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Old 11-26-2022, 03:31 PM   #1
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Anchor chain selection and Windlass gypsy info

On my boat, I have two Fortress FX-85's. It is 65' and classified as 100tons, but I believe it is close to 50 to 60 tons according to a travel lift.

Currently, it has two anchor rodes of about 5' each. yes 5', no 0's missed.

The anchor rode is 3/8. I am looking to see if that is sufficient still for this boat, or is it better to upgrade to 1/2". The previous owner had plans to use 1.25" nylon rope. He wanted to put 1000ft so he can go out to the gulf and anchor.

Looking at going all chain. 300~400 ft per anchor. The boat was originally equipped with anchors that came out of the side of the bow and the anchor locker was converted into a bunk room. So the weight of the chain is of minimal concern.

I am figuring chain overall is a much better use for this size vessel.

Wondering the experts in this forums input about going to all chain, should I stick with 3/8" or go to 1/2"

Also, I have inlcuded some photos of the windlass in hopes of identifying make and model so I can buy new gypsys for it, if necessary. It is currently equipped with a 3/8" gypsy on each side. My foot is on the motor section in one photo for scale, it is a size 11.

Also, if you know the model, would love the exploded parts diagram as I would love to disassemble, clean, prep, lube, and paint it, so it is like new.

Thank you in advance.
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Old 11-26-2022, 04:02 PM   #2
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Perhaps a Lofrens windless?


3/8" seems undersized, even if it's G4 chain. I'd be looking for 1/2". I'm not sure what Gulf you are referring to, but if you think you will ever be anchoring in deep water I'd go for no less than 400', and preferably 600'.


Make sure you can get the required Gypsie. It might be hard for an older, and perhaps uncommon brand windless.
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Old 11-26-2022, 04:25 PM   #3
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Apologies for the confusion. I will not be anchoring in the gulf. It will be islands, Houston, Key West, Miami, Bahamas, Turks, DR, ABCs, Roatan, Panama, the West side of Mexico to the West Coast of the US. Then just hanging out on the West coast.

Everything on the boat appears to be Vetus, so I would assume the windlass is a brand name as well. I just do not know where to look for it.
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Old 11-26-2022, 04:43 PM   #4
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Just for info. "Classified as 100 Tons". Is that on the USCG Document? That Tonnage is a measure of watertight volume or cargo capacity, it has nothing to do with weight or displacement. And it can be very misleading, I've seen identical boats with grossly different tonnages. Different people do the measurements, they get very different answers. 50-60 tons actual weight or displacement makes sense, and has nothing to do with measured Tonnage.
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Old 11-26-2022, 07:02 PM   #5
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Can it take a bigger than 1/2 chainwheel?

We run 13mm chain, slightly larger than 1/2 inch on our vessel and have deformed it on two occassions.

If I could get a chainwheel to suit 16mm to suit our windlass I would be using that but alas, it's not to be.

Next lot of chain we get will be P rated
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Old 11-26-2022, 07:14 PM   #6
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Lofrans was often the mfgr. for Vetus.
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Old 11-26-2022, 07:44 PM   #7
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Looks very similar in construction to the vetus condor on my boat, but itís bigger and has the vertical capstan instead of the cast-in cleat. Motor cover is same shape too.
Iíd bet vetus. Donít know the model.
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Old 11-26-2022, 10:04 PM   #8
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The closest one I have been able to find is the lofrans titan windlass
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Old 11-26-2022, 10:16 PM   #9
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If it is the Titan, it looks like it will take a gypsy for 12mm or 14mm
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Old 11-27-2022, 07:07 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sndog View Post
On my boat, I have two Fortress FX-85's.

Currently, it has two anchor rodes of about 5' each. yes 5', no 0's missed.

The anchor rode is 3/8. I am looking to see if that is sufficient still for this boat, or is it better to upgrade to 1/2". The previous owner had plans to use 1.25" nylon rope. He wanted to put 1000ft so he can go out to the gulf and anchor.

Looking at going all chain. 300~400 ft per anchor.

Two anchors of the same style seems odd; think I'd have a Fortress and something else. (Typical anchor thread response.)

3/8" might be OK.

Might be a compromise chain size between 3/8" and 1/2" -- 7/16" -- available. Still would depend on whether you can match with gypsies. (And your 3/8" chain still might be OK.)

Chain is typically sold in barrels and half barrels, etc., with X feet of Y size in each barrel or half barrel. (See Defender's offerings, for example.) Once you home in on chain size, you could buy a barrel or a half barrel, then splice on a boatload of 8-plait for even deeper water. Or for emergency back-up rode in case you have to jettison one chain...

-Chris
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Old 11-27-2022, 08:55 AM   #11
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Chain is typically sold in barrels and half barrels, etc., with X feet of Y size in each barrel or half barrel. (See Defender's offerings, for example.) Once you home in on chain size, you could buy a barrel or a half barrel, then splice on a boatload of 8-plait for even deeper water. Or for emergency back-up rode in case you have to jettison one chain...

-Chris

What Chris said!

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Old 11-27-2022, 09:06 AM   #12
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Quote:
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The closest one I have been able to find is the lofrans titan windlass
I think youíre right. Itís a beast isnít it?
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Old 11-27-2022, 10:33 AM   #13
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While I would agree that 1/2" might be a better choice, it's really good to to have a more definitive definition of your boat. If it's not a common make and model, posting a picture with length, beam, and draft would be helpful. Some boats have much more surface area to be effected by wind. Other boats that are longer in length (for the same displacement) may be more stream lined with a lower profile, providing less wind resistance and maybe less wave resistance.

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Old 11-27-2022, 01:52 PM   #14
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I second Chris' thought above about having two different types of anchors. The Fortress is great, 90% of the time, but I have had problems getting them to set on hard bottoms. Also the twin flukes can foul the chain in a reversing current anchorage (Jewell Island in Maine) and you end up with a blob of chain on the end and not an anchor.

I would look for a heavy, new design single fluke anchor, like a 100 lb Rocna, Manson Supreme, Spade, etc.

Also I like my rode's weight handling capability to match the anchor's holding power. A 100 lb Rocna should hold up to 10,000 lbs if well set. That means 1/2" G4 for a 9,200 wll.

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Old 11-27-2022, 07:30 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O C Diver View Post
While I would agree that 1/2" might be a better choice, it's really good to to have a more definitive definition of your boat. If it's not a common make and model, posting a picture with length, beam, and draft would be helpful. Some boats have much more surface area to be effected by wind. Other boats that are longer in length (for the same displacement) may be more stream lined with a lower profile, providing less wind resistance and maybe less wave resistance.

Ted

It is 65', but will be 69'9" after the swim platform is added. 19' beam, 6' draft.

I have enclosed two photos of it as it is not a common make and model.
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Old 11-27-2022, 08:10 PM   #16
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I second Chris' thought above about having two different types of anchors. The Fortress is great, 90% of the time, but I have had problems getting them to set on hard bottoms. Also the twin flukes can foul the chain in a reversing current anchorage (Jewell Island in Maine) and you end up with a blob of chain on the end and not an anchor.

I would look for a heavy, new design single fluke anchor, like a 100 lb Rocna, Manson Supreme, Spade, etc.

Also I like my rode's weight handling capability to match the anchor's holding power. A 100 lb Rocna should hold up to 10,000 lbs if well set. That means 1/2" G4 for a 9,200 wll.

David

Would a mantus work as well?

Thinking maybe leave the two Fortress for equal appearance, but then put one of the recommended ones on a 30' chain, coupled with 1.25" nylon rope.
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Old 11-27-2022, 08:56 PM   #17
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Quote:
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It is 65', but will be 69'9" after the swim platform is added. 19' beam, 6' draft.

I have enclosed two photos of it as it is not a common make and model.
Couldn't imagine less than 1/2" if you're anchoring in the ocean, sea, or gulf. 3/8" would be a protected waters rode. I would recommend talking with members on this forum (Twistedtree comes to mind) who have vessels of this size.

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Old 11-27-2022, 10:13 PM   #18
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Chain is typically sold in barrels and half barrels, etc., with X feet of Y size in each barrel or half barrel. (See Defender's offerings, for example.) Once you home in on chain size, you could buy a barrel or a half barrel...

Rob
Be aware, the barrel will be heavy, so plan ahead. The delivery guy has to bring and unload it, I suggest direct to the marina. Then you have to get it along the marina to the boat, and load it onto the boat. The windlass on the boat can do the latter.
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Old 11-27-2022, 10:38 PM   #19
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Be aware, the barrel will be heavy, so plan ahead. The delivery guy has to bring and unload it, I suggest direct to the marina. Then you have to get it along the marina to the boat, and load it onto the boat. The windlass on the boat can do the latter.
The chain will be delivered to a shipyard with a forklift capacity. It will also be put into the boat when it is back on the hard, and definitely use the windlass for that. I like my arms, and shoulders, more than the abuse loading that much chain would do to them
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Old 11-27-2022, 11:02 PM   #20
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Would a mantus work as well?



Thinking maybe leave the two Fortress for equal appearance, but then put one of the recommended ones on a 30' chain, coupled with 1.25" nylon rope.
S/V Panope has been doing anchor tests for a while. Here's his review of the Mantus M2 20 kg. Based on Panope tests last year showing flaws, Mantus apparently made modifications of the design to improve holding. Below is a screenshot of the current stack rankings of anchors Panope has tested. Mantus shows fairly well. Big benefit is it can be disassembled, though not sure that's important for your use case


https://youtu.be/hHieSDi8oqY

Note that Mantus is running a 20% discount sale through tomorrow, Nov 28th.

https://www.mantusmarine.com/?_vsref...5f4f30fba46b98

If I read your post correctly, you are considering running two Fortress anchors on your bow for symmetric aesthetic reasons. To be blunt, running two identical anchors will send the exact opposite message of what you want. Folks run dual anchors to accommodate differing bottoms; and/or to run a working anchor and a storm anchor. Running two identical anchors makes little sense.

I see you're in Newport Beach CA. Fortress is not a common primary anchor in those waters. Fortress is a good backup anchor.

30-feet of chain on a 65-foot boat is woefully undersized except for a lunch hook. Fine if you just plan to putt around Newport harbor.

If you plan to head to the Channel Islands to some of the great anchorages out there, you really need robust ground tackle for a working anchor. Given the height of your bow, I'd run at least 250-feet of 1/2" chain and the largest Vulcan (or similar) you can fit in your bow roller. This would be your working anchor, not your storm anchor.

If your plan is to head through Panama Canal and explore both sides you really need a more robust anchor setup than you're contemplating - a storm anchor. Not necessarily longer rode, but heavier tackle. I'm not sure 1/2" is adequate - maybe for your working anchor, but you will want a storm setup that is seriously oversized. If I understand your itinerary correctly, there could easily come a time when your anchor is the only thing between you and the beach. This is your only realistic chance to upgrade it.

You will indeed need a forklift to move the chain around.

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