Medium Range cruising

[Codger2]

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I’ve been on a lot of boats and when they get above 50 they just seem to get to be a lot for two people. I know there’s people who are perfectly comfortable with it but it just becomes a lot of maintenance and a lot of boat to handle for two people imo. The thing is is 50 feet is a somewhat arbitrary number obviously. And boats are very different. A 47 foot Nordhavn is a hell of a lot of boat compared to 47 foot Grand Banks. Just a lot more tonnage and systems etc. With that comes peace of mind and the ability to go anywhere, but it also becomes a lot to handle and maintain.


It’ll be primarily my wife and I with visits from the kids occasionally so an extra state room would be a must. I think the 40 to 50 foot range is the sweet spot. Big enough to have large tankage to give us the range were looking for but not so big that it becomes hard to handle. If we found one we like and it is 53 feet we wouldn’t hesitate, but generally speaking I’m trying to stay below 50.

My intention is to buy used. Not sure I want the responsibility for picking all the systems etc. that are required with a new build. Also just think there’s better value in used boats.

As far as my experience, we own smaller boats currently. I live on the water and spend a lot of time on it. We have chartered several 40+ foot boats. I am far from an expert but am very comfortable on boats and I am a reasonably competent seaman.

A 55 is not a lot harder to handle than a mid 40s boat......Forget the Nordy,(Remember your not crossing oceans) and the 47 GB has more of what you said you want....there is definitely more bang for the buck in buying a well maintained used boat.

Good luck on your hunt & please remember that we were commenting on "what you said you want."

 

[Woodland Hills]

If the lack of a lower helm is a deal breaker then what about 58’ to 63’ motor yacht with a cockpit and fly bridge helm? Also the 65’ Hatteras sportfisher has an air conditioned and fully enclosed upper helm with room for the whole gang. And an inside stairway in many.

As far as being too complex, a 70’ boat has the same systems as a 50’ boat. They just have better access and more space for servicing them. The only time you notice the size in a negative way is in the marina: renting a slip and occasionally maneuvering around. At anchor or at sea having a bigger boat is a definite advantage in how well you handle wakes and waves. Why not be as comfortable as possible? We are 70’ LOA and 100k lbs, this winter in the Exumas we were hardly moving when smaller boats were pitching so hard their bottoms were showing in the swells at George Town harbor. While they were hunkered down below holding on I was in the galley making ice cream!

 

[DavidM]

Let's talk a bit about what the OP means by "Medium Range Cruising" and what characteristics would be required for such a boat.

If I can interpret the OP's requirement, he wants a boat that can do the Bahamas, the Caribbean, cross the Panama Canal and make it up to Baja and maybe SoCal. That is a far cry from a blue water passagemaker since the longest leg to do this sort of thing is maybe two days. With today's weather forecasting, you don't need totally self sufficient, handle any weather (short of a hurricane) capability.

So two main characteristics required are fuel supply, probably 500 gallons for a 45-50'er and dynamic stabilization. The latter is for comfort but comfort is important.

Why 500 gallons. Well a 45-50'er will probably burn 1 gallon per NM at 10 kts. With 500 gallons that gives you a comfortable horizon of about 400 NM which covers the longest run you can expect in the Caribbean- Key West to Cancun or Grenada to Caracas.

So lots and lots of boats meet those criterion or can easily be retrofitted with dynamic stabilization.

The search goes on.

David

 

[mvweebles]

Why 500 gallons. Well a 45-50'er will probably burn 1 gallon per NM at 10 kts. With 500 gallons that gives you a comfortable horizon of about 400 NM which covers the longest run you can expect in the Caribbean- Key West to Cancun or Grenada to Caracas.

So lots and lots of boats meet those criterion or can easily be retrofitted with dynamic stabilization.

20+ years ago, I had a dock-mate who did San Francisco to Sea of Cortez and down to Acapulco on a Uniflite 48, which is a 42-foot ACMY with a 6-foot cockpit extension. He carried about 500-gallons of diesel in tanks and I think another 200 in a bladder. He did indeed get around 1nmpg at about 8-9 kts. So while I don't remember how he got fuel along the mid-stretch of Baja, he obviously did as his range along is a bit short to get from Ensenada to Cabo, about 800 nms, probably Turtle Bay and it may not have been a pretty fuel transfer.

• Key West to Cancun is almost 400 nms (against the Gulf Stream)
• Pt Antonio Jamaica to Panama is almost 600 nms
• Providencia ($$$$) to Panama is around 600 nms
• Puerto Rico to ABC Islands ($$$$) is around 400 nms
• Cabo to Turtle Bay is around 400 nms (and current fuel price is reported at around $9.50/gal!!!)

Point being is these are some long stretches on a boat with 500 nms marginal range. Could it be done? I suppose. Would I buy a boat with 500 gals tankage with that trip in mind? No way. If I were in the OP's shoes, would be 1000g minimum and plan some slow stretches to conserve fuel. But hey, I like life at Jogging Speed - my Willard 36 wouldn't do 9-kts with a pair of Pratt & Whitney engines bolted to her deck.

Peter

 

[gt7834a]

20+ years ago, I had a dock-mate who did San Francisco to Sea of Cortez and down to Acapulco on a Uniflite 48, which is a 42-foot ACMY with a 6-foot cockpit extension. He carried about 500-gallons of diesel in tanks and I think another 200 in a bladder. He did indeed get around 1nmpg at about 8-9 kts. So while I don't remember how he got fuel along the mid-stretch of Baja, he obviously did as his range along is a bit short to get from Ensenada to Cabo, about 800 nms, probably Turtle Bay and it may not have been a pretty fuel transfer.

• Key West to Cancun is almost 400 nms (against the Gulf Stream)
• Pt Antonio Jamaica to Panama is almost 600 nms
• Providencia ($$$$) to Panama is around 600 nms
• Puerto Rico to ABC Islands ($$$$) is around 400 nms
• Cabo to Turtle Bay is around 400 nms (and current fuel price is reported at around $9.50/gal!!!)

Point being is these are some long stretches on a boat with 500 nms marginal range. Could it be done? I suppose. Would I buy a boat with 500 gals tankage with that trip in mind? No way. If I were in the OP's shoes, would be 1000g minimum and plan some slow stretches to conserve fuel. But hey, I like life at Jogging Speed - my Willard 36 wouldn't do 9-kts with a pair of Pratt & Whitney engines bolted to her deck.

Peter

This is part of my struggle. I want a boat with at least 1000 nm range, but I’d like it to be under 50 feet. Finding that is possible but it’s been a bit of a challenge. I understand on these long stretches I’m gonna have to go slow, which is fine. I would prefer to be eight or nine knots instead of six, but I understand that might not be possible.

I would definitely rather not buy 500 gallons of $10 per gallon fuel

 

[menzies]

Not that I am at all biased!

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1999/grand-alaskan-60-3249720/

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2007/grand-alaskan-2007-raised-pilothouse-3680646/

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2001/defever-grand-alaskan-raise-pilothouse-trawler-3642639/

 

[KnotYet]

This is part of my struggle. I want a boat with at least 1000 nm range, but I’d like it to be under 50 feet. Finding that is possible but it’s been a bit of a challenge. I understand on these long stretches I’m gonna have to go slow, which is fine. I would prefer to be eight or nine knots instead of six, but I understand that might not be possible.

I would definitely rather not buy 500 gallons of $10 per gallon fuel

The smaller Nordies (43-47) will fit the bill and not break your budget.
You might find a N50 for well under $1M, too.
If you can bear 52', the Seahorse 52 LRC is hard to beat at that price point
and can be had with twins that add some speed.

 

[firehoser75]

I try to like the tug style boats because they do seem to check a lot of boxes but I just do not like how they look. Maybe I can get over it. I need to get on one and check them out.

The Tug look is not for everyone, but they do tend to grow on you I know of a small floatilla of American Tug 34's that went down the west coast of North America, through the Panama Canal, and then over to Florida. All of them made it with no issues and none were stabilized as far as I know. So, their big brother (who has stabilization) should be fine for what you are proposing.
The KK 52 is definitely "off shore" capable and would easily do what you are asking, except the ability to achieve over 10 knots.
You have received many other great suggestions, so, keep an open mind, and good boat hunting.

 

[DavidM]

gt7834a:

On a recent 1,000 mile coastal delivery of a 42' sundeck trawler we traveled at 8 kts and burned 6 gph in twin Cummins 210 hp engines. So I am guessing that 10 kts might take 10 gph for a 45'er. That boat had 420 gallons of diesel storage and would be marginal for the medium range cruising that you are planning.

As you note, finding 1,000 gallons of diesel storage in a 45-50' boat will be difficult unless you go with a real passagemaker like the Nordhavn. Then you are spending much more money.

So think about where you really want to go and if a bladder would accommodate the long passages.

David

 

[mvweebles]

Nordhavn 50 is a relatively fast boat, but that means 9-kts. In the cruising world, 200 nm days is pretty fast and probably burns 4.5gph. There were only about 30 of these built so not many come up for sale. They carry 1300+ gallons of diesel. When they do come up for sale, they are often well equipped.

A relatively small 50-footer. But ticks a lot of boxes. I am not a fan of the boxy Nordhavn's that came afterward such as the N47.

This boat is sold but there's a decent description and pictures.

https://nordhavnonly.com/listings/grey-goose-nordhavn-50/

Good luck!

Peter

 

[Southern Boater]

Agreed. As I read the OPs request I immediately thought he just described a Fleming. Several listed here that are well below $1M that would fit the bill.

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats-for-sale/make-fleming/model-55/

If you have some time watch Tony Fleming's videos on YouTube. Venture went from the Aleutians to the Sea of Cortez to the Galapagos Islands, through the Panama Canal, up the other side, along the Loop, Nova Scotia and beyond.

Couldn’t agree more, possibly one of the best looking boats on the market and a proven performer.
Tony’s movie making skills are also highly commendable, I enjoy watching and listening to his comments. Like his boats, all class....

 

[micksbuddy]

I agree with those above who say that the OP's list of desired features sound just like a Fleming. I'd suggest checking out the boats that Burr Yacht Sales has listed and see if any of them work for you.

 

[JohnS]

Not what the OP was looking for, but seems to be a good deal in that size range, with recently rebuilt Perkins engines and 1000 gal fuel tanks. A 47 ft Cheoy Lee LRC at $225K. 1985. Good pics. @boattrader.com .

Sorry, could not get the links to post

Or, for an offshore cruiser at $ 685K, a 2001 Cheoy Lee Expedition 70, on Yachtworld, with 2400 gal fuel, 9 knot cruise, 69 fl LOA 144K displacement

Good luck with your search. JohnS

 

[Capt. Kirk]

Like a lot of folks on the thread, I also love the Fleming 55. No better lines anywhere.
It's a fabulous boat. They have built the 55 footprint for 30 years or so which has allowed them the luxury of making subtle modifications and refinements rather than introducing new models (although now they've done that too).
My experience was that even when there were Fleming 55's on the market months ago, there wasn't a really good one to be had for under $1M. Those that were available between $500K and $1M were older vintage, kind of tired and had 3208 / 375 Cats with 5000 plus hours. The guys at Fleming strongly recommend buying the newest hull number you can afford. When you go thru the differences in the boats, it makes perfect sense. I was convinced I wanted the new vinylester, new davit, Burrwood and a common rail engine features. I was looking at $1.1M and up. And for now that's out of my budget so, I'm still looking. If I recall Hull 150 and later have the new vinylester. Burrwood - their beautiful faux teak product was introduced at around hull 180 (2007), although some older boats were retrofit with it too. Be aware Burrwood must be waxed and then re-sprayed with clear cost every 7 years. Two other boats I looked at I can highly recommend in the $1M price range are an OA 60 Trawler - only a handful were built and one is about to come on the market in the Chesapeake. She is in showroom condition, has Cat C-9's and can push 12 knots if you want to burn a lot of fuel. Asking $1.1M. If your interested I could put you directly in touch with the owner. Really nice, knowledgable guy. Another is that 52' Kadey Krogen mentioned above asking 1.2M. She's gorgeous. The only reason she's priced a few hundred K lower than others is she is single screw and deeper draft - 5'5" I believe. In the $500 to 700K range I like the Krogen 48 and 44 and GB 52 Europa. As suggested above, you can always paint the brightwork. If you really need the turn of speed you can go with the 52 Krogen Express. Call Bill Harris at KK.

 

[menzies]

Like a lot of folks on the thread, I also love the Fleming 55. No better lines anywhere.

Art DeFever would agree.

 

[Ruffryder]

Fleming, Marlow, Selene, even a newer Sea horse.

 

[tekdiver]

For what you say you want to do, If it were me I'd buy an older fleming 55 for less than $1Mil & put it in top shape. Huge cockpit that is covered by the boat deck, 1000 gals of fuel, speed in the teens, great resale value & a stunning interior.

That,s my wife's dream boat they did vids of the new 65 cruising up to Alaska and my wife went nuts. Bit out of my retirement
budget

 

[OldDan1943]

That,s my wife's dream boat they did vids of the new 65 cruising up to Alaska and my wife went nuts. Bit out of my retirement
budget

So wife is hunting a new husband?

 

[OldDan1943]

50+, 60+ feet boats???
Meanwhile in my world, my 34ft AT is working out fine. Granted a 42AT would be nicer but, I'm happy.

 

[timb7734]

Yea, well Art Defever and Tony Fleming aside, my experience on a 55 Fleming was that it was a wet boat. I’d stick with the Kady Krogen or Nordhavn and give up the perceived extra speed for seaworthiness.

 

[FernandoBrazil]

New Suggestion

A boat to be considered is definetely a Selene and, whith this respect, even the 36 (which in fact is a 41), with 500 gallons of fuel, a huge and comfortable aft cabin, may well fit into your cruising plans. Mine is a rare example of a stablized 36, 2004 bought from the original italian owner, and equipped with twin 230hp Cummins with only 650 hours. Another piece of advice: worth having a look at european boats, as they usually have lower hours, and the electrical systems are not a problem if you are cruising the US or the Caribean (the reverse is a problem). In this sense, there are also some offers of Flemings as well in that region. My yatch broker is a very nice gentleman called Jayme, at Trawlers @ Yatching.

 

[Ross Macdonald]

The salon of a 55 fleming is quite small because of a relatively narrow beam and broad walkarounds. Also the master is in the bow. Also Tony Fleming has a 65 Fleming which is a totally different animal. Way beamier, way more fuel. But until the later ones were built the 65 still did not have a mid ship master stateroom either. I have spent time on both of these models and there is no comparison. They have now of course, come up with a new 58 with more beam, more fuel and midship master than the 55. Just my 2 cents. Ross

 

[Ruffryder]

There is NO perfect boat...
Every boat is a compromise.

 

[leeman]

The salon of a 55 fleming is quite small because of a relatively narrow beam and broad walkarounds. Also the master is in the bow. Also Tony Fleming has a 65 Fleming which is a totally different animal. Way beamier, way more fuel. But until the later ones were built the 65 still did not have a mid ship master stateroom either. I have spent time on both of these models and there is no comparison. They have now of course, come up with a new 58 with more beam, more fuel and midship master than the 55. Just my 2 cents. Ross

My thoughts also. Flemings are not widebodies so you lose relative space in the saloon. KK 52 if you don't need the speed.

 

[menzies]

Yea, well Art Defever and Tony Fleming aside, my experience on a 55 Fleming was that it was a wet boat. I’d stick with the Kady Krogen or Nordhavn and give up the perceived extra speed for seaworthiness.

The only times I have ever heard of a boat being termed a "wet boat" was regarding center consoles and other smaller fishing boats.

When you say "wet boat" in this case, what exactly are you referring to - what did you experience?

 

[rslifkin]

The only times I have ever heard of a boat being termed a "wet boat" was regarding center consoles and other smaller fishing boats.

When you say "wet boat" in this case, what exactly are you referring to - what did you experience?

I've always thought of my boat as being somewhat wet. Going into a head sea on plane, it throws lots of spray. A lot gets deflected outwards by the hull flare, but a lot still makes it above the deck line. So if you're not straight into the wind, it's pretty much waterworld with tons of spray being blown right onto the windshields, etc. and leaving the whole boat soaked.

 

[OldDan1943]

A tendency to bury the bow into the waves.
Even my N46 could be considered a wet boat if going into big waves. A bit more than spray on the windshield .... more like big drops or small sheets of water against the windshield.
It just added to the excitement of the storm.... Of course the boat was also stabilized too. I had great faith in my boat.

 

[Codger2]

I've always thought of my boat as being somewhat wet. Going into a head sea on plane, it throws lots of spray. A lot gets deflected outwards by the hull flare, but a lot still makes it above the deck line.

I think a good example of a boat that's not a "wet boat" is the Ocean Alexander 42 Sedan. (This is the model I drive and one of many reasons that I like this boat.) Molded in spray rails on the hull really throw the spray away from the boat. (See video below @ :28 & 2:00)
On some boats that have no spray deflection , molded in or added, the water climbs the hull and soaks the boat. (I won't go in to those models that have a propensity to do this.) The video shows an OA with molded in spray deflection while the photos shows spray rails that have been added. I know that the great majority of TFers know this but I mention it for the newbies who might not.
Note: Any boat will be wet in very windy conditions.

 

[firehoser75]

As suggested before, the Kadey Krogen 52 carries 1400 gallons of fuel and burns little per hour (usually single engine). However, being a true full displacement, cruising speed will be about 8 knots. It offers a flybridge, also a raised pilothouse with portugese bridge, guest stateroom, 2 heads, and a relatively "wide body" salon (only one side deck). A great boat, capable of blue water if desired.
Just saying, other than not being able to meet the slightly higher speed you say you desire, it meets all of the items you stated were important.

 

[OldDan1943]

I agree with the below: (if the pictures are current) If you have the skill and experience.

Agreed. As I read the OPs request I immediately thought he just described a Fleming. Several listed here that are well below $1M that would fit the bill.

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats-for...ming/model-55/