Survey

[Leeward III]

Where is it written that a buyer cannot have a survey done prior to making an offer on a boat. To me a survey is my way of looking at a vessel. Are brokers trying to hide problems? I guess I don’t understand. I’m paying for the survey and haul out, it’s being done with the owners ok.

 

[SteveK]

It is in the common sense journal. To be spending your money on an asset that you do not have an option on purchasing is ..........
Along comes another buyer and makes an offer which is accepted, but at least you have the survey.

 

[Portage_Bay]

If you are interested enough in the boat to have it surveyed, make an offer, lock it down. A reputable broker will write a contract that gives you the option to walk if you don't like the survey. And return your deposit.

 

[twistedtree]

No rules against it, though I think unusual, especially for the buyer. Most buyers want to know they have an acceptable and exclusive deal on the boat before spending $$ on a survey. And as a seller, I don’t think I would want the boat hauled and surveyed unless I was confident that there was an acceptable deal in place.

But you say the seller agreed to it, so who is in the way? It’s not up to the broker. They are advisors to the seller, but have no inherent control over the boat.

I think the concern with all these issues is that neither party wants to have their time or money wasted by the other party. There are a LOT of tire kicking, dreaming buyers out there who are all talk and no action and will waste a ton of your time. And at the same time a lot of crap boats that people are trying to pawn off on someone else. Nobody wants to be on the losing end of one of those deals.

 

[PPandE]

Get your own broker and have his escrow account hold the deposit so that there are no delays in returning it if you choose to walk away. You can renegotiate price based on findings in the survey.

 

[Jeff F]

I think a fine halfway measure is to have your surveyor do a pre-survey. Essentially a detailed walk-around without moving or launching/hauling the boat.

Then make an offer subject to further detailed survey/sea trial etc.

A good surveyor can tell you a lot in a 2-3 hour consult.

But if you're interested in the boat and it's properly priced, the standard system favors getting an accepted offer early in the process. This prevents it from being sold to someone else while you're spending time and money evaluating further. There is no real downside to the buyer.

 

[Comodave]

Nothing says you can’t do it but if I was the seller I would say no. If you can’t make a written offer with the deposit then I would not consider you a serious buyer. You may indeed be serious but how would I know that?

 

[jgwinks]

I've always done my own extensive look before making an offer and getting a real survey. So far I've not had a surveyor tell me much I didn't find for myself. Maybe I should go into that business. I did however have a buyer who lived 500 miles away have my boat surveyed before making an offer. He was looking for that particular model and mine was the best he saw online. He never saw the boat himself till he came to sail it away. Seemed kind of weird to me at the time but the boat sold and I got paid so oh well.

 

[mvweebles]

While the financial onus of a survey is on the buyer, seller has some effort and cost with a survey. They are responsible for sea trial and getting the boat to the yard.

So my question to the OP: What's in it for the Seller to go through the hassle and liability without an offer? On one hand, I might politely decline. On the other, I might accept and then be very firm on my asking price knowing the buyer has already made a decision s/he wants the boat. After all, not like the seller had an offer fall-out of contract which is always a red-flag. So in a way, no harm. Buyer made an offer, seller declined. No need to disclose.

Careful - this is a situation where the outcome may not be what you hoped for.....

Peter

 

[fgarriso]

You can get someone that is very knowledgeable (surveyor) person to assist you in looking at the boat. With the understanding that if the offer is accepted, he or she would get the job of doing the full survey.

 

[Painless]

In Southern California trying to get a good surveyor, a haul out slot , and an engine survey (If desired) takes a lot of coordination. Usually a broker with good connections can arrange the haul out but surveyors can be tough to secure at the date and time you want. Other than putting a deposit down (to the broker's escrow account) there really isn't any risk to the buyer if there is an issue. Generally you are responsible for all expenses related to the survey and haul out and the seller provides a captain to get the boat to the yard for the haul out and the sea trial.

 

[Airstream345]

I think you're missing the point of an accepted Purchase and Sale Agreement. That's there to protect YOU from spending money on a haul, survey, etc. only to lose the deal to someone else. The P&S locks the sale of the vessel for a time period at a pre-agreed price. If at the end of a survey you want to pass you can. If you want to negotiate you can. If the seller rejects your negotiation, they can.

 

[SAABseanSCANIA]

I'm not sure what incentive a seller would have in facilitating a survey/haul/sea-trial, allowing access to their vessel, and footing the bill for your sea-trial fuel if they didn't know where you stood in terms of a purchase price. It's not like there isn't negotiating power after an offer had been made, accepted, and then a survey performed.


I also don't think it's any safeguard for a broker; it's the owner's call, not the broker's. If the broker doesn't want to present the oddball proposition to the seller to undergo a survey without an offer.... he's protecting the seller's time (AKA doing his job). It would be a clear departure from the norm in any case if someone went for it; I too would probably say no.

 

[Leeward III]

We had the survey without a purchase and sale agreement. Split the costs with the owner.
Much to the consternation of the broker, we found $80,000 worth of repairs. Keel full of blisters, bottom paint flaking off, oil pans shot, cracked front windows, turbos not working. We walked. Cost me $900 for a survey, haul out and ride. We will keep looking!

 

[Shrew]

Where is it written that a buyer cannot have a survey done prior to making an offer on a boat. To me a survey is my way of looking at a vessel. Are brokers trying to hide problems? I guess I don’t understand. I’m paying for the survey and haul out, it’s being done with the owners ok.

Try and get a home inspection on a house listed for sale without a P&S.

The signed P&S protects both parties. Surveys can cost up to $1,000. How happy will you be after you to pay $1K for a survey, only to find out that the seller sells the vessel to a 3rd party the next day??

Surveys take hours. The seller and/or broker don't want to sit around for a couple of hours to have you offer 30% under ask once the survey is done.

The process is:

1) Buyer views the vessel (Here you can visually inspect to your heart's content)

2) Buyer signs and submits an Offer along with 'good faith' deposit.

3) Seller signs offer

4) Vessel is Surveyed

5 Vessel is Sea Trialed

6) Sale Closes

 

[Shrew]

We had the survey without a purchase and sale agreement. Split the costs with the owner.
Much to the consternation of the broker, we found $80,000 worth of repairs. Keel full of blisters, bottom paint flaking off, oil pans shot, cracked front windows, turbos not working. We walked. Cost me $900 for a survey, haul out and ride. We will keep looking!

OR....Seller got you to pay for half of a survey and now he knows what he needs to fix to sell his boat.

 

[sunchaser]

It seems that a seller agreeing to a pre-offer survey is negotiating against himself. Not too smart.

A buyer insisting on a pre-sale survey likewise is not very smart either as the buyer too is negotiating against himself.

A savvy, well intended and experienced buyer can look a boat over in great detail and decide if a standard offer sheet is worth pursuing.

 

[Bacchus]

It seems that a seller agreeing to a pre-offer survey is negotiating against himself. Not too smart.



A buyer insisting on a pre-sale survey likewise is not very smart either as the buyer too is negotiating against himself.



A savvy, well intended and experienced buyer can look a boat over in great detail and decide if a standard offer sheet is worth pursuing.

I get your logic and see your point in SOME situations.... if you are close by and no significant travel reqd it might be worthwhile to look it over well. Many owners may be reluctant to commit hours / days for a buyer inspection with no idea if buyer price range is even reasonable / in the ball park.

Plus the seller can proceed with angeement / sale while the inspection & offer is getting done. As seller I would be more likely to agree to a reasonable purchase offer than a completely unknown future offer that ties up a lot of my opportunity to show the boat.

I would not purchase a boat w /o a pre- sale survey (or thorough self inspection Including haul out & sea trial... I wouldn't put the expense & effort in w/o an agreed purchase offer. My feeling is the purchase offer favors the buyer much more than the seller...
There are several steps / contingencies in a well written PO that allows the buyer to back out (certainly more than the seller)
The offered price is a starting point for any negotiations based on inspection, survey, sea trial, haul out findings... all are basically factual and excellent backing for negotiations.
Do a self look inspection before initiating a PO- sure... if convenient

 

[mvweebles]

It seems that a seller agreeing to a pre-offer survey is negotiating against himself. Not too smart.



A buyer insisting on a pre-sale survey likewise is not very smart either as the buyer too is negotiating against himself.



A savvy, well intended and experienced buyer can look a boat over in great detail and decide if a standard offer sheet is worth pursuing.

As a seller, I wouldn't have an issue with a pre-offer survey as long as there was a non-refundable deposit to cover expenses to get boat to yard (a couple grand, at least). I don't see a downside for me as a seller - boat remains on market, I can always say no to whatever offer might be made. Buyer is in a lousy position.

Peter