Down East Loop tips needed

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JBMACQ

Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2023
Messages
12
Vessel Name
Hummingbird
Vessel Make
Fleming 65 commissioned in 2023
This is my first post. My wife and I are commissioning our new Fleming 65 in April/May 2023 in Edgewater, MD at Burr Yacht Sales.
Our plan is to orient to the new boat in the Chesapeake for a couple of weeks and then head to Prince Edward Island via New York City and the Hudson River and return to Edgewater.
Any tips for first-timers would be appreciated especially places to see along the route. We are very excited about this new phase in our life and approaching with a learning mind.
After showing our boat at FLIBS in October '23 as the most recent example of a new Fleming 65, our plan is to locate the boat in the West Indies for a couple of years and then relocate the boat to the Mediterranean indefinitely.
 
Congrats on the new boat. You must be very excited.


We did the Downeast Loop in 2012, and our blog for the trip can be found starting here


https://www.mvtanglewood.com/2012/05/plan-complete-downeast-loop.html


There are three routes from Albany/Troy, NY to Quebec City. Have you sorted out which you want to take? With each of these routes it will be important to check the water draft, air draft, and possible boat length limits. Your boat will be one of, if not the biggest boat going through any of these routes. We were in a Grand Banks 47 and were one of the biggest boats we saw the whole time.


The three routes are:


1) Continue up the Hudson to the Champlain Canal, through Lake Champlain, then the Sorrel (I think that's the name) waterway to the St Lawrence. You enter the St Lawrence between Montreal and Quebec City, so will need to back track if you want to visit Montreal. The Champlain Canal has a low bridge of 17' or so and you will need to be sure you can get under it. I have only been through one of the Champlain lock, but all the lock on this route appear small and charming.


Both of the next routes you take the Erie Canal to the Oswego Canal into Lake Ontario. Then the routes diverge.


2) Take the St Lawrence straight out to the ocean. You will go through the Thousand Islands region which is very nice, but the rest of the way you will be going through the big commercial locks on the St Lawrence. We found them quite unpleasant. There is nothing charming about them or the surrounding areas. It's all business, and as a pleasure boat, you are the lowest priority for locking through. Assuming it still works the same way (but check), each morning the locks operations would publish lock times for pleasure boats. You need to then zip on over and tie up to wait for the time. But don't expect the schedule to hold. And changes in commercial operations will impact your schedule. You might go through right away, or you might wait 6 hours. All of this means that you need to stage each day close to the lock so you can make an early scheduled lock through, and you need to be prepared to stay the night not far downstream from the lock in case you can't lock through until late in the day. Because of all this, we did NOT take this route.


3) Go to Kingston, ON and take the Rideau up to Ottawa. First we did a couple day trip through the Thousand Island area and back so we didn't miss it. Then we went through the Rideau. This was an absolutely lovely trip, charming, low stress adventure. There are a lot of locks, but they are small and very pleasant to go through. And at the end you go down the Ottawa stair step locks. From there you follow the Ottawa River down to Montreal where it rejoins the St Lawrence. There is at least one huge lock along the Ottawa River, but it was not a hassle like the St Lawrence locks. With this route you only need to go through one of the big St Lawrence locks (or maybe it was two?) just as you reach Montreal. This route is longer, and the Rideau has a controlling depth of only 5'. We drew 3'10" and so I told everyone we drew 4', and at one spot I got scolded for not calling ahead since I was 4' or greater draft. I never did find that rule anywhere, but you might have too deep a draft for this route. But if you can fit through, I highly recommend it.
 
Greetings,
Welcome aboard. We live on the Rideau Canal system and second the reccomendations of Mr. tt. The Rideau was designated a World Heritage site in 2007.
 
We did the Down East Loop in 2016, the blog is here. We did Twisted's #1 route. I think the bridge clearance may be an issue for you on that one. Plus, the Chambley Canal seemed a bit tight even in our 36'er. Still, well worth doing. Quebec was a great stop. The scenery all along the St. Lawrence and Gaspé Peninsula was amazing. The Saguenay River was worth a stop. We liked PEI and Halifax. Another boat we met along the way did the Bras d'Or Lake side trip, although we weren't able to. But most of all we enjoyed getting away from the big cities and tourist destinations and just enjoying small fishing harbors and remote anchorages.
 
Congratulations on your new boat, and Welcome Aboard.!!

You must be experienced boaters to pick such a fine boat, tell us about yourselves and don't forget that we love pictures.

pete
 
JB,


You may want to consider going up the coast rather than take that boat on the DE Loop. Take a cruise up through Long Island Sound, the Cape Cod Canal and on to Maine. You can spend a whole season just going that far. If you really enjoy the days underway, continue across to New Brunswick and Nova Scotia. There is plenty there for a whole season again. If you want to continue on to PEI or Labrador you will have many summer seasons to enjoy.


The canals are better for smaller boats. You will feel constrained.



Cheers
 
In terms of size for the canals, the Canadian Canals are small and not exactly meant for large boats. But running to Oswego and down the St. Lawrence wouldn't be bad as long as you can fit under 21 foot bridge. The NY Canals aren't nearly as small (and you wouldn't be the biggest boat I've seen in there by a large margin).
 
Welcome, and congratulations.

I think with a 5 foot draft the Rideau is off limits, unfortunately. I know of sailboats drawing 5 feet that have made it through, but not without finding bottom a few times.

If you can meet the air draft requirements the Champlain Canal route probably makes sense. The Chambly Canal running north from Lake Champlain should be able to accomodate you. That's the shorter route, but with more constraints than the Erie Canal/St Lawrence route.

I did the trip east from Lake Ontario around NS and down the US east coast in 2021. Blog starts here: http://boatingadventures.ca/2021/05/27/gananoque/

One of my favorite segments was the trip up the western coast of Cape Breton and into the Bras D'Or Lakes from the north, then through to St Peter's. If you've got time it's a short hop across to the south shore of Newfoundland from there.
 
JB,
You may want to consider going up the coast rather than take that boat on the DE Loop. Take a cruise up through Long Island Sound, the Cape Cod Canal and on to Maine. You can spend a whole season just going that far. If you really enjoy the days underway, continue across to New Brunswick and Nova Scotia. There is plenty there for a whole season again. If you want to continue on to PEI or Labrador you will have many summer seasons to enjoy.

Good advice, particularly if you haven't cruised that area before.

I think there is an argument for staying relatively close to home during the maiden season of a new boat like yours. The St. Lawrence is relatively remote. If you encounter problems local support may be hard to find.

I don't know your experience or aptitudes, but the full DE loop might be overly ambitious for the first season.
 
Speaking of "remote", one thing to consider is that east of Quebec City you will encounter very few people who speak English. Lots speak English in Montreal, a lot fewer in Quebec City, and almost none east of there until you reach PEI and/or New Brunswick. If you know some French it's a big help.
 
Very true about speaking French. But in Québec City we met a local with a lot of experience along that coast. He assured us that, wherever we went, someone would be able to help us out by translating. It was true. We had very few problems with my near total lack of French. I guess three years of it in High School hadn't really sunk in. I could read a little, but speaking or understanding spoken French was beyond me.

A few things to keep in mind. We, as US citizens, weren't expected to speak French in Québec. Other Canadians would have been, and the locals wouldn't have been so helpful with them. The Québecois are an independent lot. You won't find many Canadian flags in Québec. I found it helpful to buy the biggest Québec flag I could find, and fly that from my starboard yardarm in lieu of the Canadian courtesy flag. We found everyone there absolutely great, helpful and kind. I wouldn't hesitate to go back.
 
Wow and Thank you. It took me this long to reply because I went down so many of your links. So happy to get such clear instructions. The mast on the Fleming 65 folds down to 19-20 feet of air clearance. My wife is Canadian and speaks French well enough to get through many conversations and we love Quebec and Quebec City and the Eastern Townships south of Quebec City and PEI etc. etc. so we were partial to the Champlain route but we could be three feet too high it seems. Lowering the pool seems like a scary proposition from a reliability standpoint. More later when I become more knowledgeable.
 
I am getting the biggest Quebec Flag I can find... good tip
 
I think with your air draft your only option will be to run straight from Ontario out the St Lawrence. Your size and water draft probably precludes the Rideau anyway. But it should still be a great trip.


Also, I think the 17' clearance through the Champlain canal is with the pool already lowered. I didn't think it can go even further.
 
I think with your air draft your only option will be to run straight from Ontario out the St Lawrence. Your size and water draft probably precludes the Rideau anyway. But it should still be a great trip.

Yep. But If you've got time it's a pleasant side trip up the Richelieu. Stop at the bottom of the Chambly Canal and bike or hike up to the top. Check bridge clearances, but I think it's doable.

I'm sure there's lots of knowledge here, but it's also been a popular route for Loopers. It's probably worth buying a membership to AGLCA and connecting up with that community. You'll be traveling in company with them up to Lake Ontario.
 
I’ll keep checking but I keep hearing 17 feet clearance. In the Champlain canal. ….
At normal pool level, minimum bridge clearance from Waterford, NY to Whitehall, NY is 17 feet 0 inches at bridge C-28. At maximum pool level minimum bridge clearance is found at Crocker’s Reef Guard Gate with a clearance of 14 feet 2.4 inches.
 
At normal pool, 17 feet is definitely the limiting clearance on the Champlain Canal. If you talk to the Canal Corp they should be able to provide info on whether they could get you some extra clearance or not.



There are another pair of bridges further south on the Canal that you need to watch out for. C-5 and C-5A are listed as 21.46 and 22.10 feet clearance, but that's at normal pool. There's a note on the NY Canal bridge height page that indicates the pool is typically maintained 6 feet higher in that section, giving clearances of 15.46 and 16.10 feet. From what I know, they do lower the water in this section somewhat routinely to accommodate taller boats.
 
I would spend a season in the Chesapeake , come on over to the shore and enjoy life ! you can tie up in Cambridge for free for 48 or 72 hrs , anyway enjoy it !
 
I would spend a season in the Chesapeake , come on over to the shore and enjoy life ! you can tie up in Cambridge for free for 48 or 72 hrs , anyway enjoy it !


Which Cambridge? Maryland? Where free tie-up? In the Cambridge Creek bight just before the bridge? Or...?

-Chris
 
Kehoff, Most definitely I will explore the Chesapeake before heading out to the wild blue yonder. We will be based out of Burr Yacht Sales for a few weeks in Edgewater and training will commence. I see you are a short hop across the bay. Noted and appreciated. I think we will still take on the Down East Loop though. We have decided the safest route for us is the Oswego routing so we can have the option to skirt through Ottawa. It is beautiful up there. Seems like the depth and air drafts are acceptable for our 5 feet and 19 feet. We love everything about the Maritimes and we have spent time in Ottawa, Montreal, Quebec City, PEI, Fogo Island, Halifax but all from the land cruisers.
 
Hi JBMACQ,

We completed the Down East Loop back in October on our 48 Krogen North Sea. We traveled at times with a 55 Fleming. Your selection of the Oswego route is a good one for a large boat. The trip is pretty easy through to Quebec City. After that it gets a little remote but there is always a place for you boat. We found that the Government Docks in various small towns along the way offered the most protected and comfortable accommodations down river. You can anchor in the harbors but we found them to be rolly. We now have flopper stoppers but did not at the time so this trip convinced us to make the investment. You can read about some of our experiences along the way at sylviacrain.com/hoy. This my wife's journal and is not strictly about this journey but has useful photos and map. PM me if you want to discuss any aspect of the trip. My thoughts on the St. Lawrence Seaway may be a little different than others. First off it is interesting. Second almost all that we read about locking through was wrong and we changed our approach accordingly. Not difficult and fun as many things are that are new to you. Enjoy the trip!
 
down East Loop

Hi,
Congratulations on your new boat!
A year shaking the boat down in the Chesapeake is a good idea! That said, even then the DE Loop is a challenge. First, I suggest that you consider a buddy boat to accompany you. Secondly, you can easily do the canals to QC and beyond. I suggest that depth and height are not the biggest problems but rather the tides and currents. Tides in New Brunswick, PEI and Nova Scotia can easily run 25+ feet every few hours which can result in massive currents which even the Fleming may be challenged. With experience, the currents can work in you favor but if it’s new to you it can be overwhelming.. it could be a great trip but I humbly suggest that a trip to ME and even a trip on to NS, NB and PEI would safer than a full downeast loop.
 
Congrats on the new boat!
Welcome aboard on this forum.
There is going to be a presentation on the Downeast Canadian Loop on January 24 at the AGLCA "Looper Palooza" event in Ft Meyers FL. The presenter is Dave Fuller who is a great speaker / presenter. So, we are making the trip to Ft Meyers for his presentation and another on The Bahamas by the Costas who have become the cheerleaders for that "side trip". If you are not networked in AGLCA circles, consider making this event. greatloop.org
 
Congrats on the new boat! Looking forward to seeing MANY pictures of it. :)
 
Congratulations on the new boat! It's my dream to retire on a 55 or 58 and head south. Hopefully diesel is still affordable in 15 to 20 years haha.

I live in Summerside , PEI. It sounds like your already familiar with the area but I would be happy to help with anything you need on this end!

Looking forward to following your trip and seeing some pictures of the boat!
- Jeff
 
Speaking of "remote", one thing to consider is that east of Quebec City you will encounter very few people who speak English. Lots speak English in Montreal, a lot fewer in Quebec City, and almost none east of there until you reach PEI and/or New Brunswick. If you know some French it's a big help.

A couple of decades ago, this was true. Now virtually everyone In Quebec City is bilingual. East of there, they will address you in French sometimes, but there's always someone to help translate. However, most of the signage is French only so some working knowledge is definitely helpful in that respect.

The Champlain Canal air draft is definitely too low for the Fleming. Too bad , because it is a charming trip up to Sorel. East of the Saguenay/Tadoussac, fog will be a potentially bigger issue than Francophones. Lots of expensive new boats have significant unforeseen issues after delivery, perhaps the recommendation to cruise frequently close to home initially, is a really good one.
 
Hi JBMACQ,
. Second almost all that we read about locking through was wrong and we changed our approach accordingly. Not difficult and fun as many things are that are new to you. Enjoy the trip!


What were your expectations, and how was it different?
 
Hi Twistetree,

Our expectations were that the resources at each lock were well maintained and functional. We expected to dock, call in on the provided phone and watch the monitor and lights for instructions. What we found was that the phones at the provided docks didn't work. The monitors provided misleading information or were nonfunctional and one of the docks was difficult to use as there was a strong enough current to make getting off the dock in a single engine boat difficult. All of the reading we had done indicated that you should not call the locks on the radio. We did as we didn't know what else to do.
The effective procedure at each lock was different. One lockmaster acknowledged our radio call with the lights and another answered our call. Next time we will not dock at the one location where the current was difficult. We were fortunate that there was not much traffic for our passage. Perhaps this might be different if there were several boats waiting.

The above may sound like a complaint. It is not as I have come to realize that one takes what is available and makes the best of it. This makes boating interesting and fun for the crew of Rincon Feliz!
 
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