dual bow rollers

The friendliest place on the web for anyone who enjoys boating.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.

JanisK

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2011
Messages
88
Location
Australia
Vessel Name
NightinGayle
Vessel Make
Tradewinds 42
As my CQR anchor needs replacing (I'm getting a Sarca #8 http://www.anchorright.com.au/downloads/sarca_flyer.pdf ) and will likely need to replace the bow roller/bowsprit assembly I have been debating with myself whether I should get a dual roller bowsprit.

I am new to anchoring - mostly berth or run up onto a beach - but have aspirations of coastal cruising so will need to get that experience and knowledge.* Having read Earl Hinz' book on anchoring with his advice on using dual bow anchors on some occasions and using a snubber too it seems a second roller would be very handy.

What surprises me is that despite widespread googling I cant find any.* What does the forum think?
 
Here is a picture of the set up on my 43' Marine Trader.
Port side anchor is a CQR on about 15' of chain, then nylon rode.
Stbd anchor is a Bruce, on 250' of all chain rode.

The windless has a gypsy for nylon rode on port side, chain for starboard. So far I've always anchored with the Bruce, but no problems so far. Only problem I've had is on a mooring, where the pennant hangs up on the Bruce if the wind is light or shifts.
 

Attachments

  • img_4197.jpg
    img_4197.jpg
    54.6 KB · Views: 147
  • img_4200.jpg
    img_4200.jpg
    49.6 KB · Views: 137
  • img_3686.jpg
    img_3686.jpg
    97.1 KB · Views: 145
  • img_4657.jpg
    img_4657.jpg
    99.7 KB · Views: 143
  • 260214_10150226153352467_560357466_7497134_2448644_n.jpg
    260214_10150226153352467_560357466_7497134_2448644_n.jpg
    105.3 KB · Views: 150
  • cimg7471.jpg
    cimg7471.jpg
    119 KB · Views: 141
Looks like you have triple rollers?
 
Well, technically, yes.
The pulpit has two built in rollers, the CQR is on the port roller, stbd roller remains empty (I run the snubber line through there and to the samson post). Then there is a stainless roller bolted on top of the pulpit, just a hair to stbd of center line - the Bruce rests there.
 
Gemma:

Are you planning on mounting two anchors at the same time? Some do, obviously, so need a separate roller for each. Most use only one anchor at a time, so only need a single roller. I mount only one anchor on the roller. The spare resides in the lazarette, where it acts as ballast.
 
7tiger7 wrote:
Stbd anchor is a Bruce, on 250' of all chain rode.
*Be prepared for Marin telling you the Bruce is no good.
smile.gif
 

Attachments

  • back in water2.jpg
    back in water2.jpg
    92.6 KB · Views: 194
Is that where the song "Don't bring me down, Bruce" is from?
I didn't know Marin was a famous 70's singer ;)
 
OK, pop quiz, Where is Marins Bruce anchor? Or what does he say he uses it for?

First correct answer gets a free drink whenever they see me.

Ken


-- Edited by 2bucks on Saturday 11th of February 2012 08:46:38 PM
 
I think he uses it as a door stop in his garage.

Mike
Palm Coast FL
 
Keith (and others)
I was thinking to use a single anchor mostly and use the second roller for the snubber on those occasions. However should a storm situation arise I could the second roller to run a second anchor from the bow to have a forked or hammerlock moor. Without a second roller it would, I imagine, be more problematic how to drop, operate, retrieve and tie off a second anchor as I wouldnt be able to do so from the bowsprit. Or am I missing something and am completely on the wrong track?

Thanks for your help.

Janis
 
Janis,
I have a double roller set up on Tidahapah but only carry my primo anchor on the port roller (suits the chain gypsy), Prime anchor is a SARCA Excel #8.
My snubber lays over the same roller.
The secondary roller is for a second anchor if required or for the reef pick (s/s star anchor) this has 10 mts chain and all rope rode. on a retrival buoy system.

Mostly in strong winds up in the Swains and coast reef areas, if I am pre warned re strong winds I attach a second anchor on the front of my primary anchor with about 10/15 mts chain and bed it well in. I carry my secondary anchors in the lazzerette, a 45 lb plough and a large s/s danforth anchor.
 
Benn
Thanks for your input. Is your dual roller bowsprit a combined dual production model, custom made or two separate fittings? I havent been able to find any already made dual roller products on the net and as my timber bowsprit that the roller/s will be mounted on is only 20cm wide I cant accommodate two separate units. Any suggested suppliers?

Are you happy with your Sarca Excel #8 - same as I am planning to get? Also if you have a separate roller/bowsprit for your Sarca 8 is it a Sarca W5 or a W6? Im being told that a W6 is better?

Sorry for the lots of questions.
Cheers
Janis
 
Gemma wrote:
Keith (and others)
I was thinking to use a single anchor mostly and use the second roller for the snubber on those occasions. However should a storm situation arise I could the second roller to run a second anchor from the bow to have a forked or hammerlock moor. Without a second roller it would, I imagine, be more problematic how to drop, operate, retrieve and tie off a second anchor as I wouldnt be able to do so from the bowsprit. Or am I missing something and am completely on the wrong track?

Thanks for your help.

Janis
*Many cruisers strongly suggest NOT anchoring from the bowsprit during storm conditions.* They have seen too*many broken ones.* Having personally never been through a big storm while on my boat or in a harbor hit by one, I have never seen widespread bowsprit damage (though looking at many boats I can see it happening).

Many posters in this forum if using all chain rode put the legs of their snubbers through chocks/hawsepipes before securing on deck.* They just let the chail lay loose over the roller.
 
Most cruisers will use 2 bow rollers , to hold anchots of a different style.

A CQR that buries with say a Danforth or Bruce with larger fluke area.

The CQR is needed in weeds .

Contemplate a trip line to a small buoy. This will show all later anchoring folks where your anchors are , to not foul you.

The line is also great in a foul bottom to get your anchors back.
 
Just a quick question guys. For you folks who have a twin anchor setup on your bow is the purpose for the two anchors to allow you to choose which anchor you want depending on the type of bottom or to give you the ability to set two anchors easily?

If you are setting two anchors, it would seem a bit difficult to do that from the bow. I would be concerned about fowling the first anchor line as I was attempting to set the second.
My second anchor a fortress is stowed in the swim platform box and the one time I set a second anchor I used the dinghy to set it. This setup seems to work but more work.
 
Here's my setup. Primary is the Spade to Starboard.
 

Attachments

  • high res 006.jpg
    high res 006.jpg
    216 KB · Views: 201
  • high res 001.jpg
    high res 001.jpg
    125.3 KB · Views: 215
timjet wrote:
Just a quick question guys. For you folks who have a twin anchor setup on your bow is the purpose for the two anchors to allow you to choose which anchor you want depending on the type of bottom or to give you the ability to set two anchors easily?

If you are setting two anchors, it would seem a bit difficult to do that from the bow. I would be concerned about fowling the first anchor line as I was attempting to set the second.
My second anchor a fortress is stowed in the swim platform box and the one time I set a second anchor I used the dinghy to set it. This setup seems to work but more work.
*More so for a second anchor.* If a different bottom, the two anchors I would use would be a danforth for softer bottoms and a grapple for rocky.* The second anchor on the bow is more of a backup because it's similar...probably my smaller delta after I buy a newer, much bigger*manson.
 
Jan, you have chosen a great anchor. I use the size 6 (22kg) Super Sarca, (but the Excel was not out when I got mine), and although it looks a bit agricultural, by crikey, it works. The Excel is supposed to be as good or even a bit better in holding power, so in my view, (and experience, with these type of anchors as well, you might say), I don't think you need worry about a double system in your case. It does not sound like you are planning world cruising, so a good primary set-up is the way to go. It would be expensive to try and replace your bowsprit, and as you say it is not wide enough for two full sized rollers side by side. My advice is get the appropriately sized Sarca roller assembly, and maybe mount it slightly off-centre for reasons explained below. Then if you don't have hawse pipes either side of the bow to pass a snubber sling through, ie one from each side meeting at the chain hook, then you can just pass a single snubber out under the retaining bar to hook it on the chain. With a Sarca and all chain rode, for what you are planning to do, I doubt you'll ever need a second anchor they are that good, but if you ever do, Benn's method of attaching it in front of your main anchor with a few extra metres of chain is probably the best way. That or having an anchor buddy to place on the rode and let down. I actually modified my bow roller assembly before I bought the Sarca, so don't have one of theirs, as I got a hinged assembly and fitted it inside and in place of the original old bronze one because it had no retainer, and the damn CQR I later replaced used to sometimes jump out of the roller and dent the gun'l. Actually, what I do have is a smaller secondary single roller alongside the main, (hence the mid-line offset idea), which in most (light) weather situations I pass the snubber over, to avoid the hassle of passing it through he main roller, (and a possible jamming if up anchoring in a hurry or at night), and you could probably do that also. 20cm would cope with that I think - compare with my pics below, especially if you don't have a hawse pipe each side of the bow to allow use of a snubber bridle. In all the years we've been anchoring, on only one occasion was that secondary roller not up to the task, and I just dropped the snubber into the space between it and the main roller assembly when it blew up, rather than muck around in the dark trying to pass it through the main roller. Interestingly, that same blow saw a yacht nearby jam its snubber hook, and therefore the anchor chain as well, in the bow roller, trying to do a quick up-anchor because it was dragging, and they ended up aground....

Oh, and yes - old pics, so I have taken one swivel off now.
 

Attachments

  • image002.jpg
    image002.jpg
    56 KB · Views: 169
  • image003.jpg
    image003.jpg
    69.4 KB · Views: 146
Here's my setup on a 32' Nordic Tug. *The primary is a 35# Delta with 200' of chain, with the LoFrans Tigres mounted offset for a straight pull on the chain gypsy. *My secondary roller lines up with the rope drum. *in this picture is a 27# Simpson folding anchor, but I've replaced that with a 15# Bruce. *I use the Bruce with 150' of 1/2" brait for fishing and a lunch hook in calm conditions. *Note the chain snubber coming up through the chocks. *The Delta with chain has proven to be sufficient in most cases, but if I need to anchor up in severe weather (which I avoid), I carry 30' of chain that I can attach to the folding Simpson to the Delta in a tandem rig.
*
 

Attachments

  • bow_rollers.jpg
    bow_rollers.jpg
    162 KB · Views: 186
The most important thing to have when anchoring is pretty anchor attendants like 7tiger7 has.
 
My bow sprit is timber with a bronze roller either side, the cheek plates are a little small but after 17 years still have not changed them. These were made from a mould that Rogers & Lough have in Brisbane. They are one of the very old small boat engineering firms on the Brisbane River.

*

Not the best photo but you see what I mean.


-- Edited by Tidahapah on Sunday 12th of February 2012 10:31:24 AM
 

Attachments

  • p1000424.jpg
    p1000424.jpg
    116.3 KB · Views: 129
LOL... yes too bad the only thing they know how to do is mix a cocktail...
 
Mike wrote:
I think he uses it as a door stop in his garage.
That's correct so don't forget to collect your beer at Ken's retirement RV park. *A doorstop is aobut the only thing I think a Bruce is good for unless you do your boating in a North Sea oil rig in which case it's actually a pretty good anchor if it's sized correctly.

Many newer Grand Banks models have dual pulpit rollers. *Most of the ones I see in Bellingham, as well as other makes of boats with dual-rollers, that actually carry two anchors-- a lot of them don't--- carry two different types. *The most common configuration I see is a Bruce on one roller and a CQR on the other. *I have seen a few boats on the docks near us with a Danforth-type on one roller and a Bruce or CQR on the other.

The couple of times I've asked one of the GB owners how they happened to pick the configuration they have they have always answered that they want anchors for different bottom types. *I've not yet met anyone up here who anchors with tandem or Veed-out bow anchors. *(Using a stern anchor is not uncommon.)

The typical answer I've gotten is they want one anchor for sand and mud (Danforth or CQR) and one anchor for weedy, rocky, etc bottoms (Bruce).

I have no idea if these people anchor out a lot, and if they do if they actually do "match" the anchor to the bottom.

All the people I've met who really do anchor out a lot and have a lot of anchoring experience have just one anchor on the bow. *Like Keith, however, they usually have a second main anchor stowed on board somewhere, usually of a different type. *A big Fortress seems to be a preferred second anchor.


-- Edited by Marin on Sunday 12th of February 2012 09:51:32 PM
 
I've only anchored out a few times, and every time it was with the Bruce, in mud. It held pretty well overnight when it was blowing about 15-20kts. No complaints on the Bruce (so far). BUT - I am sure the fact that I had about 6:1 scope out on the Bruce, on an all 5/8 chain rode helped it hold.
 
Occasionally, I will agree with Marin. I don't personally own a doorstop. I recall a Practical Sailor Anchor article, in which they concluded that a Bruce would be the easiest to set, but the first to pull out. I wouldn't trust one with my boat overnight. I sleep too well, so I need to know my anchor won't be calling for attention in the night.
 
koliver wrote:
Occasionally, I will agree with Marin.
******** Occasionally? Occasionally?* Hell, I agree with him 95% of the time! He obviously is well read, well traveled and does a lot of research and admits when he doesn't know much about a particular subject. Do you realize how much time this saves me?
biggrin.gif
 
I don't think the original poster intended this to turn into a Bruce vs. reliable anchors discussion :)-)) But somebody back aways mentioned a smart idea and that's to read Earl Hinz's excellent book, The Complete Book of Anchoring and Mooring. *Regardless of what anchor one decides to use, this book is well worth reading particularly for people new to cruising or anchoring, both of which my wife and I were when we bought the book.

I know there iaer some participants in this forum who don't believe that second-hand knowledge, be it from a book or learing it from experienced "others," counts as knowing something, but since I don't agree with that, I will heartily recommend Mr. Hinz's book.

The book is on the boat so I can't say if it covers the carriage of dual anchors on a pulpit, or if he has any suggestions as to which kinds can compliment each other.

If Eric Henning weren't in transition somewhere between SE Alaska and here I'm sure he would howl with protest at the notion of doubling the weight in the bow by adding a second anchor up there. *Depending on the boat, I would be more likely to agree with him than not. *But if one is going to be cruising in waters with a wide and radical variety of bottoms--- soft, oozy mud over here and coral over there, for example--- two bow anchors could make a lot of sense. *Or if setting tandem anchors is a frequently required technique.

So a question for the OP Janis--- do boaters in your area typically have to use tandem anchors?
 
Speaking for the Queensland coast and bays, no, we don't. I never have, and doubt I ever will, because unless you were planning to try and ride out a cyclone (hurricane in the NH), there is no point. I suspect Benn, from a bit further North would largely agree, but he says he does occasionally, because he goes to some more exposed places. Janis is down in the lakes district, so I suspect like around here, would not, but he will probably come in and answer that when he sees these posts.
However, to address Marin's query below...sorry Marin, but you did ask....


"But if one is going to be cruising in waters with a wide and radical variety of bottoms--- soft, oozy mud over here and coral over there, for example--- two bow anchors could make a lot of sense. Or if setting tandem anchors is a frequently required technique?"

The answer here is that you can have an anchor effective in all those substrates, and it's called a Sand And Rock Combination Anchor, = SARCA, and even one called a ROCNA might do it...

and I'm wiling to bet, now Benn has one, he will never need to set a tandem anchor again either - -unless he wants to ride out a cyclone, that is - maybe not even then...?

Actually this should probably be moved to the Anchoring Board, or Eric might miss it.* Eric, where are you...?
 
The answer here is that you can have an anchor effective in all those substrates, and it's called a Sand And Rock Combination Anchor, = SARCA,

Advertising BS , no reality. " The check is in the mail" Yea right.
 
Back
Top Bottom