Boat handling opinions (on me...not the boat!)

[mncruiser]

Going to outfit and shakedown cruise a new to us 2001 Mainship 390.

2001 Mainship 390
- Single Yanmar 300
- Bow thruster
- Articulated rudder
- Lots of fenders (Ha!)

I'm coming from a 2006 Monterey 302 cruiser that had twin Bravo III's. I was an excellent pilot of that boat. My home slip was in what my marina neighbors called "the impossible spot", but with practice it was easy for me. I know this boat will be much different.

I have some fixit projects to do, but will be taking the boat out where it is now locally for 2-3 days (protected lake/bay on Lake MI) before a voyage from Michigan to Wisconsin. I do have a delivery captain for that drive home. He's a teacher too.

Anyway, what do you all think my biggest challenges will be?

I've watched a lot of videos on all this stuff, but I'm a hands-on learner. Also, most of these videos are people aiming the camera at their head and talking too much. Once I'm not a fool, maybe I'll make some non-sucky videos on back and fill and all the other techniques. Can you imagine a video showing the boat, rudder position, throttle and shifter...and not some guy's head with his Yanni music playing in the background? I can!!

I'm looking for areas to really think about, and maybe problems you had coming into a similar boat. Things you wish someone had told you.

Thanks!

MN

 

[Gdavid]

I have not run a 390 with an articulating rudder but I have run run one in the stock single screw configuration. You will be fine after getting used to it. In my experience it responds better to rudder input with a little throttle, better to use the thruster early rather than leaving it as a safety net, this way you are using smaller shorter blasts that keep you on track rather than needed to really run it longer to recover. It is a beamy boat and may take some time becoming comfortable with your sight lines. From the lower helm, it is easy to sight down the starboard side but harder to judge the port quarter. A spotter helps and have them speak in terms of distance rather than directing you what to do. I prefer the upper helm when transiting a marina so you can see traffic earlier but I prefer backing in from the lower station. Stay patient and build your experience on calm days in order to build up to tougher conditions.

 

[OldDan1943]

The key is to learn to back it straight, ideally without fighting the rudder.
Find an open space, shift your rudder 30 degrees port, shift to reverse (idle) and watch the action of your boat. Dont touch your rudder.
Now, shift your rudder 30 degrees stbd, shift to reverse (idle) and watch the action of your boat. Dont touch your rudder.

You can increase the action of the stern/bow of the boat by carefully adjusting the throttle.

I recall seeing a couple of videos on youtube of fishing boat docking rodeos. Was funny because they were climbing up the power levels. They all successfully dock, some more gracefully than others. I guess they had planned to rebuild their transmissions soon. SMIRK

It is my understanding, the object of an articulating rudder is to get a better grip when backing down.

 

[rslifkin]

In general, when getting into bigger boats, there are a few keys: use the boat's momentum to help you. Your inputs are to adjust that momentum, not to force the boat to go somewhere right now. Trying too hard to get the boat to do what you want right away ends up making things harder.

On top of that, prop walk is your friend. Take some time to figure out how it walks. And in general, putting it in reverse while moving forward will show stronger prop walk than you'll see while moving backwards.

You'll have to experiment to see how much rudder authority you have in reverse. While backing, you can always give a quick burst of idle forward and some rudder to adjust the stern position or your course, then return to reverse. Done correctly, you won't stop the boat.

 

[trawlercap]

I drove a single engine, no thrusters, 123’ in Bering Sea all seasons, for 30 years. How I backed up:start back, strait rudder, see which way you want to go, use prop wash and rudder to direct the stern (burst of forward) while keeping her moving aft. I never steered in reverse. I watched plenty of people try to steer in reverse, it takes time and can be frustrating.

 

[rslifkin]

I watched plenty of people try to steer in reverse, it takes time and can be frustrating.

It's one of those "it depends" cases. Some hull shape and rudder combos will steer in reverse once you're moving well enough, for others it's just a waste of time to try.

 

[Guilhem]

The videos of this guy: https://www.youtube.com/user/JeffMerrillYachts/videos are not showing his face too much and I found the drone views to be helpful.

 

[koliver]

Lots of backing vignettes.

Most important concept, is to understand that your rudder is made to work properly only when you are in motion, in a forward direction. Unless you are drifting, Prop Wash will factor into its performance. If it is articulating, less rudder angle will accomplish a turn, in forward motion.
In reverse, rudder angle is mostly irrelevant, so it should be positioned for that occasional straightening burst of forward (prop wash) power.

At low speed in reverse, Prop Walk will be a big factor. Learn which way it draws the stern of your boat and make it your friend.

If you have a long passage to back down, enough speed to allow the backwards steering of the rudder is required. That may be a higher speed than you have ever used in reverse, but with practice, at speed, you can actually steer in reverse.

With twins, all of the same things work the same, just separately for each propeller/ rudder combination, making steering so much easier.

 

[MYTraveler]

I bet you will adapt easily. The biggest surprise may be that even if you are going 0.5 knots, you don't want to bump the dock to come to a stop, force being proportionate to mass and all. Ideally, you will get the boat very close then use dock lines for the last few inches.

 

[mvweebles]

You'll be fine with thruster and articulated rudder. You may be surprised how 'sticky' to the water your new boat is compared to your old one.

One close-quarter handling tip on singles: When you need to move the stern one side or the other and do not want to build any forward momentum (say....when lining up to a slip or a side-tie), put the helm hard-over before you put it in gear. Practice 'burping' the gear for 2-3 seconds of thrust, then return to neutral to let her glide.

Congrats - you own a nice boat.

Peter

 

[OldDan1943]

one thing to add.
neutral is a gear, use it to see what is happening.

 

[firehoser75]

The best advice I can give is to practise to "get the feel' for YOUR boat. Some boats respond to rudder when "coasting" (neutral) at relatively slow speeds, but most trawlers require prop wash for the rudder to be effective. How much or how little throttle is needed is something you need to learn by doing.
I suggest starting out with as little throttle (idle) as possible. Use neutral as your friend. Most boats stop prop walk once put into neutral, so only use reverse to "get way on" then go to neutral. You can control your reverse course with either the bow thruster or short bursts of forward to move the stern back on course as others have said. I suggest learning the "non bow thruster" method as your go to method. Always remember position the rudder BEFORE applying thrust (in forward), and that the rudder will probably not do much if anything in reverse (unless backing quite fast). If you need to move the stern a fair amount, then a quick use of "higher" throttle will cause the stern to "jump" sideways with very little gain in forward movement (assuming you are coasting at low speed). This can be a useful technique if trying to back and fill in a wind or current.
Your Captain should offer some good advise and lessons while moving your boat. Good luck.

 

[rslifkin]

To add to the "getting the feel for the boat" thing, don't just get a feel for what it can do. Get a feel for what you can't make it do readily. That way you can plan to avoid needing to do those things.

 

[BruceK]

There are plenty of things you can learn and do, with predictable results, most of the time. Sometimes wind, current, tide, etc, will get in the way.
Although you did very well with your previous boat in a difficult slip, you may still benefit from your Captain/teacher spending docking/handling time with you. You can learn which maneuver to select,and how to link them together.
You have skills and self learning techniques, if you only speed up the learning upskill process, it will be worth it.

 

[jleonard]

Study the single engine handling section in Chapman's. Then practice what it shows.

 

[Ski in NC]

Because my creek is narrow, I have to back out about 200yds before I can spin it around. Single engine with thruster. To back straight, I center rudder and steer with the thruster. Piece of cake.

Now I did operate the boat in the same place for three years with no thruster. Learned pretty fast the "back and fill" technique.

It comes down to practice. Once you learn your boat, you will find you can do some amazing maneuvers.

You will also learn how to assess a docking situation. And some of those will be "no go" situations. Then you find some alternate situation to kill time until conditions improve.

 

[OldDan1943]

Study the single engine handling section in Chapman's. Then practice what it shows.

Or better yet, take their short course and tell them, you want to learn boat handling, single engine. Once you learn to back straight and some 'close order drill' you can consider it a start. You will learn many other things too.

 

[Pete Meisinger]

You will adapt after about 5 practices, the bow thruster makes it easy.

pete

 

[timb]

Now I did operate the boat in the same place for three years with no thruster. Learned pretty fast the "back and fill" technique.

It comes down to practice. Once you learn your boat, you will find you can do some amazing maneuvers.

You will also learn how to assess a docking situation. And some of those will be "no go" situations. Then you find some alternate situation to kill time until conditions improve.

I understand the no go.

I have to tell my crew(friends) that are wasting time before we leave the slip we have to be there by slack tide . and if we are not under way by xxx time then we are not going(there). mostly this is going to Beaufort docks (current and expensive boats to hit) . and if the wind is to high we will just have to wait. going back my slip I can usually get it docked with a few aborted runs .

my slip I have for a few months now is somewhat challenging I'm worried about the dead end .there is only one slip past mine. a thruster would be great .

 

[OldDan1943]

I have the ideal set up, a bow thruster and stern thruster.
I am having a remote for both thruster installed plus anchor up and down.
Line handling can be successful with a lot of grunts and 'old man noises'. I have to remove the water hoses and the shore power cord which take time to do in an orderly fashion.
I am about 5 bridges from the cut, Haul Over, I can clear them all without an opening. If the weather is rough I can go down to the Miami Cut. All those videos you see on Haul Over..... I have not experienced such weather and waves. Once outside the bridge, increase speed but remember, the 'spoils' area extend out a ways. When leaving, remember the delta.... I always pass the cut so I can see the incoming traffic.
"They" say the Stuart Cut is dangerous..... I have been in and out a few times w/o a problem. Watch and learn the waves and period.
The dangerous part is remembering all the floating navigational aids are anchored by chain. Dont get too close.

Alas, I have no place to go.

 

[jleonard]

Or better yet, take their short course and tell them, you want to learn boat handling, single engine. Once you learn to back straight and some 'close order drill' you can consider it a start. You will learn many other things too.

Never had a single screw boat that would back straight.
Close, but never straight.
And I used that to my advantage.

 

[OldDan1943]

Never had a single screw boat that would back straight.
Close, but never straight.
And I used that to my advantage.

Find some open space..... swing the rudder to around 30 degrees to port. Leave it in idle, dont touch the rudder .... watch the stern a bow..... You might be surprised.
If the stern swings to the left, you are not idling or edge the rudder to starboard just a little bit. Of course every thing is complicated by the wind and current. Practice.....

 

[Seevee]

I can comment, in a very similar situation. Coming from a 29 IO twin to a single Mainship 40.


Absolutely FIRST, get an expert for the initial training. It's hard to learn first time if one has no clue on what to do, how much or when. Good training wil save you MANY hours of experimenting, frustration and scrapes.



In calm winds and current, it's pretty easy, as you can go super slow and just take time. The advise of "go slow" usually works, but add some wind a current and you'll have to be a bit more aggressive at times.


My biggest lesson was to learn what happens when you get the boat sideways to wind/current. Absolutely minimize that and be aggressive to avoid it when possible.


And, yes, you can steer in reverse, and bet with that big rudder it will be easy. But need to go slow and use neutral and coast works pretty good. And the bow thruster to help is an option. However, overall, I don't believe the Mainship is a good backup boat. If the wind starts taking the bow, you have to be aggressive to bring it back.


Here's a simple back and fill, little wind....yours will do better. You can significantly shorten the radius if needed.

There will be some challenging times... I believe the most challenging is backing into a slip with a cross wind/current.



Overall, a very capable boat.

 

[rslifkin]

I definitely agree with a few of Seavee's points. The big rule is "as slow as possible but as fast as necessary". There's a point where too slow makes things harder in wind, etc. But going too fast also makes things harder.

And yes, particularly with a bow shape that gets caught by the wind badly, backing into a slip with a crosswind is often one of the hardest cases. The other worst case is getting off a face dock with the wind pinning you onto it. A bow thruster helps quite a lot in either situation (and they're the only 2 times I occasionally wish for one on my own boat).

 

[Gdavid]

Examine your rub rails for screw heads sticking out, both along the gunnel and around the swim platform. You any are sticking out or misshaped, this is a good time to replace them and make sure that every screw head is flush. As long as you have wood pilings in good shape, without old bolts, splinters or barnacles covering them, you can use them to guide or pivot the boat as you work you way into our out of the slip. You don't want to hit a piling but if you approach and gently rest up against it first, you can then apply power and pivot around it as long as your rub rails are not going to snag it.

I prefer to back into most slips and it is easier to go in at an angle and then straighten up as you go rather than trying to line up perfectly and get the boat in the slip before the wind or current catches you. When there is wind or current, leave the bow angled into which ever is stronger, get the upwind or up current quarter of your boat started into the slip and then back the boat into the slip at a pace that matches the wind or current swinging you into alignment with the slip, with a thruster you can check the speed of your rotation easily and once the stern is inside of the first set of pilings, you have the boat under control and can adjustments without feeling rushed. If things aren't going right, you simply pull forward, head for some open area and regroup, by being at an angle already, it is that much easier to abort and head down the fairway.

 

[OldDan1943]

If the wind is "not good", a bow/stern thrusters may not be the cure. This is when spring lines are needed.
Both my thrusters are supported by 3x4D batteries. We need healthy batteries and watch the house bank voltage meter.

 

[rslifkin]

I prefer to back into most slips and it is easier to go in at an angle and then straighten up as you go rather than trying to line up perfectly and get the boat in the slip before the wind or current catches you. When there is wind or current, leave the bow angled into which ever is stronger, get the upwind or up current quarter of your boat started into the slip and then back the boat into the slip at a pace that matches the wind or current swinging you into alignment with the slip, with a thruster you can check the speed of your rotation easily and once the stern is inside of the first set of pilings, you have the boat under control and can adjustments without feeling rushed. If things aren't going right, you simply pull forward, head for some open area and regroup, by being at an angle already, it is that much easier to abort and head down the fairway.

I absolutely agree with that technique. Whenever there's enough width to do it, I prefer to back in in a turn. If needed, bow into the wind / current. Otherwise, just run the corner of the swim platform along the dock (without touching) and pivot the bow to the dock. It's much easier to correct for wind / current in a turn compared to backing in straight. Plus, it fits better with the "use the boat's momentum" idea, as you can smoothly go from approaching to turning to backing (rather than approach, stop, turn, stop, back as distinct motions).

 

[mncruiser]

Thank you all for the replies!

I will let you know how it goes next week. Excited and a bit nervous.

Thanks!

 

[sunchaser]

Some years ago we chartered a Nordic Tug single with no thruster. The check out Captain was a bit nervous and his instructions bass ackwards. I suggested an understanding of prop walk for that vessel and goose and fill should work. It did and he was most appreciative of learning from another Chapman's book (thanks Jay) disciple.

 

[Solly]

With all of us the biggest stress is docking. Best thing I ever learned was to go slow. Bump it in and out of gear, and see what the boat is doing. How it reacts. Don't build up momentum until lined up. Back to neutral when the boat just starts to move. The boat will keep moving. Use the thruster to steer the front and line up the stern.
We all would like to back in a slip in one easy continuous motion. Ha ! More like back and fill, see what's happening. more maneuvering, Some cussing and then success.