Poo-Poo on Garmin!

[Blissboat]

Never having owned anything Garmin, my opinion counts for little. But the last time I shopped for a plotter, I considered Garmin. When even the salesman conceded their reputation for indifferent support for discontinued products, I moved on. Sorry boathealer's experience is bearing out that warning.

After 38 years of using Furuno marine electronics, I'm so satisfied with their quality and service that it's hard to imagine buying anything else. Admittedly they're not always the most user-friendly right out of the box, but over the long haul Furuno gets the job done.

 

[rgano]

My complaint with Garmin is not the quality of the hardware, or their UI, both of which are better than average in the industry. My complaint is with their product support, which is dead last, in an industry with an already low standard for product support.

My complaint with Garmin is everything. Lightly used radar magnetron failed twice in several years. Then there's what they did to AC..... Fifteen year old Furuno suite on present boat performs every time all day long.

 

[Mike Holleman]

A very wise CEO made a statement several years back that I used as a model in my business. " When a customer complains they are doing you the best possible favor by allowing you to serve them twice." Lee Iacocca.

 

[EngNate]

Note to touch screen owners: Insure that your units are off and stay off when the cover is in place. I observed an issue that would cause a touch screen to fail early. I'm working on a boat with two 7616s and a 7612, and one of the 7616s always powers up when power is applied. So, I found this unit had been ON for some time with the sun cover in place, and the screen was very warm, like around 110F or more. Boat is shut down and bridge supply turned off, then gets turned on again and left and the unit may stay on and covered for weeks. It is normal for these units to come on at power up if they were on when power is turned off, but this one always comes on.

 

[Nepidae]

Poo-Poo on Garmin

First, just to set the record straight, a new 7612 is $3,200 the xsv model is $3,700. By my calculations, that's about a 1/3, nor 1/2.

Second, 3yrs of pampering in the pilothouse with sun beating down on it and maybe even high temps as well. Not the best environment.

I'm basically saying that there may be parts of this story left out.

Did you have a Garmin tech do the install. IF so at 3yrs it would be under warranty. IF you, or your buddy or a PO put in the Garmin product(s) it's only a 2yr warranty. They do that for a reason. How long do other manufactures provide warranties for?

You will hear of the other manufacturers providing support that would put most companies into bankruptcy, understand, they don't do that for everyone.

I had a 7612xsv that I sold last yr at 3yrs old, the buyer is still using it.

Also, not sure how you approached Garmin but I've always had great luck with them. Had a compass replaced after 3yrs (all my stuff was put in by Garmin Techs).

BTW, when I sold the 7612xsv I replaced it with the 8616xsv.

You should also consider, Navionics is the leader in charts. Usually undisputed by most. Guess what charts are in Garmin, Navionics. Check and see what cartography Raymarine or others use, isn't that why you buy a chartplotter, for the cartography.

Garmin doesn't develop the best stuff, they buy it and incorporate it into the Garmin line. Navionics is an example.

Sorry to rain on your parade but since I've had nothing but exceptional service and great support and I think that people should know that side of the coin as well.

Maybe a change to another product will show you how good you had it.

Good luck.

 

[BandB]

I'd suggest one issue with all brands that is worth thinking of is who you're buying from. Do you look for whoever will sell it to you cheapest, wherever they are and whether they provide service or not.

Sometimes manufacturers will say "yes" when dealers say "no", but other times it's the dealers who will go out of their way to say "yes."

 

[FF]

The secret to happiness with electronics is to buy used working Furuno .

That is if your hobby is using / cruising your boat.

If electric repairing is the hobby , there are plenty of other brands to consider.

Bestitits is still another hobby.

 

[CaptTom]

Garmin doesn't develop the best stuff, they buy it and incorporate it into the Garmin line. Navionics is an example.

Garmin isn't the first company to use this strategy.

It doesn't generally work out well for the consumers.

Once they've bought the innovator (think DeLorme or ActiveCaptain) they've eliminated the threat to their business model. They can lay off all the development staff and continue to suck in revenue from the (now dying) innovative product.

Oh, sure, they could also continue to improve and innovate. But that's not Garmin's way. Or most large corporations.

 

[boathealer]

OP here - some additional info below.

Second, 3yrs of pampering in the pilothouse with sun beating down on it and maybe even high temps as well. Not the best environment.

My pilothouse helm is not in any direct sunlight except in some rare cases of sidelight. "Not the best environment"? Really?!?! This is a marine electronics manufacturer for cryin' out loud! That's laughable. There are 7612 displays running just fine everywhere on fishing boats with wide open T-tops....

I'm basically saying that there may be parts of this story left out.

There is nothing left out - a complete transcript of my chat with Garmin printed below (didn't want to do this).

A known, failed component of a system that is a $20 part (I know this - I have 35+ years as an electronics design engineer in the consumer product market).

Go to The Hull Truth and search on "Garmin touchscreen failure" or similar and you will find lots of failures across several product lines.

This is nothing about the Garmin product line (or others). It is about a poor business practice in supporting a known problem. It is ridiculous for a manufacturer of supposed "quality" equipment. Yes, it is their choice. They are certainly entitled to their business model. Great.

.........Also my choice to post "Poo-Poo on Garmin". So there.

Did you have a Garmin tech do the install. IF so at 3yrs it would be under warranty. IF you, or your buddy or a PO put in the Garmin product(s) it's only a 2yr warranty. They do that for a reason. How long do other manufactures provide warranties for?

A reputable ABYC yard tech performed the install for the PO of the boat - I have all receipts. I am 42 months from that date.

For transparency and completeness, below is the full chat transcript I had with Garmin. I even tried to buy the failed component from them and repair it myself.

I am now armed with a new $799 display with touchscreen from China and a youtube video and will fix it myself.

Completely ridiculous in my opinion, but entirely up to the business. I can, however, poo-poo on them all I want......

-------------------

James:
I got it wqas under your name
3N1002277:
Thanks
James:
Based on the serial number the unit is outside of warranty
James:
DO you have a receipt within the last two years?
3N1002277:
No, the units were installed by the previous owner in 2016. I do have receipts from that installation.
James:
That would still be outside warranty
James:
I can look at what our flat rate repair fee is one minute
James:
We can repair the unit for $1000
James:
it will take 10-14 business days
3N1002277:
Wow! Apparently this is a repeating failure according to the boating community on the internet. I find it hard to believe that Garmin would charge that amount for something like this. Is there nothing else that can be done, specific to this type of failure?
James:
There is no repeating failure of the touch screens on that unit
James:
We offer this flat rate repair fee if you would like to take advantage of it
3N1002277:
Granted, the touch screen failures I read about were on a 74xx, but they are the same component. Do I have to pay 1/3 to 1/2 the price of a entirely new unit to repair? This is the only option?
James:
That is the only way we can get your unit working.
3N1002277:
I am out cruising, and don't have a fixed address that I can predict out 10-14 days. Do you have a purchase/exchange program that you can charge me a full price and then refund part upon receipt of my returned unit?
James:
We do not have any replacement units that we can send you out immediately
James:
otherwise that would be a possibility
James:
I checked into that already
3N1002277:
May I buy the touchscreen component/overlay from you?
James:
We do not sell that part to consumers only our service centers
3N1002277:
How can we make an exception in this case?
James:
If you had a receipt where you bought the unit inside the last tow years we could cover it under warranty
James:
28
James:
sorry I meant two years
3N1002277:
I understand that. I would like to PURCHASE the touchscreen overlay component. Is there a manager that I can speak to to allow for this purchase?
James:
No it is not possible for you to purchase that. No one can purchase that type of item other than a Garmin certified service center. There are absolutely no exceptions on that.
James:
My manager/team lead would tell you the same
3N1002277:
I will not pay $1000 to fix a failed device that has been pampered for 3 years. All of this is really not acceptable. I really don't want to add my voice disparaging Garmin on the internet along with the others that thought the $1000 flat fee was quite excessive. Please give me another option.
James:
Do you have a picture of the screen?
3N1002277:
Yes, I can take one right now. It powers up to Sonar screen - is that what you want?
James:
take it will its off
3N1002277:
OK
James:
You can reply to the email I just sent you
James:
I dont think it will let you put a picture in the chat window
3N1002277:
Is there an email I can send to?
3N1002277:
OK
James:
did you find it?
3N1002277:
Yes. I have just sent photos to that address.
3N1002277:
Thank you again.
James:
I want to see what the screen looks like. I am waiting on the email to come through
3N1002277:
OK. Thank you. My outbox says "sent". Let me know if you don't see it shortly.
James:
Unfortunately there is nothing I can offer other than what we have already discussed. We can repair the unit for $1000.
3N1002277:
I understand you are limited in what the company offers you to make available to this support center. If there is no higher-level decision that can be made, I will have to replace with another manufacturer and make my dissatisfaction known. I would hope Garmin would re-think this policy as it is becoming known throughout the marine industry and is completely unacceptable. Again, I understand that YOU are limited in what you can authorize, but Garmin is making a very big mistake here.
James:
I am sorry about the inconvenience. This has been our policy for the last ten years at least.
3N1002277:
I understand that. It's not the flat rate that is the problem, it's 1/2 the cost of a new unit that is the problem. I have had other Garmin products repaired at flat rate in the past (over) 10 years and none of them even came close to $1000. Again, thank you for your time.
James:
Have a good day
James:
I hope that I was able to help you today. Please re-contact us if you require further assistance.

 

[BandB]

James:
Have a good day
James:
I hope that I was able to help you today. Please re-contact us if you require further assistance.[/I]

Wifey B: Oh god I hate that last part. My response, "I'm not f...ing having a good day dealing with your piece of ^%& and total lack of help and don't hope me that you were able to help me, you know ^%@ well you didn't help me at all and I hate canned responses that don't even acknowledge that so you can just

and



and you have a nice day sweetie.

 

[DDW]

You should also consider, Navionics is the leader in charts. Usually undisputed by most. Guess what charts are in Garmin, Navionics. Check and see what cartography Raymarine or others use, isn't that why you buy a chartplotter, for the cartography.

A rather HUGE advantage to Raymarine is that you can use many different charts. Navionics, CMap, NOAA, CHS, and numerous others, at the same time. Not true of Garmin, last I checked.

 

[Larry M]

A rather HUGE advantage to Raymarine is that you can use many different charts. Navionics, CMap, NOAA, CHS, and numerous others, at the same time. Not true of Garmin, last I checked.

Hopefully whoever buys Raymarine can keep them viable. Flir is selling them it looks like. It would be too bad to loose a major player in the field.

https://www.ibinews.com/mergers-acquisitions-and-exits/flir-to-sell-off-raymarine/35798.article

 

[catalinajack]

What did Garmin do to Active Captain that was so bad? I see this comment often. What have I missed? It seems to function pretty much in the same way as before.

My complaint with Garmin is everything. Lightly used radar magnetron failed twice in several years. Then there's what they did to AC..... Fifteen year old Furuno suite on present boat performs every time all day long.

 

[BandB]

What did Garmin do to Active Captain that was so bad? I see this comment often. What have I missed? It seems to function pretty much in the same way as before.

1. When they handled the changeover of software, it was a mess. Just wouldn't work right for a while.

2. Reviews stopped for a while and still haven't picked up to previous pace.

3. Eliminated the ability to do routes within AC and did away with all the routes some people had saved. Also, lost ability to measure distances on AC itself. I think they assumed people would only use it with charting software, not on a stand alone basis.

Overall, after a lot of issues, they got it working ok. However, the kind of problems they had initially and with the new software give people a very bad taste initially and make it hard to overcome. I still find AC very useful and continue to use it.

 

[catalinajack]

Yes, I do remember all of that but, as a former software developer, the period time over which that occured considering the challenge they faced integrating the old with the new I really didn't find it at all unusual. Sometimes software is rolled out after extensive testing only to discover bugs that not become apparent in the test phase. It is impossible to make it perfect no matter how extensive the testing. Think about it. Apple, which many think to be a quality product, is continually updating their operating system often because a new bug or security flaw has been discovered. From the outside looking in, the Active Captain integration looks to have been a debacle. It is more likely the case that it was a difficult project fraught with challenges that took time to work through. Software development is challenging work.

1. When they handled the changeover of software, it was a mess. Just wouldn't work right for a while.

2. Reviews stopped for a while and still haven't picked up to previous pace.

3. Eliminated the ability to do routes within AC and did away with all the routes some people had saved. Also, lost ability to measure distances on AC itself. I think they assumed people would only use it with charting software, not on a stand alone basis.

Overall, after a lot of issues, they got it working ok. However, the kind of problems they had initially and with the new software give people a very bad taste initially and make it hard to overcome. I still find AC very useful and continue to use it.

 

[rgano]

What did Garmin do to Active Captain that was so bad? I see this comment often. What have I missed? It seems to function pretty much in the same way as before.

And another thing they did was eliminate the route sharing capability where you could post a number of GPX files for others to pickup.

 

[Olebird]

I have been able to buy repair parts from authorized Garmin service centers for aviation product lines - no experience with marine products lines.

Of late I just buy from China oem directly - same products - different labels.

Henry Ford school of customer service - "any color the customer wants - long as its black!"

 

[CaptTom]

And another thing they did was eliminate the route sharing capability where you could post a number of GPX files for others to pickup.

I was willing to forgive Garmin wanting to start fresh with a new web-based system. The old one had some flaws, like not being compatible with the new EU privacy regulations and, if I recall correctly, using Flash.

So, yes, they slapped the replacement together quickly. That would have been understandable.

But enough time has elapsed now, with absolutely NO improvements, that it's clear Garmin is doing what Garmin always does. Focusing on the next acquisition, and spending no development resources on the current product line.

Pretty much as we all expected. I was honestly hoping this time would be different. Now I'm just waiting for my DeLorme InReach to become unusable.