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-   -   Canadian Poll on opening boarder (https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s75/canadian-poll-opening-boarder-51196.html)

roddy 06-05-2020 09:33 AM

Canadian Poll on opening boarder
 
Most Canadians want border with U.S. to remain closed for now, poll says.
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/nationalpost.com/news/most-canadians-want-border-with-u-s-to-remain-closed-for-now-poll-says/amp

Covd 19 under control in BC...
BC gov't update. At end of video Health Minister Dix makes it clear boarder should emain closed.
https://youtu.be/DeuD3Sz4Rxoink

Pau Hana 06-05-2020 10:39 AM

That article is from May 19th....have sentiments changes since then, one must wonder...

koliver 06-05-2020 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pau Hana (Post 886051)
That article is from May 19th....have sentiments changes since then, one must wonder...

The last link in post #1 is yesterday's (June 4th) briefing by our Dr. Henry, the Medical Health Officer , and Minister of Health Dix. at about 16 to 25 minutes in, the origins of our Covid cases is presented in a comprehensive, yet clear and concise way. What that shows very dramatically is that there is a significant influx of cases from Washington State, reduced dramatically when the border closed to non-essential tourism. Then at about 36 minutes, Minister Dix states that measures at the border continue to be key.

Alaskan Sea-Duction 06-05-2020 11:52 AM

Well planning for 2021 has begun......Chance to fix things on the "deferred" list.

Moonfish 06-05-2020 11:55 AM

If I were Canada I would keep it closed until there was proof that US/WA cases have dropped sharply and are under control.

Which, I hope, happens soon...

jungpeter 06-05-2020 11:56 AM

Hi Koliver,

I can fully appreciate the sentiments of coastal BC residents, regarding the statements made in Dr. Henry's briefing. And I don't doubt for a minute the metric stated by yourself that "...there is a significant influx of cases (of Covid) from Washington State, (that) reduced dramatically when the border closed to non-essential tourism." My concern for this sentiment is the lack of supporting metrics regarding the influx of cases of (common colds, tuberculosis, other viral pulmonary infections, hepatitis, etc. pick your poison of choice here) that ALSO reduced dramatically when the border closed.

The reduction of Covid illness attributable to the border exactly matches the definition of a red herring-true unto itself, but misleading or distracting. If you take this border closing to its limit (i.e. close the BC border permanently), undoubtedly the health of the BC population will, at least in the short term, continue to improve. That's a good thing for BC residents, yes? But in the long term, what irreparable damage will have been done to your overall quality of life by the loss of non-essential travellers?

And should this current border closing not be lifted in the near future, coastal BC might well be a cruising paradise for BC residents, but only in the short term. Will you mourn the loss of the Broughton marinas such as Lagoon Cove, Echo Cove, Kwatsi Bay, and others that may well not survive even a single summer of the income from us pesky colonials that admittedly crowd your waterways, but also buy art from your First Nations, support your most excellent marinas, shop in your stores, and take advantage of your (up to now!) famous hospitality?

Something to think about. I'm getting the sense of Not In My Backyard here from many of my BC brethern.

Regards,

Pete

Capt Kangeroo 06-05-2020 01:28 PM

I think that even when the border opens, there may not be near the crossings "either" way due to the inability to get travel insurance that covers covid. At present the major insurers are only saying no coverage while there is a level 3 or 4 advisory in place but given the notoriety of travel insurance companies in handling claims I would not dare make the crossing without specific absolute confirmation that I was covered. Having been the lucky recipient of a $36,000 bill recently for an overnight stay at a US hospital, I can only imagine the cost of being hospitalized on a respirator for a week.

MurrayM 06-05-2020 01:51 PM

The USA is nearing 2,000,000 Covid-19 cases while grinding along at about 20,000 new cases per day...and there has been no pandemic in recorded history that only had one wave. Infections will probably pick up considerably in the coming fall, winter, and spring.

Canada has 94,000 cases and had about 650 new cases yesterday.

It’s going to be quite a while before things get back to normal at the border.

Alaskan Sea-Duction 06-05-2020 02:17 PM

I have not heard insurance denied based on covid status. Where did this come from.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Capt Kangeroo (Post 886113)
I think that even when the border opens, there may not be near the crossings "either" way due to the inability to get travel insurance that covers covid. At present the major insurers are only saying no coverage while there is a level 3 or 4 advisory in place but given the notoriety of travel insurance companies in handling claims I would not dare make the crossing without specific absolute confirmation that I was covered. Having been the lucky recipient of a $36,000 bill recently for an overnight stay at a US hospital, I can only imagine the cost of being hospitalized on a respirator for a week.


Alaskan Sea-Duction 06-05-2020 02:19 PM

Yet the U.S. total is grossly mis- representive.
Quote:

Originally Posted by MurrayM (Post 886129)
The USA is nearing 2,000,000 Covid-19 cases while grinding along at about 20,000 new cases per day...and there has been no pandemic in recorded history that only had one wave. Infections will probably pick up considerably in the coming fall, winter, and spring.

Canada has 94,000 cases and had about 650 new cases yesterday.

It’s going to be quite a while before things get back to normal at the border.


NorWyn 06-05-2020 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jungpeter (Post 886082)
Hi Koliver,

I can fully appreciate the sentiments of coastal BC residents, regarding the statements made in Dr. Henry's briefing. And I don't doubt for a minute the metric stated by yourself that "...there is a significant influx of cases (of Covid) from Washington State, (that) reduced dramatically when the border closed to non-essential tourism." My concern for this sentiment is the lack of supporting metrics regarding the influx of cases of (common colds, tuberculosis, other viral pulmonary infections, hepatitis, etc. pick your poison of choice here) that ALSO reduced dramatically when the border closed.

The reduction of Covid illness attributable to the border exactly matches the definition of a red herring-true unto itself, but misleading or distracting. If you take this border closing to its limit (i.e. close the BC border permanently), undoubtedly the health of the BC population will, at least in the short term, continue to improve. That's a good thing for BC residents, yes? But in the long term, what irreparable damage will have been done to your overall quality of life by the loss of non-essential travellers?

And should this current border closing not be lifted in the near future, coastal BC might well be a cruising paradise for BC residents, but only in the short term. Will you mourn the loss of the Broughton marinas such as Lagoon Cove, Echo Cove, Kwatsi Bay, and others that may well not survive even a single summer of the income from us pesky colonials that admittedly crowd your waterways, but also buy art from your First Nations, support your most excellent marinas, shop in your stores, and take advantage of your (up to now!) famous hospitality?

Something to think about. I'm getting the sense of Not In My Backyard here from many of my BC brethern.

Regards,

Pete

Not sure “not in my backyard” applies to a pandemic that is, apparently nowhere near under control in the U.S. yet. (And yes, in parts of our own country).

I think we share your sentiments about our marinas and small community economies but not to the point of risking a major spike in the virus here.

Hopefully, the, not insignificant, financial measures the Canadian government is implementing to assist small businesses will be available help Lagoon, kwatsi, Echo et al to survive and
be there for us all to enjoy when things settle down.

See you then....and maybe buy you a beer!

Alaskan Sea-Duction 06-05-2020 05:02 PM

Echo Bay is for sale.......

Pierre's at Echo Bay | Lodge & Marina - Broughton Archipelago

MurrayM 06-05-2020 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alaskan Sea-Duction (Post 886141)
Yet the U.S. total is grossly mis- representive.

Why/how?

The total is from confirmed lab tests. If anything, it's low. How do you count asymptomatic people who have no idea they are sick?

At 1,953,122 right now with 25,393 confirmed cases yesterday.

firehoser75 06-05-2020 06:31 PM

Echo Bay has been for sale for quite a while now, as are several of the other Broughton Marinas. Not Covid related, but I am concerned for the long term viability of marinas in this area (Covid has added to my concern).
Peter,
I have many American friends, and much respect for your country and it's history. However, in this instance, I agree with Norwyn. The pandemic is something we (as a world) have never faced before. I think most of the Canadians here speaking in favour of continuing the border closure (for a while more) are more of the mindset that we don't want to chance wasting all of the sacrifices we have made so far should we accidentally "open too early" and allow the importation of new clusters of cases, especially in our more remote areas. It is definitely a more "let's be prudent" mindset than any remotely "anti-American". Personally, I hope that eastern Canadians stay home (their Provinces) for a while until they get better control of the outbreaks they are experiencing. I like them too. Basically the same thoughts and rationality.

I think everyone here totally agrees that we want the smaller out of the way marinas to "get through" this terrible time (in more ways than one) and I look forward to the day where I can spend some time with my American friends enjoying time together boating in BC!

MurrayM 06-05-2020 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firehoser75 (Post 886227)
...I think most of the Canadians here speaking in favour of continuing the border closure (for a while more) are more of the mindset that we don't want to chance wasting all of the sacrifices we have made so far should we accidentally "open too early" and allow the importation of new clusters of cases, especially in our more remote areas. It is definitely a more "let's be prudent" mindset than any remotely "anti-American". Personally, I hope that eastern Canadians stay home (their Provinces) for a while until they get better control of the outbreaks they are experiencing. I like them too. Basically the same thoughts and rationality....

:thumb: :thumb:

Alaskan Sea-Duction 06-06-2020 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MurrayM (Post 886223)
Why/how?

The total is from confirmed lab tests. If anything, it's low. How do you count asymptomatic people who have no idea they are sick?

At 1,953,122 right now with 25,393 confirmed cases yesterday.

So here in the USA, many of the death count were folks that already had heath issues. Doctors were instructed to use a new code that indicated a Covid death, even if the death was not related to Covid. As much as 25%.

MurrayM 06-07-2020 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alaskan Sea-Duction (Post 886741)
So here in the USA, many of the death count were folks that already had heath issues. Doctors were instructed to use a new code that indicated a Covid death, even if the death was not related to Covid. As much as 25%.

You are confusing death count with confirmed case count. I'm talking confirmed cases. Total yesterday in USA was 1,988,544 and will be over 2,000,000 tomorrow. Next closest country is Brazil with 676,494.

Closing on 7 million worldwide and has been over 100,000 new cases per day for a while now.

Confirmed case counts in countries where Covid-19 has attained community spread are low...because nobody would know how many people are asymptomatic and unknowingly spreading the virus.

moparharn 06-07-2020 08:10 AM

Closing the border for non essential travel will hurt Canadians far more than it will hurt Americans during the summer months. In winter it would be worse for the Americans. If Canadians want their border closed that is their prerogative. Trump shut down travel for the same reasons. In six months this thing will be largely over IMO. From what I am hearing- 1. The virus is weakening in the US and not mutating. 2. Vaccination is closer than we think. 3. Hydroxychloroquine does work if used as a preventative and is safe to take for the vast majority of people.

The political civil war being fought in the US by politicians and media has gotten so bad that the combatants are perfectly willing to manipulate a pandemic and social unrest to further their quest for power. It is disgusting and I would close my border just to keep that sh*t out of my country. Bill

caltexflanc 06-07-2020 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alaskan Sea-Duction (Post 886741)
So here in the USA, many of the death count were folks that already had heath issues. Doctors were instructed to use a new code that indicated a Covid death, even if the death was not related to Covid. As much as 25%.

That is purely and simply not true, as even some cursory research will tell you. If anything, deaths have been significantly undercounted. Studies have looked at total deaths from all causes, and compared them to prior years and averages for the same time time periods. The "excess deaths" this year exceed prior years by more than the amount of COVID attributed deaths. Even with things like traffic deaths reduced due to lockdowns.

Alaskan Sea-Duction 06-07-2020 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caltexflanc (Post 886842)
That is purely and simply not true, as even some cursory research will tell you. If anything, deaths have been significantly undercounted. Studies have looked at total deaths from all causes, and compared them to prior years and averages for the same time time periods. The "excess deaths" this year exceed prior years by more than the amount of COVID attributed deaths. Even with things like traffic deaths reduced due to lockdowns.

Basically if the doctor "believes" the death was possible Covid exposure, the death is counted as a covid death. Even if the death was a heart attack, the system is going to count that as a covid death if the doctor believes there MAY have been covid exposure.

The above is what I have been told by several medical doctors and staff personnel. The coding in medical records have been changed to show higher results. This info is also out there if you want to research it.

So the death count is not necessarily a true reflection of the total numbers killed by covid. It is significantly lower that reported by the press.


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