’m a biobor fan as the diesel sits in current and prior boats. Figure turnover in a power vessel is much quicker. What’s the typical additives people use? Is a polishing system required once you’re off the beaten track? Or just bring a lot of racors?

 

[mvweebles]

See the big change in thinking is propulsion on a sailboat is virtually unlimited. One wants to reach or run. Coming home from the windwards island hopping is quite reasonable. You’re going with the trades. Have done BVI then north of abacos then Newport non stop. Don’t like stopping. Either at Bermuda going south or anywhere going north.
Getting to the islands it isn’t reasonable to stay on the shelf. Gulf Stream is against you then the trades are against you. When weather gets snotty dealing with rages or compression zones isn’t safe. Only real deep water is north off PR. It’s often a struggle to get to I-65 ( 65E). Gentlemen don’t beat to Windward. Sure the engine goes on passing the saragasso or other lulls but with 200g I get to Antigua and usually have enough left for most of the season.
Sailboats going East in the islands typically wait for night to travel. Less wind to fight. Particularly during kite season or Xmas winds. Do powerboats do the same?

Diesel gets much less expensive in Trinidad and even Grenada up to St.Lucia. Venezuela is off limits but hear folks do well in Mexico as well. Buy just before you leave for the next island and no tariff in those places.

I’m a biobor fan as the diesel sits in current and prior boats. Figure turnover in a power vessel is much quicker. What’s the typical additives people use? Is a polishing system required once you’re off the beaten track? Or just bring a lot of racors?

My patch was Pacific Coast. This Florida thing is a bit new to me even though I've been to the Exumas a couple times. But I don't think many powerboaters take the L65 route - there just isn't a reason to (wind is not your friend), few powerboats have the range, and few sailors come with that type of experience. The big decision for most powerboaters (and frankly a lot of sailors) is ICW vs slip outside for the day (occasionally overnight), so not in the same league as what your're asking. I too like long multi-day legs. I pulled up the current Gulf Stream models and there appears to be a decent counter-current near shore which looks interesting, but maybe there are folks who know a reason that's a bad idea outside of simple preference for the protection of the ICW.

There are a ton of threads on diesel fuel treatment. Any of the boats you're looking at will have a solid polishing system. You will get varied opinions, but for my personal boat, I run Stanadyne stabilizer and that's it. No biobor - key is to keep the water out of the tanks, and leaking deck-plates are a primary source followed closely by taking on contaminated fuel. In the boats you're looking at, you'll be burning around 75-90 gallons a day, so you'll turnover fuel pretty quickly.

On the Pacific side, I used to time my departures to avoid the teeth of the afternoon winds. For example, it's about a 20-22 hour run from Dana Point to Pt Conception/Pt Arguello, a 25-mile stretch well-known for localized high winds near Santa Barbara - 35-50 kts is pretty normal for a couple hours. It really tests the water-tightness of a windows. So I'd leave Dana Point around 10PM to round at well after sunset, but before midnight. Of course, once in a while the winds don't die down and it gets extra-boisterous with steep water in wee-hours, but that was my thinking to reduce risk. Anyone who doesn't time the diurnal winds is nuts.

Peter

 

[Peter B]

Pituitary adenoma would be my first thought. Get an image and prolactin level.

Not sure to what, or to whom this rather strange comment refers, please explain...

Also, as an aside, could I remind folk that it is really good practice when quoting someone else, especially if it was a long post, to once quoted, go in and highlight and delete the more irrelevant bits, and thus cut it down to the key statements to which one is really responding, to shorten it a bit and make it more easily digestible to all. Addressed to no-one in particular, but everyone in general. Just sayin'...

P.S. Also, as this discussion has progressed quite a bit beyond the usual Welcome Mat missive, I've taken the liberty of moving it to General Discussion, where it will gain a wider audience and contributions.

 

[johnrupp]

Not sure to what, or to whom this rather strange comment refers, please explain...

Also, as an aside, could I remind folk that it is really good practice when quoting someone else, especially if it was a long post, to once quoted, go in and highlight and delete the more irrelevant bits, and thus cut it down to the key statements to which one is really responding, to shorten it a bit and make it more easily digestible to all. Addressed to no-one in particular, but everyone in general. Just sayin'...

P.S. Also, as this discussion has progressed quite a bit beyond the usual Welcome Mat missive, I've taken the liberty of moving it to General Discussion, where it will gain a wider audience and contributions.

He was responding to post #20 from dhays.

 

[dhays]

Not sure to what, or to whom this rather strange comment refers, please explain...

Yeah, he was replying to my post. While I knew what he was replying to me post, likely most others would have missed it. No problem.

 

[Caphenning]

Hi all
I’m a retired MD. 7 years I had my first new boat built-an Outbound 46. They’re semi custom boats built for blue water. Prior I owned a one off built for the OSTAR, a Tayana, several Cape Dories, a Pacific Seacraft, a Monitor and a multiple small craft both power and sail. I’ve done multiple Bermuda races, transports from New England to the leewards but the most enthralling has been being captain on the boat of my conception sailing back and forth from New England to the islands and living on her in the windwards and leewards.
With the Outbound we snowbirded mostly with the Salty Dawg Rally sailing from Rhode Island to the Leewards in the fall and back in the spring. So overall have tens of thousands of blue water miles and about the same coastal.
Now wife says it’s time to move on so doing the classic transition from sail to trawler. As always it’s more important to know what you don’t know than what you do know. That’s why I’m here. Figure you guys know more than I and I’m ready to learn.
Once the outbound sells I’ll be looking for something for two to cruise. Want a solid vessel, 1500nm range with 10% reserve, prefer fins, prefer grp but aluminum is fine. A good Fe boat is okay depending on coatings. Have been on Puffins (a Dutch sailboat) where there wasn’t a speck of rust a decade out so know it can be done. As will not be full time liveaboards but rather just for months at time don’t want to break the bank this time around. Been sailing and a boat owner for ~35 years so have basic knowledge and skill set of the typical liveaboard. Know naturally aspirated and turbo but clueless on common rail.
So far like Norhavn, KK, Cherubini (range problematic), Seahorse, and some converted commercial craft. If I hit the lottery I’d be on a Artnautica or Arksen but not this time around. Wife wants something in the 40-50’ range. Not too big that docking is a tight sphincter event but adequate LWL for a decent days work. We much prefer living on the hook and don’t like marinas nor living in a slip.
Look forward to your throwing pearls at me. Thanks all.

If that is what you want, may I suggest you go with a long sailing hull, get rid of the rig and ballast keel replacing it with a gyro stabilizer between the mast step and mid ships. Then up the power and add a pilot house if it doesn’t have one.

Then add an extended bulbous bow that allows a reverse bow to the deck.

This gives you a high speed low drag wave piercing hull with as comfortable of a ride into rough seas as is available. It will also get you the most MPG.

 

[Hippocampus]

If that is what you want, may I suggest you go with a long sailing hull, get rid of the rig and ballast keel replacing it with a gyro stabilizer between the mast step and mid ships. Then up the power and add a pilot house if it doesn’t have one.

Then add an extended bulbous bow that allows a reverse bow to the deck.

This gives you a high speed low drag wave piercing hull with as comfortable of a ride into rough seas as is available. It will also get you the most MPG.

Dashew and now artnautica/Arhsen totally agree with you but you’re looking at58-64 ft. Want smaller. I fart dust. I’ve no interest in a project boat. Been there done that. Know any new to you is enough work So it’s a great idea but will pass. So far a suitable one off, converted commercial craft, N or KK are still the short list. Would do a Fisher 46 or even a 37. Had SHE (south Hants England) and have experience with Rustlers so no reluctance buying British.

 

[Airstream345]

No power boat has an adequate rudder compared to a sailboat.

I respectfully disagree

 

[bligh]

Hi all
I’m a retired MD. 7 years I had my first new boat built-an Outbound 46. They’re semi custom boats built for blue water. Prior I owned a one off built for the OSTAR, a Tayana, several Cape Dories, a Pacific Seacraft, a Monitor and a multiple small craft both power and sail. I’ve done multiple Bermuda races, transports from New England to the leewards but the most enthralling has been being captain on the boat of my conception sailing back and forth from New England to the islands and living on her in the windwards and leewards.
With the Outbound we snowbirded mostly with the Salty Dawg Rally sailing from Rhode Island to the Leewards in the fall and back in the spring. So overall have tens of thousands of blue water miles and about the same coastal.
Now wife says it’s time to move on so doing the classic transition from sail to trawler. As always it’s more important to know what you don’t know than what you do know. That’s why I’m here. Figure you guys know more than I and I’m ready to learn.
Once the outbound sells I’ll be looking for something for two to cruise. Want a solid vessel, 1500nm range with 10% reserve, prefer fins, prefer grp but aluminum is fine. A good Fe boat is okay depending on coatings. Have been on Puffins (a Dutch sailboat) where there wasn’t a speck of rust a decade out so know it can be done. As will not be full time liveaboards but rather just for months at time don’t want to break the bank this time around. Been sailing and a boat owner for ~35 years so have basic knowledge and skill set of the typical liveaboard. Know naturally aspirated and turbo but clueless on common rail.
So far like Norhavn, KK, Cherubini (range problematic), Seahorse, and some converted commercial craft. If I hit the lottery I’d be on a Artnautica or Arksen but not this time around. Wife wants something in the 40-50’ range. Not too big that docking is a tight sphincter event but adequate LWL for a decent days work. We much prefer living on the hook and don’t like marinas nor living in a slip.
Look forward to your throwing pearls at me. Thanks all.

Hi. Welcome. I am curious why you want a 1500 mile range? It seems to me that if you are planning passages that long (or 25% that long) a sailboat with power winches and more automated furling systems would be a better fit for you. I have yet to know of a 40 to 50 ft powerboat that is anywhere near as comfortable in a seaway as a sailboat (or sailing cat)even if it is stabilized.
There is a blog here of a fellow who crossed the Atlantic on his kk42. It was anything but comfortable. He had to change his course all the time and slow the boat down just to withstand the motion of his boat. The boat was not fast at all. Any half decent catamaran would have completed the passage in a third less time.
If you are planning shorter hops with weather windows you could get a faster powerboat with less fuel range and still have a comfortable ride. Your original post along with the plethora of experience you have leaves me wondering why you would want to torture yourself with long extremely uncomfortable boat rides that will take more out of you physically than the boat you are selling.

 

[Hippocampus]

Our current vessel has all powered winches except the two on the mast to handle light air halyards and and the halyards for headsails on roller furlers which are rarely adjusted. All working lines are lead to the cockpit. Watches are stood by one person except when above fresh breeze.
For the last seven years we rarely come into shore. Do come in for fresh produce and fruit. With adequate storage and frig/freezer every few weeks for food. We prefer to provision in the French islands and do the other chores in the English speaking ones. Only do slips for maintenance needs or if we are flying home for awhile. Fuel costs vary widely both in cost and quality so that purchase is time when most favorable. We have two major passages usually done in conjunction with the Salty Dawg Rally. Although the great circle line is 1500nm usually plan for at least 2000nm (And then reserve) to avoid weather or wind direction. Although I’ve yet to need to with sail with power would break it up stopping in Bermuda or taking the long way running the US east coast and just north of the island chain.
There are seasons for weather. The shoulder seasons are when people do passages. Squalls are always a risk but even in a slow sailboat you can miss major events. The longest passage we ever had was 16 days. We diverted south on our way to our usual route south of Bermuda. Ended up 75 m north of the abacos as we hove to for a week to wait for the east coast to clear.
At present still have the mindset of a sailor. I’m sure this will evolve. Believe for any transit coastal or open ocean you should be prepared for at least 1 1/2 times the needs of expected time. Believe being self sufficient dramatically increases your freedom. Find a nice anchorage (no rap music or other loud music/noise, no drunks, good holding, good snorkeling) it’s delightful to stay there. All the fuel troubles I’ve ever had both while in the states, Canada and the islands have been from picking up bad fuel. Only way to avoid that is either stay close to home or be able to pick where to get it. Prefiltering hasn’t worked. The fuel dock just won’t let you do that.
Cruising cats are quite unpleasant in a seaway until they’re over ~45’. They tend to hobbyhorse, slam and snap. Effective cats tend to have narrow hulls, no bridge deck forward of the mast and high clearance of center structure between the hulls. At present Gunboats and Outremers are outside the budget. A decent ocean cat is north of 1m new and >800k used. My dream multi remains a Rapido . Before building the Outbound rented a tri from a friend. Wife hated it so they’re off the list.
Seasickness is quite interesting. Some are more sensitive to low frequency motion (think heavy full keeled boats/ships) others to more high frequency motion. That also enters into boat buying decisions.

 

[FF]

"Any opinions on flopperstoppers versus active fins?"


If you are staying near 1st world areas complex might be fine , but in some areas only flopper stoppers can be repaired with out massive (go home & get the parts) delays.


Some folks have discovered that with a larger FS the fish can be deployed from the rail.


No outriggers , no winches just a good cleat, and perhaps a used 2 speed sail boat winch to being them aboard.

 

[mvweebles]

Bligh is probably right about sticking with a sailboat. Not sure what problem is solved by a trawler

Bligh - do I recall correctly that you are hot on the trail of a Cheoy Lee motorsailor in California? Maybe something like that for Dr. H. Or perhaps the nordhavn 56 motorsailor.

One of the early N47 owners was legendary for not caring about weather and didn't like to stop much either. I remember he got his ass handed to him crossing Gulf of Teuhentepec south of Mexico on Pacific side, an area well known for very high winds that have reportedly rolled ships. It's tempting to go straight across the 135 nm bay even though hugging the beach only adds something like 20 nms. I'm guessing the N47 guy ended up singlehanding a bunch.

Good luck finding the right boat. If the goal is to be underway and anchor, not sure why limit to 50 feet. Bigger would be better. Exception of budget, FPB is the right boat for this.

Peter

 

[mvweebles]

"Any opinions on flopperstoppers versus active fins?"


If you are staying near 1st world areas complex might be fine , but in some areas only flopper stoppers can be repaired with out massive (go home & get the parts) delays.


Some folks have discovered that with a larger FS the fish can be deployed from the rail.


No outriggers , no winches just a good cleat, and perhaps a used 2 speed sail boat winch to being them aboard.

I know FF is aware, but these are paravanes being referenced. Flopper stoppers are used at anchor.

I agree with FFs premise that paravanes would be more reliable and hassle free for long runs in odd places. And I'm speaking as someone with hydraulics

 

[FF]

"I know FF is aware, but these are paravanes being referenced. Flopper stoppers are used at anchor."

Paravanes work at anchor if set to go down more than when underway.

Yes, we should be more careful with nautical language.

For most folks the boating terms take longer to learn than sailing or motoring.

 

[Hippocampus]

Motivation is the bride. Happy wife happy life. Do like the Fisher 37 and especially the 46. Nauticats are off the list due to being EC -B not A so will have troubles getting insurance. However wife was a liveaboard on power for most of her childhood summers. She doesn’t like life on a slant. It’s both more conducive to happiness as well as cheaper to switch boats than get a new wife. Silly me I still love her.

 

[Hippocampus]

Looking at 50’ or < because have access to both a nearly free mooring near the dirt dwelling and a slip at the non transient rate. Both rated at 50’ or less. Long ago found bigger is often limiting and the space is just more to clean/maintain. Believe the sweet spot for mom and pop cruising is 40’ to 50’.
Agree the 64’ is an awesome vessel. Simple things get in the way. Not allowed on the moorings in the USVI National Park. Not allowed in most mooring fields in New England. Very limited slip availability. Opportunities become limited over 60’ and even restricted to some degree over 50’. Need more advance planning. Although we much prefer being on a hook many times you have no real choice and must take a mooring or slip.

 

[FoxtrotCharlie]

Welcome - just get a 65' Fleming and you will be gold.

 

[mvweebles]

The Buehler designs by Seahorse marine (Diesel Duck) often have a decent sail plan. Might be a happy medium for you and your wife. No stabilizers needed, and the sail would put a slight set on your boat, but not a full heel. Lot of testosterone in the design though.

 

[Caphenning]

Dashew and now artnautica/Arhsen totally agree with you but you’re looking at58-64 ft. Want smaller. I fart dust. I’ve no interest in a project boat. Been there done that. Know any new to you is enough work So it’s a great idea but will pass. So far a suitable one off, converted commercial craft, N or KK are still the short list. Would do a Fisher 46 or even a 37. Had SHE (south Hants England) and have experience with Rustlers so no reluctance buying British.

For 1500 mile range you want to be carrying 4000 liters of fuel or more. That’s hard to find room for in a 40’s boat.

 

[Caphenning]

Dashew and now artnautica/Arhsen totally agree with you but you’re looking at58-64 ft. Want smaller. I fart dust. I’ve no interest in a project boat. Been there done that. Know any new to you is enough work So it’s a great idea but will pass. So far a suitable one off, converted commercial craft, N or KK are still the short list. Would do a Fisher 46 or even a 37. Had SHE (south Hants England) and have experience with Rustlers so no reluctance buying British.

For 1500 mile range you want to be carrying 4000 liters of fuel or more. That’s hard to find room for in a 40’s boat.

You don’t need to do the project, just commission it.

 

[mvweebles]

For 1500 mile range you want to be carrying 4000 liters of fuel or more. That’s hard to find room for in a 40’s boat.

You don’t need to do the project, just commission it.

The N40 carries about 900 gallons and obviously has globe girdling range. The N43 looks like a nice compromise. Willard 40s carry 600 gallons and are very efficient and could easily make 1500 nms with adequate reserves. There's a W40 in Wisconsin that is one of the last ones built around 2000 and is stabilized. The owner has had her since almost new and keeps her in a heated garage during winters.

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1999/willard-marine-40-3617588/

 

[Caphenning]

The N40 carries about 900 gallons and obviously has globe girdling range. The N43 looks like a nice compromise. Willard 40s carry 600 gallons and are very efficient and could easily make 1500 nms with adequate reserves. There's a W40 in Wisconsin that is one of the last ones built around 2000 and is stabilized. The owner has had her since almost new and keeps her in a heated garage during winters.

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1999/willard-marine-40-3617588/

Looks like you found your boat.

 

[Knot Fast]

Not sure if this helps, but trying a different “tack”…
Twice the OP has said: “Happy wife, happy life.”
Are you sure you wish to keep making bluewater passages?
I sailed for 40y, and through most of the Caribbean. Bluewater and sailboat are a great combination.
There are Trawlers that excel at bluewater but, as has been said, few that compare favorably to good sailboat.
Are the compromises of that change consistent with “Happy wife…”

I bought a trawler 2y ago to visit different places then I had sailed: ICW, Great Loop, gunk holes, shallow anchorages, USA and Canada coastal communities large and small.
This is coastal cruising at its finest. Draft and air draft are key factors; mine are 3’ and 16’.
Bright, livable space is key – think condo comfort on the hook.
What is your mission profile for the next 5y that achieves “Happy wife…”?

 

[bligh]

Not sure if this helps, but trying a different “tack”…

Twice the OP has said: “Happy wife, happy life.”

Are you sure you wish to keep making bluewater passages?

I sailed for 40y, and through most of the Caribbean. Bluewater and sailboat are a great combination.

There are Trawlers that excel at bluewater but, as has been said, few that compare favorably to good sailboat.

Are the compromises of that change consistent with “Happy wife…”



I bought a trawler 2y ago to visit different places then I had sailed: ICW, Great Loop, gunk holes, shallow anchorages, USA and Canada coastal communities large and small.

This is coastal cruising at its finest. Draft and air draft are key factors; mine are 3’ and 16’.

Bright, livable space is key – think condo comfort on the hook.

What is your mission profile for the next 5y that achieves “Happy wife…”?

Yes. We need to talk to Mrs. H. Just kidding. But Doc it sounds like your wife is done with the 1500 mile passages. If it is comfort she is looking for then you may need to change your cruising style to something more coastal unless you can buy a much larger vessel.

 

[rsn48]

Many are content to go slow all the time, I am content going slow some of the time. Making a quick jump or hitting a narrow weather window or moving quickly to get to my destination in the early stages, going slower in the latter stages is more my kind of boating. I've done enough 7 knots and under with all the sailing I have done.

If you are open to a catamaran (power) check out the Aspen line. They are probably the most economical fuel sippers for any given size of boat and they can move along at a reasonably fast pace when you need it.

Also Cats give you lots more room above so the Aspen 120 (40 feet) is going to feel like a 45 foot mono. There is also a 52 foot Aspen, but I'm of the philosophy - if you can be happy in something smaller, do it - your older self will thank you latter.

Aspen C120 Power Catamaran: A Truly Different Cruising Yacht

A short vid of the 120:

The 180 Aspen (52 feet):

Discover the Aspen C108 Power Catamaran

No video as this model is suppose to be making its debut in 2021.

Remember, its easier to make a fast horse go slow than a slow horse go fast.

 

[sunchaser]

For 1500 mile range you want to be carrying 4000 liters of fuel or more. That’s hard to find room for in a 40’s boat.

A KK 42, 44 or 48 solves the range, size and livability question. A new build N41 fits too. Nordhavn now up to 18 orders with hull #1 yet to be delivered. CE rating tests completed according to Nordhavn. Seasoned cruiser acceptance for N41 points to a "small" blue water trawler awakening. Twins and wet exhaust to boot!

 

[Hippocampus]

Think it’s important to make a list of want you want but more important to make a list of what you don’t want.
I don’t want volvos. Access to parts sucks c/w yanmar, Lugger, cat, Detroit or even Mann. After market service sucks as well.
The dinghy factor is important to me. The dinghy factor is that glow you get looking at your vessel from your dinghy. Although the chris White designs, the M &M designs and the Nigel Irons as well do that for me when speaking Multihulls to date none of the power cats do except the small center console boats for fishing.
I’ve tried to dock a moderate sized multi in a fresh breeze. Couldn’t do it. Don’t have the skill set. Know a very experienced sailor who owned a large CF cat. He lamented his troubles docking as well.
I prefer dry stacks. Have had my issues with mixing elbows, water pumps and heat exchangers. Also get more hp at the shaft.
Range is important. Even if you never get to your 10% reserve range gives you freedom. You can do what you want when you want to do it. Currently have 2 one hundred gallons fresh water tanks. There’s just the two of us. Put in a watermaker. Game changing. View range in the same manner.
Several posts speak to a possible reality I’m having trouble accepting. Once we’re past covid restrictions she wants to travel in a different way. We’ve seen dozens of countries by boat. Now she wants to do it in a more conventional fashion. So the boat will sit more. My pockets are only so deep. I can afford a N52 or an Artnautica but then couldn’t afford the travel plans she has and maintain the house we just built. Also there would be nothing left for the kids.
I very much appreciate these posts. They’re helping me evolve my thinking. Boats are emotional not logical. Sailboats a cold shower ripping up thousand dollar bills. Assume power craft requires a full checkbook and the boat not being ready when you want to leave. Still a cruising sailboat has all the complexities of the myriad systems in a power boat including the engine and then the issues with its primary motive force. Talking with fellow cruisers found annual expenses aren’t that much different. Big difference is how much maintenance you do. How much time in slips. How far you go.
Please keep it coming thanks all.

 

[mvweebles]

I prefer dry stacks. Have had my issues with mixing elbows, water pumps and heat exchangers.


Several posts speak to a possible reality I’m having trouble accepting. Once we’re past covid restrictions she wants to travel in a different way.

Dry stack. I used to lust over dry-stacks too. But someone on this forum recently convinced me that a wet exhaust ain't so bad. As I recall, he was building his second Nordhavn (64? 68? Well past my reality) and specified wet exhaust. In short, his thinking was gear driven water pumps are reliable and easy to service. External heat exchangers are not. I had to agree - the Nordhavns I have been on have massive air blowers. You are as screwed if one of those puppies croaks as a water pump, and it's easier to carry a spare impellor or source a replacement in a smaller port. Something to think about.

As far as accepting reality, the L65 route makes sense for a sailboat because there is a high percentage of favorable wind. Because there is wind, it makes less sense for a powerboat. You can either accept that fact or reject it, but I would caution you against dismissing it without adequately accommodating the risk profile of cruising into the middle of the Atlantic vs a more coastal route that adds just 1-1/2 days to the journey. Jimmy Cornell's World Cruising Route book is barely relevant for powerboats.

Interesting table-top exercise. Keep us posted if this progresses further.

Peter

 

[Frosty]

Dry stack. I used to lust over dry-stacks too. But someone on this forum recently convinced me that a wet exhaust ain't so bad. As I recall, he was building his second Nordhavn

In case the OP wants to read more about that, it is member Twisted Tree whose new Nordhavn will have wet exhaust as a conscious choice vs. his prior dry stack.