Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 01-01-2021, 07:40 PM   #1
Veteran Member
 
PocketAces's Avatar
 
City: North Vancouver
Vessel Name: Pocket Aces
Vessel Model: Mainship 34T '08
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 40
12V breaker panel LED indicator light replacement

Hi, I have a 34T '08 and most of the LED lights on the 12V breaker anel (and some on the 120V breaker panel as well) have died. On the old Yahoo groups there were several posts on this topic, but alas, Yahoo groups is no more...

A few questions:
* Where to get the replacement LEDs and what type?
* How to get the old ones out. They are locked in place with a small metal plate which was pushed on to prevent them popping out. Due to tricky access with all the other wires, it is tricky to remove these. Can I just pull the LED out the front? (Seems to me they will break)
* Wiring. To remove the existing ring connectors is also a challenge to me. Not sure I can even get a screw driver in without dismantling a whole lot. Is it reasonable to cut the existing wires and re-connect with a bunch more butt connectors? I think a boat electrician might roll his eyes at the addition of 20 or so extra connectors?
Are there any other tricks such as removing each breaker switch first or calling a qualified electrician?
Thanks
PocketAces is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2021, 07:49 PM   #2
Moderator Emeritus
 
Comodave's Avatar
 
City: Au Gres, MI
Vessel Name: Black Dog
Vessel Model: Formula 41PC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 17,490
Don’t know if they will fit your panel but Blue Seas have panel LEDs. Look on their website and click on Products then Panels and then Panel Accessories.
__________________
Boat Nut:
If you are one there is no explanation necessary.
If you aren’t one, there is no explanation possible.
Comodave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2021, 09:34 PM   #3
Veteran Member
 
City: Longboat Key
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 72
LED voltage

Be sure not to use 12V LEDs, your charging system is over 14V. 12V LEDs will burn out again.
bill.kimbell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2021, 11:08 AM   #4
Guru
 
danderer's Avatar
 
City: Newark, DE
Vessel Name: Infinity
Vessel Model: Kadey Krogen 48
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 647
Are you sure they are LEDs? On my 06 34T they were incandescents. I wound up changing the 12v side of the panel to LEDs.

I ask because the incandescents are notorious for burning out; LEDs not so. I made the change 5-6 years ago and so don't remember the source - might have been Mouser.

Mine came out from the front. I didn't have any locking plates behind the panel.

Rather than chasing the ring terminals I just pulled the old light out the front, cut the wires, crimped the new legs to the exposed wires, and pushed the new fixture into place.

I felt no need for an electrician in this process.

During this I changed some of the 12v (should be 14v as previously noted) from green to red. My system was: Green are fine to be left on all the time (cabin lights, refrigerator, head, etc) and Red should be on only when needed (ER lights, macerator, etc). Seeing a red light on was a good reminder I had forgotten to turn something off.
Attached Thumbnails
P1030378.jpeg  
danderer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2021, 11:40 AM   #5
Guru
 
tiltrider1's Avatar
 
City: Seattle
Vessel Name: AZZURRA
Vessel Model: Ocean Alexander 54
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 3,424
First, search the internet for LED panel lights. There are many styles and sizes out there.

Second, for older incandescent panels lights, if you can not find a panel light large enough to fill the hole. Just plug the hole with a wooden dowel. Use a sharpie to color it black, drill the correct size hole and insert the new panel light.

Third, make sure you need these lights. I spent a whole lot of time replacing panel lights in my last boat only to find that the light kept we awake at night.
tiltrider1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2021, 12:23 PM   #6
Guru
 
KnotYet's Avatar
 
City: Los Angeles
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 990
PocketAces, if the dead LED's are always on (24/7/365) then they have exceeded
100,000 hours and could be expected to need replacement due to age alone.
If they are only occasionally lit then I would search for the reason they burned out.
If they are actually incandescent then you have your answer and should be easily accessible.
LED's will typically last 50,000 hours if properly installed.
Make sure the ground to the LED's has not failed in some way, too.
KnotYet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2021, 02:09 PM   #7
Guru
 
porman's Avatar
 
City: Duvall, Wa. USA
Vessel Name: Beach Music II
Vessel Model: 2003 Mainship 430 Trawler
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 917
The panel lights in our 2003 Mainship are not LED's. They are Sierra 12 volt indicator lights. They push in from the front. I have replaced most of them. I have not had to replace any of the 120 volt lights yet.
porman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2021, 08:30 PM   #8
Veteran Member
 
PocketAces's Avatar
 
City: North Vancouver
Vessel Name: Pocket Aces
Vessel Model: Mainship 34T '08
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 40
Thanks folks for the very useful feedback!
danderer: I really like the idea of red vs green for normal vs occasional use. And if you are okay with cutting and crimping the wires, then I believe that should be good enough. (A bit more messy, but not less functional or safe). Regarding LED or Incandescent, I have just assumed they were LEDs, but the could very well be incandescent. I have been pretty good about switching off all breakers on the DC side except Bridge main and Refrigerator (for both fridges) so most of them should be well within the LED limit (but not incandescent)

tiltrider1: The AC and DC panels are behind doors, so no problem about keeping me awake!

So that leaves the question of how to get them out due to the backing plates. I will use the one on the Engine 2 (not used) as a guinea pig and pull hard enough from the front until the light either breaks or comes out. (I suspect it will break as the backing plates seem quite effective and very inaccessible)

A project for a cold rainy winter here in Vancouver BC
PocketAces is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2021, 06:20 AM   #9
Guru
 
danderer's Avatar
 
City: Newark, DE
Vessel Name: Infinity
Vessel Model: Kadey Krogen 48
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 647
I actually found the info for the LEDs I used. They were purchased through a company named Spemco, though they were manufactured by Solico.

I only did the 12v side; I never had any of the original 120v lights fail.
Attached Thumbnails
Screen Shot 2021-01-04 at 6.16.39 AM.jpg  
danderer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2021, 10:41 PM   #10
Veteran Member
 
PocketAces's Avatar
 
City: North Vancouver
Vessel Name: Pocket Aces
Vessel Model: Mainship 34T '08
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 40
danderer: Thanks for the info about Solico. I will get some and see how they fit/look.
PocketAces is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2021, 10:24 AM   #11
Veteran Member
 
City: Palm Harbor, Florida
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 40
I found LED replacement lights with a company called Pacer Group. Purchased thru their website.
1555 Apex Rd, Sarasota, FL 34240
Here is the model number for green; “E3L-14-G
LIGHT, INCANDESCENT 14V GREEN 5/16" MOUNT w/CLIP”
My existing incandescent lights had a locking clip. Once I removed the clip, I pulled out the existing light and cut the two wires.
Unfortunately my wire butt connectors would not fit back through the hole from the front. I had to connect the wire connections from the rear of the panel.
Even though the new LED’s came with the locking clips I did not install them. It was too difficult to slip them back on.
panhead56 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2021, 01:16 PM   #12
TF Site Team
 
Bacchus's Avatar
 
City: Seneca Lake NY
Vessel Name: Bacchus
Vessel Model: MS 34 HT Trawler
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 6,851
Quote:
Originally Posted by panhead56 View Post
I found LED replacement lights with a company called Pacer Group. Purchased thru their website.
1555 Apex Rd, Sarasota, FL 34240
Here is the model number for green; “E3L-14-G
LIGHT, INCANDESCENT 14V GREEN 5/16" MOUNT w/CLIP”
My existing incandescent lights had a locking clip. Once I removed the clip, I pulled out the existing light and cut the two wires.
Unfortunately my wire butt connectors would not fit back through the hole from the front. I had to connect the wire connections from the rear of the panel.
Even though the new LED’s came with the locking clips I did not install them. It was too difficult to slip them back on.
Pacer was the supplier to Mainship for most / all of their electrical gear.
How about replacing from front by sliding a piece of appropriate size shrink tube over wires, twisting wire, solder and shrink the tubing?
Should fit back thru hole?
I do believe ABYC excludes small AWG wires from the no solder only connections. Maybe twist qualifies as "mechanical"?
__________________
Don
2008 MS 34 HT Trawler
"Bacchus"
Bacchus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2021, 01:35 PM   #13
Veteran Member
 
City: Palm Harbor, Florida
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 40
I was hoping that your idea on soldering the wires would suffice. It’s a pain to connect the wires behind the panel.
Unfortunately I found information regarding soldering; Per ABYC (E-11.16.3.7), “Solder shall not be the sole means of mechanical connection in any circuit¯”. Further, crimping provides a solid mechanical connection resistant to “cold joints”¯ breaking under fatigue, and removes strain.
panhead56 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2021, 02:08 PM   #14
Guru
 
Marco Flamingo's Avatar
 
City: Dewatto
Vessel Name: CHiTON
Vessel Model: Tung Hwa Clipper 30
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 870
Quote:
Originally Posted by panhead56 View Post
“Solder shall not be the sole means of mechanical connection in any circuit¯”.
I came across this when doing some recent electrical with big lugs. I thought that soldering the cables would provide more surface area and less resistance, and it probably does. Problem is that some soft solders can melt at 350F and then the wire flops out because no crimp. Not good to have dangling hot wires. So I soldered and crimped.

I have a green DC indicator light on the panel. I've been contemplating moving/removing it and putting a red LED indicator light above the entire panel and shining down on it. That way it would serve as both an indication that the panel is hot and a night light for the panel so that no cabin lights or a flashlight is required to check what's on/off at night.

I've installed 12V LED singles in various boat applications and never had a problem when charging at a voltage of 14.7. It could be that vendors who sell 12V LED lights realize that they will likely be used on vehicles and boats that will exceed 12V a little. I mistakenly put in a 4V LED on one project and it disappeared in a tiny puff of smoke, so voltage is important, but maybe there is a certain amount of leeway.
__________________
Marco Flamingo
Marco Flamingo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2021, 07:40 AM   #15
TF Site Team
 
Bacchus's Avatar
 
City: Seneca Lake NY
Vessel Name: Bacchus
Vessel Model: MS 34 HT Trawler
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 6,851
Quote:
Originally Posted by panhead56 View Post
I was hoping that your idea on soldering the wires would suffice. It’s a pain to connect the wires behind the panel.
Unfortunately I found information regarding soldering; Per ABYC (E-11.16.3.7), “Solder shall not be the sole means of mechanical connection in any circuit¯”. Further, crimping provides a solid mechanical connection resistant to “cold joints”¯ breaking under fatigue, and removes strain.
I believe ABYC also states someplace that 16 AWG is a min size.
My recollection is there is an allowed exception for both.
I'll bet your VHF radio or Mike has some soldered connections?
I will try to look it up... will report back if I find anything.
__________________
Don
2008 MS 34 HT Trawler
"Bacchus"
Bacchus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2021, 02:51 PM   #16
Guru
 
Martin J's Avatar
 
City: Mt Crested Butte
Vessel Name: Artemis
Vessel Model: Cheoy Lee 67
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 529
I get stuff like that from mpja.com Great company to deal with and they have a whole load of replacement electronics suitable for boats...
Martin J is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2021, 03:46 PM   #17
Senior Member
 
Olebird's Avatar
 
City: Guntersville, Al
Vessel Name: StarLite
Vessel Model: Mainship 30 Pilot II - 2003
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 409
https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/4...2Q-1366192.pdf
__________________
Murphy was an optimist!
All else fails, read the directions!
Web - This Little "STARLITE" of MINE!
Olebird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2021, 08:13 AM   #18
Member
 
City: Oriental
Vessel Name: Puffin
Vessel Model: Overseas Monk 36
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 9
I've found these folks to be very helpful with panel items.
The LED's I used from them were simple push-in.
See their website.

COMMON GROUND MARINE INC.
888 PRODUCTION PLACE NEWPORT BEACH, CA 92663
RobbGrrr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2021, 01:28 PM   #19
Veteran Member
 
PocketAces's Avatar
 
City: North Vancouver
Vessel Name: Pocket Aces
Vessel Model: Mainship 34T '08
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 40
Thanks folks for all the suggestions. I am sure I can now get replacements okay.
Regarding the other issue of how to get the old ones out. The AC panel can simply be pulled out the front as others have mentioned. But the DC ones have a backing plate making it impossible to pull out the front. But I figured out a simple solution. Since the light is dead anyway, there is no harm in destroying it. So when I get to doing the job, I will simply crush the head with pliers and pull them out the back. Should work. Then re-wire as per previous suggestions on this thread.
PocketAces is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2022, 04:31 PM   #20
Member
 
City: Manson
Vessel Name: Serenity Beach
Vessel Model: 2009 34 Mainship FB Trawler
Join Date: Aug 2022
Posts: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by PocketAces View Post
danderer: Thanks for the info about Solico. I will get some and see how they fit/look.
How did these work out for you? Need to replace some on my panel as well.
boiler81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
breaker panel, led indicator light

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Trawler Port Captains
Port Captains are TF volunteers who can serve as local guides or assist with local arrangements and information. Search below to locate Port Captains near your destination. To learn more about this program read here: TF Port Captain Program





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:28 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012