Heavy Weather - GB42

[Mako]

Perhaps @JYoung was looking at this from the POV of cruising a few hours during the afternoons, but no long or overnight stints. I would agree with him then because an AP can become a liability in narrow waterways or tight to shorelines. And personally I love hand steering.

But when out at sea overnight or for a week at a time, an AP is wonderful to have. We've hand steered for days on end and my limit was about 2 hours before I grew fatigued. Not fun.

 

[psneeld]

It still nice to have if you don't have crew or an inexperience crew. You can set auto/Nav with low engine power and have them look ahead while you do important other things than hand steer or trust them to.

Other like me have posted before, they use autopilot much of the time, even in narrow or tight situations.

 

[Davil1]

Autopilot size

not sure applies to power boats.

Still hanging on to my sailboat.

SIZE/POWER

Just replaced my Raymarine wheel AP

Wish had done it with next size up, mostly on following seas works constantly and can feel the actuator (cable) getting warmer to the point either change tacks or disconnect and steer manual to let it cool down.

A bigger electric motor/actuator I think will be less stressed.

 

[Pascall]

We sail 95% on autopilot, including the turns.
Only when manoeuvring do we switch to manual control.
We also don't have a steering wheel in the wheelhouse but a joystick, the autopilot and the manual control is the same device, which makes the transition from autopilot to manual control easy.

Mvg,

Pascal.

 

[PierreR]

On my trip back from Louisiana to Ohio I used the autopilot for open water, bays and crossing or paralleling wide bays. In the ICW or canals I never used the autopilot. About 1,100 miles on autopilot and 2,300 miles hand steering.

 

[gilbertpark]

The best tip I can give you is to deliberately go out in heavy weather with an experienced Captain. I did this, with a Lifeboat Coxswain from the Isle of Wight, for exactly the reasons you state, and it has proved invaluable. If you check my website (Coast2CoastMedia.co.uk) on Wednesday evening it will be on it then (you have promoted me to update it).

 

[Fish53]

Lots of excellent answers here. As a former sailor you've undoubtedly encountered your share of rough conditions offshore. I have only a little experience offshore in sailboats but I fished offshore in New England and Alaska on fishing trawlers for over forty years and formerly owned an Albin 36. Unlike many sailboats your Grand Banks lacks many of the features that sailboats have that provide some level of survivability when the weather gets nasty. That said, beyond the basics of good seamanship in the preparation of your vessel the best would be prudence. Really bad weather would be very unpleasant in the type of boat you have now.

 

[Mac G]

Yes. Indeed. I concur.
Wanted strategies to store in the back of my mind if end up in a situation.
This has been very helpful and I appreciate all the input.
Have also learned that my current autopilot is a slow slug that eventually needs to be upgraded!
Thank you all.

 

[Fish53]

In my opinion the weakest part of boats like yours is all those damn windows. Having taken out the supposedly bullet proof pilothouse windows on a much larger vessel I can attest that it's no fun. The list goes on but I'm confident you get it after all the great advice provided by others. Best of luck and stay safe.

 

[rslifkin]

In my opinion the weakest part of boats like yours is all those damn windows. Having taken out the supposedly bullet proof pilothouse windows on a much larger vessel I can attest that it's no fun. The list goes on but I'm confident you get it after all the great advice provided by others. Best of luck and stay safe.

Windows and engine room vents are definitely the weak point on many recreational boats. Concern for windows varies, as different hull shapes will require different levels of bad conditions before you risk getting a problematic amount of water against the windows. And any windows you don't need to see through to operate the boat can have beefy storm boards installed to protect them if needed, assuming the structure around the windows is strong enough.

Of course, any of those weak points only needs to be strong enough to survive the worst conditions you're likely to experience in an unforecast and unavoidable situation. Compared to commercial fishing, we all have a lot more flexibility to just stay put and say "no thanks, I'll wait until the weather improves".

 

[Hippocampus]

https://www.morganscloud.com/2023/0...c68a93f7ab7d0b9839a3a8&swpmtxnonce=0112e527cf

First of 2 articles but good explanation of smart v stupid. Also have the simrad mentioned above. Compared to current smart offerings it’s fairly stupid but a major step above prior generations. Simrad did not upgrade their mid priced units with current high end tech.

Have limited experience with true high tech APs. But there’s no question in my mind that even in heavy weather they perform better than any human .

Our AP drives 95%+ of the time and that includes while in the ICW or other narrow channels. It has three modes. So with the correct mode (name varies with brand) does a much better job keeping you right where you want to be.

 

[PierreR]

The best tip I can give you is to deliberately go out in heavy weather with an experienced Captain. I did this, with a Lifeboat Coxswain from the Isle of Wight, for exactly the reasons you state, and it has proved invaluable. If you check my website (Coast2CoastMedia.co.uk) on Wednesday evening it will be on it then (you have promoted me to update it).

Once in a while I read a post that changes my perspective. Your post is one of them.
Some times I have difficulty understanding the perspective of questions and answers. Especially on things like heavy weather. My definition of heavy weather is likely different from many of the posters here. I grew up on Lake Michigan playing in the surf with canoes and touchy dinghy sailors. I sailed across Lake Michigan on a Sunfish when I was 15. My definition of heavy weather is when the 110' light house disappears from view when struck by a wave.
The real eye opener for me was the first time I witnessed un-survivable conditions and their effects. I was renting a small cottage on Lake Superior the day the Edmund Fitzgerald foundered. Mandatory evacuation, would not let us go back, I skied in to find 10' of ice on the road and no sign of the cottage. Nothing standing for 100 or so yards inland. That day influenced my choice of boats from then on. I am over-boated today compared to what would be more useable for my current boating aspirations.
A Grand Banks is basically a lobster boat with better accommodations meant for coastal cruising and sitting in port in a fresh breeze. Those who cruise the loop stand little chance of really getting caught is something the Grand Banks can't handle.
I am regularly seeing posters here doing extensive coastal cruising in boats I would have considered inadequate. They are doing a fine job while getting to enjoy amenities of boats that are not compromised by higher standards of seaworthiness. Until recently, I would not have considered anything except a heavy full displacement boat. I now se that as a bit overkill for the loop and Bahamas.

 

[JackConnick]

There's a lot of great info in this thread. Coming from a 28' sailboat to a GB 36, I am doing a lot of "learn by doing". It really helps to have these tips.


Jack

 

[Hippocampus]

Gilbert and Pierre make an excellent point.

In the past it was common to learn by going through two footitis. Gradually increasing the size of your boat, your horizons and your experience including progressively more severe weather. It was also considered prudent and worthwhile to crew for others even if you had your own boat. This allowed hands on learning and ability to safely experience increasing weather in good company.

Unfortunately those days seem past. I’m reminded of one years spring Salty Dawg rally where boats needed rescue. Others turned back. Injuries occurred and boats broken. We had left two days earlier than the scheduled departure of the fleet to the dismay of the couple that started Salty Dawg. We left as one system was tailing off and days before the next system arrived. Our thinking was to put up the wind and waves of the system resolving to avoid the brunt of the next one. We experienced moderate weather (double or rarely triple reefed main and Solent) but no wind against wave in the Gulf Stream and made it to Antigua rested and without mishap.

Later in the season spoke with the organizers. Story seemed to be for most who got into trouble it was the first time they experienced real weather. Prior experience in a controlled environment with other skilled sailors who been there done that prevents crippling fear and teaches you a calm correct way to handle the circumstances. So Pierre/gilbert are spot on. Experience progressively more serious weather. Slowly stress yourself and your vessel to handle progressively more intense weather. Only do this in a safe way as conditions and appropriate personnel allows. But no hubris. Accept the limitations of your boat and yourself.

 

[PierreR]

Gilbert and Pierre make an excellent point.

So Pierre/gilbert are spot on. Experience progressively more serious weather. Slowly stress yourself and your vessel to handle progressively more intense weather. Only do this in a safe way as conditions and appropriate personnel allows. But no hubris. Accept the limitations of your boat and yourself.

Oh Hip, you make it sound so easy. I would rather not have learned everything from the perspective of being told it was foolish and doing it anyway. Good judgement comes from experience and experience comes from bad judgement.

The trip across Lake Michigan in a Sunfish was an interesting trip and an example of what not to do. I and a friend said we were going hiking and camping. Unsupervised activities with teenage children was not uncommon in the late 60's, in the wilds of Northern Michigan. At the time I could have swam the English Channel and knew it so I was not all that frightened. i was use to long swims is open lake conditions. The weather was perfect and we were loaded up with five big bottles of Coke and had turned a whole loaf of bread into PBJ's. We took the rest of the peanut butter and jelly and a big bag of popcorn. A sun hat, a bailing can/head a hand held compass and a stationary compass and a couple of watches and the Rand McNally. We had two Sunfish sailboats and split the camping gear, in trash bags, between them.
We launched early morning at Cat Head beach near the tip of the Leelanau peninsula and headed north with a light breeze from the SW. We knew we would likely see islands the whole way and aimed for the east side of the Fox islands. The boats surfed great much of the way We stopped for a break on the southern tip of North Fox island and the west side of High island and landed near Scotts Point, just east of Port Inland rock quarry, for the night. We slept on the beach, life jacket for a pillow. It was cold and we left early the next morning to repeat the stunt. It took about 10 hours each way. I just checked and its about 47nm each way on a reach. There was a short time of not seeing land between our launch point and North Fox island. I had been through that area before in fishing boats so I was not unfamiliar with the route. In the afternoons we hit more wind but we only capsized a couple times each. Our biggest goal was avoiding civilization with adults and detection. There were people on those islands who would know who I was. The whole thing was far more tiring that I was expecting. We actually got away with it. Years later my parents found out but the horse had left the barn by then.
I could write an entire book about the adventures, boat building and contraptions invented as a kid.

 

[Hippocampus]

Personally learned by crewing for others and buying progressively larger boats to do progressively more demanding trips. Still learn from my crew when I take on additional people.
With one of my prior boats I went halvies with another sailor. We would intentionally go out into weather. But not being brave or foolish worked our way up the Beaufort scale over time. Still didn’t go out into gale or storm. Rather short duration events. My experience of more severe weather wasn’t planned as it is to be avoided but was on stout boats with excellent crew. Still having been in shorter duration events was instructive and allowed us to function without anxiety getting in the way. Have had very experienced coastal cruisers decompensate in a gale and be useless. Others you can buddy with until they build confidence and then they do quite well. Fatigue and terror are the enemy. So would use 3 experienced crew with only one newbie . That takes terror out of the equation. 4 decreases fatigue. I’m still scared in serious weather but knowing I’ve done ok in the past allows me to function. I think the gradual progression was helpful in that evolution.
I’m much like the OP. I’ve yet to have much Weather experience with my current boat. Yes some tstorms and squalls but nothing more serious. Think he’s wise to start this thread. It’s nothing like being on a fully found blue water sailboat where your crew have all crossed oceans. It’s mom and pop on a coastal cruiser. So far I’ve found the boat can handle significant gusts/seas by just heading in to them. It’s a delight not worrying about being caught in irons. But there’s no question in my mind it doesn’t have the capabilities of my prior boats. It wouldn’t likely survive a knockdown. It would downflood with a serious pooping. Even lateral boarding seas would be problematic. Like many here definitions of serious weather depends upon what you’ve seen in the past. I trust my current boat. Think it well constructed and one of the best designs in its class. But I just wanted him to understand its limitations and plan accordingly. Believe if you accept those limitations it’s highly unlikely he will be caught in anything like he experienced in the past.

 

[Fish53]

Well I finally went back and read all of the posts on this thread, something I admit I don't always do. The thing that stands out the most to me is just how elusive the definition of rough weather is. Of course many apply the definition more to a specific vessel rather an actual sea state, and that's appropriate as far as it goes. That problem there however is we're talking boats not weather. There's a whole raft of variables in both cases that confuse the issue in both ways. One I hear and see frequently is an individuals perception of a sea state they've encountered. A common assessment is it was a 20 foot sea. I don't know what's so magical about 20 feet but it appears often. It's important to realize that wave height is not as significant as what caused it and where it occurs. I have been in a 20 foot sea numerous times hundreds of miles offshore in the Pacific and hardly a cause for concern. Conversely I've been in a 20 foot sea trying to round Nantucket for the sound in winter and certainly wished I were elsewhere. All I'm saying is sea state and vessel type is widely subjective to the point of being very difficult to articulate precisely in a limited space.

 

[Mac G]

Yes, Fish53. I agree. My idea of "heavy weather" now, in this GB, is much less than what I would have considered when sailing. It is boat specific and boat subjective. And large seas offshore are way different than near shore.
I recognize now I have already been out on days we should have just stayed in port because the boat did not handle like I am used to.

A flush-deck deep keel displacement monohull sailboat under reefed canvas behaves quite differently than this semi-displacement wide, flat aft, shallow beast with a 1.5 story apartment on top and no lead keel and no sails to stabilize her! I get that and I am more careful now.
Whereas before 25kts with some chop or seas would just be a good day of sailing, now we must think twice, especially if forecasted to build.

Have already been out in sitations where my wife did not feel comfortable leaving the flybridge because it was so rough, whereas I was walking all around, going down below to make lunch for us and bringing it up top for her, etc. Have always had good sea legs and never minded getting trashed because that is my background; but I was wrong to not recognize we should not have left port that day - it is no longer business as usual.
My wife is my barometer now too. And she is right. Why go out today?

I have the same background as Hippo - started at a young age crewing for experienced older folks who knew what to do, who never yelled and who never got freaked out about anything. I followed their lead and over the decades, and with my own boat, grew to feel comfortable generally in whatever. But all my experience has been on 40, 50 and 60-foot ocean suitable sailing vessels, not semi-displacement twin-screw powerboats.

The strategies mentioned about separate trottling to square to following seas and "tacking" to handle seas all make sense to me and I can visualize all that and appreciate all the advice and input which I will store away but hopefully rarely have to use if I am smart and stay in port on crappy days.
I also recognize the risks of the GB having big vulnerable windows! Would personally never go offshore in any sailboat not fitted with deadlights or some means to secure those. So we will not be going "offshore" in our GB.
But at some point we may find ourselves in a situation where I will be glad I asked you guys all these stupid questions!

Have also realized from your input that autopilots have come a long way and I need to open my mind and learn more about those over time.
This input is why this Forum is a valuable resource. I can recognize from who posts what that there are some very experienced and very knowledgeable folks here and I always enjoy learning folks who have been there and done that.

Thank you all.

 

[rslifkin]

Have already been out in sitations where my wife did not feel comfortable leaving the flybridge because it was so rough, whereas I was walking all around, going down below to make lunch for us and bringing it up top for her, etc. Have always had good sea legs and never minded getting trashed because that is my background; but I was wrong to not recognize we should not have left port that day - it is no longer business as usual.
My wife is my barometer now too. And she is right. Why go out today?

Don't forget, duration is a factor in those "uncomfortable but manageable" situations. There are days where we've gone out with a nearby destination and were only going to be in snotty weather for a half hour. But if we'd been planning a destination 6 hours away, we wouldn't have gone that day, as the longer duration of the same weather would have left us far more tired and uncomfortable, while sitting through it for 30 minutes wasn't a big deal (and was still in the "whee, this is fun" stage at the helm rather than "can I have a break now?"), noting that our situation was with no autopilot, so hand steering wasn't optional.

 

[Mac G]

But all my experience has been on 40, 50 and 60-foot ocean suitable sailing vessels, not semi-displacement twin-screw powerboats.

Sorry, want to qualify and correct my own writing.
The 40-60 foot size vessels comprise my "offshore" experience.
Have also owned and sailed a lot in smaller vessels (and dinghies) as well, but as coastal cruisers, inshore, not offshore.
However, the other constant among all of those compared to our GB is rudder size.
When I first inspected our GB hauled out on the hard the rudders struck me as underzied toys compared to what I am accustomed to.
I get it - apples vs oranges - power versus sail.
And now that I have fully embraced twin screw powerboating I make a point of walking boatyards in the winter to inspect the running gear of others.
I am amazed how many twin-screw vessels there are whereas I never really noticed those guys before when I was on the other side.
I make note of rudder size, prop angle, whether or not fitted with line cutters, etc.
I also note the underwater shapes of the hulls and try to imagine how they would react in a sea. Have become a fully immersed student of this new boating life I have morphed into.
So the comments in the post about goosing the throttle in certain instances to get the water flow past the rudders moving again makes perfect sense to me now.
Thank you

 

[crowleykirk]

Let me rephrase the question:
How can I expect a twin screw semi-displacement GB to react in heavy weather?
What are her tendencies specifically in various points of sail in seas?

A GB 42 can handle about anything. I single is usually a little better than twins for tracking. I used to work on tons of GB's when we where the Ford Lehamn, CAT and Cummins dealer log ago.

The 42 is an amazing vessel. My wife and I have looked at a really nice used one with stabilizers and bow thrusters. Massive difference between that one and a stock GB42. But we have opted to order a new Helmet 38 soon. I prefer that massive center keep and single engine of the Helmsmen.

So GB owners use the mask with a sail for some stabilization and say if really helps. I have no experience with that.

The obvious things to think about as others have mentioned is the weather, but I feel like this is a given in all situations and not what you asked.

I would look into adding stabilization if you are in a position. This is what we are putting on a Helmsmen when we order.
https://view.publitas.com/dms-sales-uk/dms_magnus_master_new24_waterlineboasts/page/10-11

It will also come with stern and bow thrusters.

The GB is a strong vessel and will take much more than any of us can. She is a slow boat and should give you plenty of confidence. I guess it's up to you and the crew to see what your comfort zone will be.

Happy Crusing