Steel boat questions

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I’ve had my KK Whaleback 48. I don’t want another monster boat. We lived aboard for 18 months before I developed some health problems. It was a great boat but way too big. We never filled it up and never wore half of what we had on the boat. I don’t want to do that again. It’s like a mansion for a couple. Pretty but silly.
I don’t have any doubts about getting insurance on a new build. I was saying to take a used euro boat and convert it to US spec isn’t feasible. It would be extremely expensive.
I have perused reality. Linssen is much less money. I have the bid. I’m just trying to get my head around steel hills and any long term issues. If my health stays good I’d like to be aboard for a decade so I want to understand the issues.
Thanks again.

If 10 years is your horizon, a new Linssen would require near zero maintenance unique to a steel boat, and less maintenance than would be unique to a fiberglass boat over that time period. Like I mentioned, buy an air brush for touch up. In line with that, get a white or whitish exterior color scheme. Touch ups are invisible with those colors, while darker colors can be much more easily seen.
 
Haha. I just looked up KK over 50 feet. A 2010 55 is on the market for 1.5 million. A2013 Selene 54 for 1.4. They are just huge deep draft boats. That is not what I’m looking for at over twice the price of the new 45 Linssen. I’ve had the big boat and I just don’t see the point unless I plan to do some trans-oceanic passages.
My concerns focus on the steel hull issues. Not the style or brand of boat. I have that pretty well fleshed out but I still appreciate the input. All outside opinions are learning opportunities for me.
 
Clarke

Steel hulls aside, have you been on a Linssen, Helmsman or North Pacific in the size range you are considering? Appears they are all equally priced.
 
As of yet no. I’m trying to decide if a steel hull is worth considering. A flight to holland just to look at a boat isn’t really in my budget unless it’s a real possibility. But yes I will crawl all over the list of candidates when the time for action comes. Good point though. I don’t want to suffer from contempt prior to investigation.
 
As with so many hardware decisions, and really a boat is a huge collection of hardware, it comes down to parts and service availability in the geographic area you will be needing parts and service.

Ask the yards you will use about service and repair of steel and if you are considering a used Linssen, European parts.

Steel in the right hands is very easy to repair. The coatings not so much if you're looking for a glossy yacht finish. Though I suspect it's no more challenging / expensive than maintaining the finish on a re-painted fiberglass hull.

Corrosion protection, zincs and bottom paint, are critical.



If I could afford a new build it would be steel. This comes from a career experience of running steel work boats. I trust steel more than fiberglass or wood.
 
If I could afford a new build it would be steel. This comes from a career experience of running steel work boats. I trust steel more than fiberglass or wood.

And your 40 or so year old FRP Tolly keeps chugging along. :whistling:
 
Hi
It is unbelievable to think stereotypically that if any steel built boat has a problem of rusting it would be all steel boats, it is evidence of the age of all types of steel ships in traffic up to more than 100 years old, i have not seen glass fiber this age and on the other hand glass fiber on the boat has bad moisture damage. ..

Since the oldest fiberglass boats in the world are about 70, it's no wonder you haven't seen 100 year old ones. Many of the very first fiberglass boats are still in use. Yes it can have moisture damage (especially if built during the years when osmosis/hydrolysis was poorly understood) but then steel boat can have moisture damage too. The spongy and rotted parts are embedded wood and speak to the quality of construction, not fiberglass as a material.

The big difference in maintenance as I see it is that you MUST maintain a steel (or wood) boat. You CHOOSE maintain a fiberglass boat if you want to keep it looking good. In either material, polyurethane paint will last as long and have the same maintenance. Fiberglass boats are actually the bane of the boating industry, so many of them built and most are still around which makes selling new ones problematic. They do not decay or die and must be physically disposed of when they go unwanted.
 
Since the oldest fiberglass boats in the world are about 70, it's no wonder you haven't seen 100 year old ones. Many of the very first fiberglass boats are still in use. Yes it can have moisture damage (especially if built during the years when osmosis/hydrolysis was poorly understood) but then steel boat can have moisture damage too. The spongy and rotted parts are embedded wood and speak to the quality of construction, not fiberglass as a material.

The big difference in maintenance as I see it is that you MUST maintain a steel (or wood) boat. You CHOOSE maintain a fiberglass boat if you want to keep it looking good. In either material, polyurethane paint will last as long and have the same maintenance. Fiberglass boats are actually the bane of the boating industry, so many of them built and most are still around which makes selling new ones problematic. They do not decay or die and must be physically disposed of when they go unwanted.
That's a reasonable point. If you want a boat you can ignore, maintenance wise - at least from the full and deck perspective - then fiberglass is the way to go, or perhaps aluminum if you keep anodes on it. Steel can go to heck in a handbasket if used and ignored. But if you are into keeping a vessel looking good like some of the more demented among us are, then steel, properly prepared for use, has a great many advantages.

I once had a friend who thought a great business opportunity was some kind of monster paper shredder you could drop an old fiberglass boat into since they seem to hang around long after everyone has lost interest. He might be right.
 
Just an FYI. What started me on this steel idea was when when finished the loop we were trying to decide what next. I started looking into the European canals which led me to the boats they use. The first thing I found was all the repurposed barges. Some of them were from the 1800’s. Then I realized these ancient monsters were all steel. These guys were going all over the north sea(in good weather), and the Scandinavian countries. Granted a lot of them had had some new plates welded on after 80 or so years. I started to question my fear and horror over steel boats. Then I thought of every ship in use. Every barge and work boat. Could I be wrong about steel?
So here I am now questioning my fact free assumptions. Plus getting the input from all of you folks is really helping me sharpen up my thought process. I hope.
Clarke
 
Greetings,
Mr. CG. I could be wrong but I think many of the 100+ year old vessels you are referring to are IRON, not steel. I think iron has a better resistance to corrosion than steel. Then again, it may be that these legacy boats have had scrupulous maintenance. Apples and oranges, perhaps?
 
For sure apples and oranges but it started me thinking about steel boats. I’m not buying a 100 year old anything. I’m already married.
 
Greetings,
Mr. GC.



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We have owned a Kadey Krogen and that is the extent of my liveaboard experience. Now we are thinking about jumping in again and have found the Dutch brand Linssen. The big issue for me is that it is a steel boat and I know nothing about steel boats.
Does anyone have any general knowledge about steel boats or specifically about Linssen?
Any input would be appreciated. It might lead me to some answers.

Thanks

Clarke Gillespie

I agree with Delfin, Dutch builders are among the best, for both steel and FRP, and today's steel vessels are a far cry from what they were 20 or more years ago from a rust perspective. Modern prep and coatings have significantly reduced coating failures and corrosion. A good analogy is how well modern cars resist rusting, compared to what we experienced in 70s and before.

Perhaps of greater concern is resale. In N. Am steel (and aluminum) recreational vessels are pretty rare, and the average buyer doesn't understand or embrace them, and as such they tend to re-sell slowly. One of the reasons to build in steel and aluminum is to accommodate one off designs, which in fact may be the real reason they sell more slowly than production FRP vessels.

In this article I do go into detail about the pros and cons of various hull materials https://stevedmarineconsulting.com/a-boat-buyers-top-ten-guide-to-a-pre-offer-evaluation-part-i/ including steel. It includes a photo of a steel vessel during salvage (it was lifted while still flooded), it exemplifies the material's ability to deform significantly before yielding.
 
????

Every steel boat I've seen was painted, paint eventually fails and must be redone. You can paint a fiberglass boat if you don't want to polish and wax it, but again it has a life and must be redone. If you ignore that life on a fiberglass boat, it will still be floating and ready for paint 30 years later. Not so a steel boat.

Actually, if you ignore steel, it will end up looking pretty bad, just like an ignored fiberglass boat. But, 30 yrs later, it too will probably still be floating. Yes, there will be rust stains and streaks all along the hull, but it takes a very long time for steel to rust all the way through. Think about how many rust streaked hulls are plying the oceans of the world! But, why ignore it when painting is relatively easy.

m/v MOJO Robt. Beebe 49-10 Passagemaker in steel
www.mvmojo.com
 
Interesting , when we looked for a Dutch boat 3 years ago we considered Linssen quite expensive compared to many other smaller Dutch boat builders .
We visited the factory and had a very impressive tour , everything is built and designed in house . The people we met were very helpfull .
Most Linssen owners do not use their boats on oceans . Their main market seems to be for the Dutch inland and coastal waters . Also very popular in Germany and Russia ! .We ended up buying a Vripack , heavier design , CE A classification , more suitable for rougher NewZealand conditions .
Keep in mind if you buy new from Linssen factory you will be able to get 21 % BTW tax off the listprice . We found Linssen has many options to be added to the price . Many options you would think should be included .
While their boats come of a production line I think you will find them very helpfull to accommodate your specific US requirements .
A more general look at Dutch steel boats on : botentekoop.nl
Follow motorboten , then motorkruisers
You will see over 4000 Dutch boats .
We are very happy with steel , ours is painted in Awlgrip .
Let me know if you need any other help , we have many contacts in NL
Wilfried
 
I had a Linssen for sale but I waited for it to close before I responded to this thread. It was a 2002 and if it weren't for a problem with the engine, it was as close to a "flawless" survey as I have seen. The owner had the hull painted and he kept up with the zincs, but he rarely used his boat and did very little maintenance, both evidenced by high metals in the oil analysis. I have concluded approximatley 7 Linssen sales and several of them were from repeat Linssen owners. I don't currently have a Linssen listed, so no accusations about self-serving interests please.

As to steel, one of my specialties, I sent a survey to about 30 clients who owned or had recently sold their steel trawler and one of my questions was if they would buy another steel boat. It was a multiple choice question, but only one of them said he would consider fiberglass, all of the rest were steel committed.

Judy
 
A lot of good comments regarding steel, all good. I owned a 71' steel ketch for 18 years and had many miles of enjoyment. A boat designed for ocean passage, she kept us safe during a 4 year voyage from east coast US to New Zealand and back. One thing I kept close track of is electrolysis. There was damage when I bought the boat and I had it corrected, (engine was grounded to hull). I kept a meter on board so that I could test and measure any stray current that would cause trouble. Good luck...
 
Linssen has very good reputation in marketing, as well in boat building. As a french, I have been very impressed the first time I visited dutch boatyards. Some are not so big like in the good old times of small companies building yachts in France and UK during the seventies and the eighties. I think in US,you still keep this kind of industry. About steel,when we left Maasbracht in the south of Holland, on the way back to gibraltar, we hit a very large piece of wood, like a table. It was near Brest,a serious playground for serious sailors with tides and currents. When entering in the marina of Moulin BLanc, the marineros said me, hello Sir, doyou need some chairs with the table. This table 3cm thick was stucked in my bulbous bow. We hear nothing, and during this passage with some rough weather, i felt nothing. That story to say that with a steel boat, we feel safe and comfortable...We only have some very minor scratch on the paint underwater.
There is many small and very professional boatyard in the NL as Tinnemans bv who built our 60 metric tons trawler. More or less 8 to 10mm of steel. Of course, sometimes, you need to use gloves, small pencils and mix comp A with component B to repare some rusty spots. Not a big deal. By the way, every 10 years, consider do the sanblasting ou high pressure water blasting of the hull. Not worst than polish a full fiberglass superstructure after ten years in Florida or Med.
One issue, may be, make business with the Dutch....you need to patient and efficient. No space for improvisation or luck, they are killers in business but very friendly people.
Anyway you can contact Jan, Tinnemans BV, he is building very professional boats and is fluent in english.
A global view on the second market: booten te koop.
One more think, never forget that Dutch are surrounded by canals. It means that most of the time, like linssen, their trawlers or powerboats are cat b or c, so not for ocean passages. You must look, from my point of view, for an Cat a with stabilization ( active or not)
 
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Wish I could say that about my 1987 Volvo MS4A transmissions. If you can find parts, you pay dearly for them.
 
We've had our 52' Kristen trawler (small BC boatmaker that went out of business in mid-2000's) for 2 1/2 years. It's steel all the way up to the upper deck, then FG for the "hat". It's 16 yrs old and has been well maintained by two PO's. We try hard to maintain it very well, but it can be difficult to keep up with the small rust repairs sometimes. (And "small rust" becomes "big rust" if you don't get on it.) But every few months, I get out the chipping hammer, drill, wire wheels, cup brushes, Ospho and epoxy primer, and in a few days, I can tackle 20 - 30 little spots pretty effectively. To be honest, I should tackle every little rust spot the minute it shows up, but who does that? :)

If you buy a new boat, or a used boat that's been properly maintained, and properly prepped and painted if it's been repainted, you shouldn't have any maintenance issues related to it being a steel boat. And I have to say, I like knowing that if someone (or something - like the dock pilings in Key West City Marina, during Hurricane Irma) runs into us, we're likely to come out ahead.
 
I've never posted before, but I've been intrigued with the Linssen and some of the other Dutch designs. For example, there is a glass Northline which has some unique features, but I thought the issue (problem) was converting the electrical systems to US standards. Has anyone experienced that - or am I off base? Here is a link to the Northline: https://www.north-line.nl/en/north-line/10/84/north-line-37-wheelhouse.html
 
Greetings,
Mr. CG. I could be wrong but I think many of the 100+ year old vessels you are referring to are IRON, not steel. I think iron has a better resistance to corrosion than steel. Then again, it may be that these legacy boats have had scrupulous maintenance. Apples and oranges, perhaps?

You are correct. Turn of the (previous) century Dutch Tjalks and Skutzes were most often one-offs with cold-riveted iron hulls and steel superstructures.

Mine's been out of the water to have her hull scraped twice in the past 116 years, and she has yet to spring a leak.

Her steel superstructure, on the other hand, needs constant attention, without which a simple paint touch-up routine will turn into a major renovation project in no time.

The good news is that these iron-hulled sailing barges are practically indestructible. Think of an Abrams Tank in a world of Toyota Corollas.



Jacques
 
Another great article, Steve. Thanks.

The Dashews built their boats in composite or unpainted aluminum. They felt aluminum was the best as it did not have the rust issues of steel, but still watertight and quiet inside underway.

do steel and aluminum boats present a challenge for haul out at the average pleasure craft yard?
 
Another great article, Steve. Thanks.

The Dashews built their boats in composite or unpainted aluminum. They felt aluminum was the best as it did not have the rust issues of steel, but still watertight and quiet inside underway.

do steel and aluminum boats present a challenge for haul out at the average pleasure craft yard?

Nope.
 
Interesting discussions but as a native of the Netherlands it would be wise to check the websites in Holland for steel boats that are on sale (Marktplaats, something like EBay). What I gather from the discussions in Dutch is that frequent haul outs are routine for painting, fixing dents, leaking super structures and that all of them seem to require bow and/or stern thrusters. I am sure that a Linssens will last forever but their engine sizes and types do not seem to measure up to US expectations. Other than that, if you can live with those issues, it will be a fine boat to own because it is a proven solid and quality vessel.
 
Would a fiberglass boat survive any of these incidents?


1) Entering river in North East USA, flood tide, 6 knot current, boat doing 7; total 13 Kts over the bottom. Sees boat ahead cut outside a green marker, does the same and hits a rock. Slides up almost 1/3 of the boat length, slides back and rudder hits another rock. Sails on to marina and a few days later hauls for minor rudder repair.


2) Misses turn and lays on a reef at Ponape for almost two weeks. Pulled over the reef by a large tug boat, on her way four days later.
K1%20stuck%20on%20the%20reef%20for%20days-S.jpg



3) Her dock totally destroyed during a typhoon.

Dock%20wrecked-S.jpg



Tied to stand off anchor in the river that allows her to swing into the seawall. Bow pounds on seawall for three hours.
462%20hitting%20seawall-L.jpg




Seawall damaged.
sea%20wall-M.jpg



Paint and fairing damaged, boat not even dented.
Bow%20damage-M.jpg
 
Everything is a trade off with boats. With fiberglass the worst thing that can happen is to high center on a rock or reef. The result is that the hull is abraded away, sometimes remarkably quickly, and the boat sinks. These rarely do much hull damage to a steel boat.
 
Clarke,


I think you are wise to consider a new build from some of the Dutch builders and I am also a believer that today's steel boats are far better prepped than the past, resulting in far more confidence that corrosion control is easily managed. If you like the Linssen brand, do yourself a favor and check out the Aquanaut Voyager boat line. Home - Aquanaut
 
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