Been out of it (boating) for a little bit, but getting back in this summer. Trying to

[mvweebles]

MVW, you have a lot more time with the older Furono gear when you were delivering Nordhavns up and down the coast than I do with the gear as a recreational boater. I believe you mentioned earlier you have Simrad now? I used it for 3 years on a prior boat (express cruiser), and overall was not impressed with some of the features including their Marpa, which basically didn’t work. Another TF member on here has written about it. It may be resolved now, I have lost track. I still think all of the modern systems out there are fairly comparable and appreciate why some people chose one brand over another. Bottom line for me, the hard core cruisers (people who travel much farther than me) and commercial fisherman use them, newer generation systems as well, which was a key reason I chose it. Lastly, the old salts I worked for as a kid on fishing boats all had Furono, so I knew if I ever got to the point where I could pick the system, that would be the one.

I really can't disagree with anything you've said. I haven't used the Simrad system much as my boat is still undergoing a refit. I have used the same system on a friend's boat, but I really learn the system on long passages where boredom forces you to read the manual and futz/learn features. One feature that is important to me is ability to customize range rings on radar - in my quick search, I was not able to locate that on the Simrad so either I gave up too soon, or they assume whatever the factory default is works for everyone (personal preference, for trawler speeds, I like running at 6-mile range, offset about 2-miles giving about 8-9 miles in front, with 1-mile rings). It sounds like a minor thing, but over the years, you get used to driving a boat in a certain way. I'll be disappointed if I can't get it figured out, but that's about 6-months away).

I haven't gotten to MARPA yet, but wonder if AIS obviates that? I always found MARPA/ARPA only partially useful as the swing of the boat seemed to change the readout. It was nice to tag something just to see if it was moving at all, but data was pretty coarse information. Still, it's a feature that's been around forever and should work - I agree that if it should not be a gap on any modern system and would make me wonder what else is missing/incomplete/incorrect.

I mentioned TheHullTruth.com. I had a great conversation with Thataway (I knew him from the old PUP/T&T forums) who also strongly urged me to Furuno. He's also on this forum, though rarely posts. When he does, I listen. I've never met him in person but he's the real deal. Still, I decided to go the Simrad route.

Anyone who hangs around boats has heard the selection criteria of Furuno because all the fisherman use it, and who would know better than they do? I'm barely old enough to remember when Raymarine was Raytheon, and it was a Ford vs Chevy discussion between them and Furuno.

For a large, expensive installation with a fair amount of real estate available, I'd go with Furuno. But on a smallish 36-footer, and some semblance of a budget (barely), I decided a more a compact system. I had a hard time detecting functional differences between the various systems - Garmin, Raymarine, Furuno, and Simrad. It's a much more competitive market than 15-years ago when I went into my boat-coma.

And I do believe it's much more about software now than hardware. Granted my buddy's boat is only a single data point (correction - it is the newer TZ Touch system, not the older NavNet2), but it was really instructive to me. The tech working on it was pretty sharp and struggled with some of the deep configuration items. Granted, it's a 4-year old $2m yacht with $200k of electronic gizmo's so way beyond what I would allow in my life, but it should not have been as hard as it was. It was really difficult to get the Furuno system to not usurp concurrent networks on the boat. Now, one of my rules in my refit/equip is to reduce/eliminate IP Addresses, but most folks seem okay with it as long as they can run their boat off their iPhone. If that's your goal, you better chose your equipment wisely - I doubt its a selection criteria for commercial fishermen. Given the range/depth of the Navico product lines (Simrad, Lowrance, B&G), I felt they probably had better R&D and software development than Furuno, but that's just a hunch based on what I saw.

In the end (and at the end of a very long post - sorry), I just decided electronics had advanced a quantum leap from where I left them 15-years ago. All the systems are pretty good, and the base package seemed to suit my needs fine. I love the look of a 4-foot open array, and I might miss not having one when I'm trying to weave through squalls in the tropics. But the base systems are fine. And they are roughly disposable - I just didn't want to spend a ton of money on something that I would swap-out in 8-10 years for the next generation of electronics.

Apologies for the long post but since it's roughly what the OP asked, I thought I would pause for a longer answer. Just how I arrived at my decision.

Peter

 

[Fletcher500]

I keep the ARPA function on Auto, and it does a fairly good job of locking on to targets and displaying their vector. Especially open ocean when there is less interferance. If it doesn't auto lock, I can manually push on the target to get it. Potential intersecting targets are painted red as shown on the screen shot. Its also fairly good at not putting a vector on a stationary object such as another boat or bouy.

I also like AIS, but unfortunately the majority of other boaters don't have it.

 

[mvweebles]

I keep the ARPA function on Auto, and it does a fairly good job of locking on to targets and displaying their vector. Especially open ocean when there is less interferance. If it doesn't auto lock, I can manually push on the target to get it. Potential intersecting targets are painted red as shown on the screen shot. Its also fairly good at not putting a vector on a stationary object such as another boat or bouy.

I also like AIS, but unfortunately the majority of other boaters don't have it.

Thanks! I didn't know auto-lock existed. Maybe it did and I just never used it. Brain cramp on AIS - of course most recreational boats don't have it.

If Simrad's version doesn't work reasonably well, I agree that it alone is a reason not to buy it. That is a base feature that all recreational radar should have today. I'll have to borrow my buddy's boat and play with it. I'm in St Pete Florida these days. Radar use is pretty rare around here. I even met a full-time delivery skipper last year who has been at it for 15-years for Horizon. He rarely uses it (!!!). Toto, I'm not in Kansas anymore....

 

[Fletcher500]

To clarify, I am not sure if the Marpa issues on Simrad are still there. My useage was several years ago, and last I heard they were working on improving it. As you noted, the hard core fisherman on Hull Truth have all the latest electronic gadgets on their center consoles and most of them know their systems well so that could be a good place to search, and ask.

 

[mvweebles]

To clarify, I am not sure if the Marpa issues on Simrad are still there. My useage was several years ago, and last I heard they were working on improving it. As you noted, the hard core fisherman on Hull Truth have all the latest electronic gadgets on their center consoles and most of them know their systems well so that could be a good place to search, and ask.

I did just that. I see twisted tree posted a chilling experience from a few years ago. Looks like Simrad fixed the issue in late 2017. I may need an external heading sensor to make it all work correctly. Will cross that bridge when I get there.

The wonders of boat ownership.

Thanks - good exchange. If I were the OP (which I was a while back, though missed the MARPA connection), I'd find it useful.

Peter

 

[Fletcher500]

Agree, fun to talk about this stuff.

I think a good heading sensor is key as you noted. I have a PG700, but the primary is an SC30 sat compass, and the ARPA and some other functions seem a bit sharper when I am on that one. The SC30 is probably overkill for a coastal cruiser, and its big, but I run the boat at night a lot so we made the investment. + and -.

 

[Codger2]

As a bonus, using the Raymarine Control App on my iPad I can duplicate the screen of either the upper or lower helm to add another fully functional control screen so it allows me to have two screens at each helm even though there is only one MFD at each.
I've become a big Raymarine fan!

As I've previously posted, I am also a "big Raymarine fan." I use an old iPad in the salon that feeds me everything I can view on the flybridge MFD. (I also can pipe the bridge view to my smart TV. (Fantastic!)

When I bought my eS MFDs, Axiom was not out yet. A close comparison of Lighthouse II vs Lighthouse III isn't improved enough to get me to switch. Axiom Pro, however, would be my choice if I were buying a new system. The Axiom pro MFD is much more robust than my eS MFDs and processes the info much faster.

 

[BandB]

As posted above, I'm a Furuno fan, although I'm not going to say any of the brands are bad. I've used Garmin and trained on Raymarine. However, I do hear people here and elsewhere say they don't want Furuno because they don't want to read the whole manual. I don't understand that. Any system I get I'm going to read the entire manual and encourage others to do so. All the systems have some seldom used features which, in the right circumstances, can be incredibly useful. All the systems today have such a myriad of adjustments and tuning. There is not a page of the manuals that doesn't have some information that may be of value and I'm not believing anyone here doesn't have occasion they're sitting around doing nothing and could read. Just knowing the ability exists so you'll go to the manual and search for it when the need arises is worthwhile.

 

[syjos]

As posted above, I'm a Furuno fan, although I'm not going to say any of the brands are bad. I've used Garmin and trained on Raymarine. However, I do hear people here and elsewhere say they don't want Furuno because they don't want to read the whole manual. I don't understand that. Any system I get I'm going to read the entire manual and encourage others to do so. All the systems have some seldom used features which, in the right circumstances, can be incredibly useful. All the systems today have such a myriad of adjustments and tuning. There is not a page of the manuals that doesn't have some information that may be of value and I'm not believing anyone here doesn't have occasion they're sitting around doing nothing and could read. Just knowing the ability exists so you'll go to the manual and search for it when the need arises is worthwhile.

I agree. Everyone should read the whole manual on any device, electronic or not.

When I sold electronics and other marine products, clients would call with questions about the product that the answer was in the manual. Frustrating as hell.

 

[Portage_Bay]

I have a love / hate relationship with Furuno. If I want reliable gear that will just work for years I want nothing but Furuno. 10 yrs or more working hard hundreds of days a year and it keeps going. But the menus and user interface are enough to drive me to drink.

 

[oscar]

(I also can pipe the bridge view to my smart TV. (Fantastic!)

Good for anchor watch in bed.....

I assume you're running a WIFI network on the boat to accomplish that which means the Nav system is WIFI enabled?

Does that also mean chart/firmware updates are done via WIFI and USB cables/SD cards are a thing of the past?

 

[Mark Laurnen]

Hello Oscar. I hope that you have reviewed Boathealer’s post adjacent to yours. I was in your situation a year ago and choose Furuno for an entire new suite. TZT, TZT2, VHF, NXT Radar, DDF sounder. I think Furuno maybe a little bit more difficult, but I also hear that they are much easier than they used to be. Actually, I think all of these systems are capable of so much more than me and all would present a formidable challenge to my tech ability. I am very pleased. I have had nine Garmin products over the years, they are great ... WHEN THEY WORK! Three failed early on and customer service was abysmal ... I chucked them when the cost of diagnosis alone was a third of the purchase price. NEVER again. Furuno has been around a long time, supports all old platforms, and is the predominant commercial and government supplier. I think each of these different lines have their strong points and you will do well with almost any of them.

 

[Codger2]

I assume you're running a WIFI network on the boat to accomplish that which means the Nav system is WIFI enabled?

Correct! Updates are downloaded directly to the MFDs by using the hot spot on my iPhone. Everything I can see on the MFD is piped from the HDMI port on the back of the MFD to the salon smart TV. As far as anchor watch goes, I could do the same thing but I don't. Data, cartography, cameras, fuel management, SOC, depth sounder, etc, all can be seen below in the salon on a 43" Samsung.