Backing twin engine boat into slip

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Kuncicky

Veteran Member
Joined
May 7, 2021
Messages
88
Vessel Name
Betty L
Vessel Make
1973 Gulfstar
Sometimes, when I think that I really am beginning to catch on to how to handle my old boat, I get a lesson. I have always just taken the easy way out, going in bow first to the slip. But I see that most of the other boats back in. So figured that I could do it too. Nope. I get it right up there, but then the current pushes the bow to the side, and it is clear that the swim platform is going to bang into the piling. So I wind up going in bow first once again. Dang!



So, are there any tips on how to back a twin engine boat into a slip? Seems like it would be a piece of cake, but it is not. Not for me anyway. So I humbly ask for your advice.


Bill
 
We learned the usual tricks, going down the fairway against the wind, use transmissions only, but the key was finding several empty slips at a town dock. We practiced there for hours. Sort of like doing touch and go's with an aircraft. You do it until it's muscle memory, then you keep doing it. (Swim platform has a few dings)
 
Absent a bow thruster (which may fail anyway, when most needed), you can try the techniques of "walking" the boat sideways by opposing the rudders against the twisting movement of your twin propellors.

For example, let's say you must back straight while a wind on your port side is trying to force your bow down to starboard. As you gather sternway with both engines in reverse, turn the wheel to the full port rudder position. At the relatively slow speed you are moving, even full rudder should have little effect on the trajectory of the boat's movement. As you notice the bow predictably starting to pay off to starboard, shift the port engine from reverse to forward and apply a bit of throttle - maybe in a few short surges. That will check your sternway, and will also reduce the swing of your bow, keeping the centerline of the boat more aligned with the slip you're backing into. There will be some tendency for the stern to swing to starboard as well, but relatively little at first - certainly far less than if your rudder were turned to the "full starboard" position.

Carrying this off does require some assertiveness. The boat will respond better as long as you keep it moving, so keep it moving backward into the slip, at least until enough of the boat is alongside the pilings so you can stop and allow it to drift down against the pilings. That will have you aligned straight in the slip. Then, if necessary, you can ease her fore or aft to position her best for the setting up your lines and fenders.

As SoWhat suggests, find a place to practice and get a sense of how your particular boat behaves. Practice rarely makes "perfect," but practice absolutely makes "better."
 
With all due respect to the info posted above, I suggest not using the throttles at all unless the wind is really howling.

I always backed upwind until the stern gets just a bit upwind of the slip opening. Then I rotate the bow around using the shifters and, if the wind is howling, a bit of power added to the upwind engine. Notice I said "a bit" of power. You want to be moving slowly as you approach and enter the slip. When the boat gets aligned with the slip take away that bit of power on the upwind side and let the boat gently ease backwards into the slip.

Now, here's the most important advice. If you don't feel comfortable with the position of the boat as you get close to the mouth of the slip, pull out and take another shot at it. THERE IS NO SHAME IN A MISSED APPROACH AND TRYING IT OVER. That's a lot cheaper than gelcoat repairs.
 
IMO A lot depends on slip configuration and obviously wind & current.
Many are afraid to contact pilings but they can be your friend in many cases.
I like backing into wind and if available, gently contacting piling on down wind side which allows you to use the upwind side prop in reverse to rotate around the piling. You may use the opposite side prop in fwd to assist the rotation and in reverse to assist backing when alignment is close enough to clear the opposite piling.
 
Sold the GB 42 in 2015, but for fifteen years I kept in in my east-west oriented covered slip which is completely open to the often howling sea breezes from the south we regularly get in the afternoons. That put the wind, and sometimes the tidal current on the port beam. Coming into the bayou from the south, I bypassed the slip and turned 180 degrees to come back to the slip from the north with both 120 HP engines just clutched in forward. That gave me all the speed I needed, and I was about one boat length out to the west from the end of the 16-foot wide slip (boat beam 13' 8"). As the bow came even with the slip, I shifter stbd engine to neutral momentarily and then astern while throwing the rudders hard right. Then I firewalled both throttles (separate throttles and shifters)! By now the port quarter was approached even with the centerline of the slip. In a few seconds, I pulled the port throttle to idle ahead and then shifted it to neutral while spinning the wheel to centerline the rudders. As I completed these changes the port engine was idled still going astern. On a perfect day, this maneuver left the boat with some side slipping going on UPwind and the centerline of the slip and boat parallel and the boat moving astern. Now there being no time for rudder maneuvers, I used the two clutches to fine tune the stern right between the outer pilings. If I got the boat halfway in, I continued into the slip. However, if the wind/current won that round and the boat's bow began to slid rapidly to stbd potentially wedging the boat between the outer pair of pilings, I simply pushed both clutches and throttles forward and way we went for another try. This first time I performed this maneuver was in my boat, it took me three tries. I never had to try more than twice after that. I did something similar while conning USS Preble (DDG 46) into a fueling buoy off of a sandy beach at Punta Arenas in southern Chile which required we back in while deploying both anchors in a Bahama moor. I figured what the heck, if I could do it with a big ole ship in 1982, I could handle it in my own boat in 2000. :) Always be ready to escape and mentally go through all the moves your hands will make and after a bit muscle memory will take over. It's a thing of beauty when it works - nobody was watching then....
 
When in freshwater... Be careful backing in, that shallow water slip getting sunlight the props don't get tangled in weeds growing up from the bottom. Weed clogged props become basically useless for thrust in either direction. Also, the weeds can clog cooling water grates on boat bottom.
 
I generally plan how I position the boat based on what I've got for wind / current. Moving the bow sideways is the one thing I can't really do, so I plan to not need to.

I also find it helps greatly to make a smooth transition from stopping to turning to backing, rather than trying to actually stop the boat and make distinct actions.

Also, whenever space allows, back in while turning slightly, don't go straight back. You have more ability to adjust for wind that way.
 
As others have said -practice. Each boat has a different pivot point that it rotates around with gears. My planing cruisers would walk sideways with a little practice. I have found my heavy full keeled boats don’t. (Full keels also are very much affected by side currents more than wind).I find it useful to align parallel to slip -dead stop, identify what wind and currents are doing to boat. Enter slip.
I often see folks driving around the Marina in forward & reverse, just learning to handle their boat in close quarters, hats off to them -absolutely no reason to be self conscious. A lot of pro captains dock their sport fish by facing aft with their hands reaching backwards to gear shifts. I can’t seem to reach back there any more?
 
Flatswing said:
As others have said -practice.
Click to expand...


This reply is not really just to that one message, but I think that quote does kind of tell me the bottom line on it. I did like the reply which said that he practiced with empty slips on either side of the slip he wanted to back into. :) I don't have that luxury. Wish I did.


Anyway, thank for all the advice, guys. You always come through. I do feel like it is something which I will eventually be able to do, with enough practice. Now, let me see what I can find on YouTube.



Bill
 
Wheel straight and leave it there.

I assume you can ride a bicycle? Good, hold your hands in front you like to are holding on to the handle bar of a bike.

pretend you are riding that bike, turn right. Where do your hands go? Left hand goes UP right hand goes DOWN . . .follow me?

That's port motor forward, starboard reverse (if we were driving the boat forward)

When backing into a slip, I place my left hand on the starboard motor, right on port.
As I am facing the rear of the boat, I think of it like a bicycle, which way do I want to turn?

my hands do the rest . .nice and slow.
 
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There's a good book on ship handling. "Naval Ship Handling" is mostly twin screw vessels like destroyers. An old used book is just as helpful as a new one. You can find used on ebay and Amazon.
While it's about ships, almost all of the information and diagrams cross over to handling a twin screw yacht. I've read it cover to cover several times and got more out of that book than any other.


It's such a good book, the USSR reprinted it and claimed it as their own.


For single screw, a tugboat handling book is useful.
 

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Lepke said:
There's a good book on ship handling. "Naval Ship Handling" is mostly twin screw vessels like destroyers. An old used book is just as helpful as a new one. You can find used on ebay and Amazon.
While it's about ships, almost all of the information and diagrams cross over to handling a twin screw yacht. I've read it cover to cover several times and got more out of that book than any other.


It's such a good book, the USSR reprinted it and claimed it as their own.


For single screw, a tugboat handling book is useful.
Click to expand...

Yep, good suggestion. The newest edition differs from the previous ones mainly in discussing post-Cold War vessel designs that have been introduced to the fleet since the 1990s. Twin-screw handling practices haven't changed; likewise using ground tackle, spring lines, etc. and adapting to external forces like wind and current.
 
Most people think it is woke to back their monster trucks into tight parking spots for what? Maybe they are practicing for when the are going to rob a 7-11 and need make a fast getaway? Or maybe they just want to screw around for fifteen minutes trying to park to p--- off other people who would like to park straight in.

I once saw a list called "Signs We'd Like to See." One was a roadside billboard with a beautiful red Corvette on it. The caption said "Small Penis," A new version should substitute a monster truck for the Corvette.
 
ProMaritime said:
Most people think it is woke to back their monster trucks into tight parking spots for what? Maybe they are practicing for when the are going to rob a 7-11 and need make a fast getaway? Or maybe they just want to screw around for fifteen minutes trying to park to p--- off other people who would like to park straight in.

I once saw a list called "Signs We'd Like to See." One was a roadside billboard with a beautiful red Corvette on it. The caption said "Small Penis," A new version should substitute a monster truck for the Corvette.
Click to expand...


That's a pretty dumb attitude on it. For cars / trucks, some have a lot of length behind the driver, so backing out of a spot is totally blind and unsafe. Plus, it's easier to get a car centered in the spot by backing in in my opinion.



For boats, some of the same ideas apply. Back in vs back out depends on how the boat maneuvers as well as the slip you're putting it into.
 
For me, I have a trawler with twin screws and no thrusters. I just think of my boat as a tank and put the engines I idle and then use my transmissions levers to maneuver like a tank. Especially backing in, this works very good. I rarely need to turn my rudders unless there is a wind and I need a little help.
 
docvchulek said:
I idle and then use my transmissions levers to maneuver. Especially backing in, this works very good. I rarely need to turn my rudders unless there is a wind and I need a little help.
Click to expand...


If you have an autopilot and hydraulic steering, add a jog stick. It makes moving the rudders faster and you don't have to turn the wheel. Most people I see having trouble docking use too much rpm. The only times I go above idle is twisting. When you're entering a slip with a side current or wind, you don't wait to move when you're centered, but up wind by seaman's eye. It takes practice. Sometimes you have to be willing to wait for better conditions.
 
Lepke,

Great idea, I have a WH autopilot and it has dodge buttons that I can use to quickly move the rudders and then back to center when I release the button.
 
Kuncicky said:
This reply is not really just to that one message, but I think that quote does kind of tell me the bottom line on it. I did like the reply which said that he practiced with empty slips on either side of the slip he wanted to back into. :) I don't have that luxury. Wish I did.
Anyway, thank for all the advice, guys. You always come through. I do feel like it is something which I will eventually be able to do, with enough practice. Now, let me see what I can find on YouTube.
Bill
Click to expand...
You will find vids on Youtube. There was a good one involving a Riviera, but I think made in USA.
You can practice in more open water on a mooring ball. See what each adjustment brings before making another, avoiding what an instructor/coach called "lever fever". Just don`t pick up the pennant on the mooring ball if it has one.
First up, get the boat moving aft by a dab on both, together.
Not sure how the brain does it but most times I can stand in the stbd walkway, facing aft,hands on gear levers.

Some adjustments need 2 steps. Say you are reversing, and need to move the boat to stbd: fwd on port moves the boat but also skews it, then some reverse on port straightens it.
On my previous boat I would never need to touch the (separate) throttles but, on this boat I can have trouble getting it to turn up to perpendicular with the dock, sometimes needing to add throttle, even helm. Then I need to straighten the steering, though in reverse, the rudders don`t do much without significant way on.
Oh, and remember, despite practice, every time you do it, something is different.
 
Steering a full track Caterpillar earth mover ["dozer"] = Steering a boat!

While Moving Forward:

Turn dozer front toward the right side of dozer - Right track in neutral / Left track in forward

Turn dozer front toward the left side of dozer - Left track in neutral / Right track in forward

While Moving Backward:

Turn dozer rear toward the right side of dozer - Right track in neutral / Left track in reverse

Turn dozer rear toward the left side of dozer - Left track in neutral / Right track in reverse

Same opposition maneuvering of gears [i.e., the two transmissions working in opposite directions] works similarly to turn a dozer and/or a twin screw boat... importantly, to best actuate these maneuvers in a boat the rudders should remain in straight ahead position. Some marine natural differences that can affect movement success is tidal current and wind. Pilot simply needs to become used to dealing with those two natural items. Also, unlike when a dozer's one side track is in neutral - it is being held in virtually steadfast in position, due to track/ground friction... the boat's one side in neutral - is not virtually locked in position, it somewhat slides in the water. That is another naturally occurring item the pilot simply needs to become used to dealing with.

Except for needs that may for one reason or another become apparent, while turning at just over stand still speed in forward or reverse, the boat's engines should remain in basically an idle rpm. No need to rush things while in close quarters pulling into or out of tight spaces. As you get more used to handing the boat this way you may [will] find that an occasional slight bump of power to one engine or the other [that's in one gear position or the other] may be beneficial.

Sooo... I recommend: Take your twin screw boat into open calm water and play with the directional maneuvers items depicted above. You'll be amazed how soon you will feel confident. Then practice in a slip. Be careful and take your time... at idle speeds you can "Whisper" your boat into positions. You will become great at this!

Happy Boat-Handling Daze! - Cheers!! Art :speed boat: :thumb:
 
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Art said:
Thruster and all! :ermm: :thumb: :D
Click to expand...


That's just out and out cheating! :) Of course the wind in the video was mild and straight on the nose as he backed in....
 
docvchulek said:
Lepke,

Great idea, I have a WH autopilot and it has dodge buttons that I can use to quickly move the rudders and then back to center when I release the button.
Click to expand...

That is a great idea - never thought of that before. I would need so many turns on my wheel that I have never used rudders to assist. I will definitely try using the dodge function on my autopilot. Although I have bow and stern thrusters, they can (a) make you lazy and (b) can fail at the most inopportune time.
~A
 
Jog sticks and dodge buttons are helpful. Follow up controls are better yet.

Jog or dodge controls only move the rudder(s) while you operate the control. If your autopilot pump is 10 seconds lock to lock then you must hold the control for 10 seconds to go from hard over to hard over. And most return the rudder to midships when you release the control.

With follow up you set the rudder angle, the autopilot moves the rudder to that angle and maintains the ordered angle. You can let go of the control while the autopilot does it's job and go back to managing the engine controls.

The difference in the controls is night and day in close quarters maneuvering. As you develop intimate knowledge of how your boat handles in different situations you may learn sometimes it needs full rudder, sometimes less. With follow up you dial in what you need and go back to looking out the windows and managing engine controls while the autopilot does what you ask instead of operating the control and watching the rudder angle indicator.

You may get to the comfort level that you ignore the oft cited advice that with twins you center the rudders and use only engine controls. Some boats when opposing the engines and adding rudder to accentuate the turn will pivot in place as if you had bow and stern thrusters turning the boat.

If you're new to using follow up practice with some room around you. It does take some getting used to. And the autopilot is in command much as if it were steering a course. The wheel will not move the rudders.
 
Great advice on the bike analogy!
 
I don't know if I can help other than giving you a little confidence. I found it much easier to back my Nordic Tugs 32 (single diesel) into my narrow slip than go bow first. A couple things that apply to all boats...#1, go slow. You can't do much damage when you're going slow. #2, line up early, upwind and up current. Then you can wait for the current/wind to push you into position for a smooth landing.
 
Art said:
Steering a full track Caterpillar earth mover ["dozer"] = Steering a boat!

While Moving Forward:

Turn dozer front toward the right side of dozer - Right track in neutral / Left track in forward

Turn dozer front toward the left side of dozer - Left track in neutral / Right track in forward
Click to expand...


Hmm, I seem to remember my dad’s John Deere 350 dozer turning differently…. Moving forward , turning right required pulling back on the right track controller (simply a break for the right track)…. too much muscle memory for me to make the dozer analogy work with boats.

Bicycle handle analogy works well moving forward, but not backwards….

It didn’t take us long to learn how to maneuver our boat looking forward. For me, the most straightforward method for backing is to stand, turn around so feet point aft, left hand on stb shifter, right hand on port, as others have suggested. That allows me to not think about how to maneuver, my muscle memory makes it intuitive. Same as facing forward with hands switched! Then I just focus on what I want the boat to do, taking wind and current into account. For me the toughest part is judging how much momentum to carry towards a dock edge in a blow off situation.

Cheers
 
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