North West Passage

[David Ess]

You clearly do not understand how things are and work.

You clearly have watched too many movies and believe they portray

the ability of a speargun out of water.. they dont




And I was being serious.




You can watch videos of guys spear gunning on land. A recent one showed the projectile fly right thru a block of ballistic gel. But sure I also saw one guy who did it wrong and he got hurt. You need the right sort of speargun, and have some practice. Thats how it 'works'with all weapons.

 

[Nomad Willy]

In a book titled “Rowing to Latitude” a woman, perhaps Canadian, bought a very large three hole (cockpit) kayak. Usually paddled from the bow and stern cockpits the center cockpit was huge. Great for tripping has one can get a lot of gear in the center cockpit and under deck fore and aft. It was a Necky kayak for those that know kayaks.

She converted the kayak to a rowboat putting outrigger row locks far enough outboard for serious rowing from the center cockpit. She “tricked out” her new rowboat while using it over time.

She then started rowing adventures around the world. I don’t remember the location of most of her trips. Norway was one. She got married and they went forth “rowing to latitude”. I remember mostly their trip to or through the NWP. They rowed from some point between Seattle and Bristol Bay north perhaps terminating the trip at univik

Along the way (probably between Point Hope and Barrow) they encountered polar bears. I’ve been in the company of wild bears many times and mostly bears go about their own business frequently not even acknowledging that they knew of a human nearby.
But the Polar bears this couple encountered were either very angry, hungry or both. I was amazed at how determined these bears were to kill and probably eat these two people. I’ve been in SW Alaska and observed bears but they were nothing like the Polar bears in the book.

So relatively speaking I would never go ashore there and chance an encounter w these bears. Perhaps Murray can help me out w the details as he probably has the book. I can’t find my copy. And for all it’s a good read and assemblage of coastal adventures.

 

[psneeld]

As far as the Canadians not knowing you are going through.... unless you can do it with no RADAR or satellite signature chances of that are slim.


Listening to the average dock or bar talk is often laughable in my experience.



If you really read all the agreements with Canada after 911, there might be some stuff going on that's not too public.


True little fish may not be worrying about, but you know who has to help if you defied the Canadians and you need help up there...which more than one even big ship has needed in all the transits through there.


As far as flares and spear guns....you better hope they scare the bears off (which they might) but as far as stopping them and/or pissing them off.... no and yes. Yes I have real world experience with Alaskan wildlife officers carring large bore rifles while flying with me, laughing at our USCG issued shotguns for polar bear protection.

 

[David Ess]

In a book titled “Rowing to Latitude” a woman, perhaps Canadian, bought a very large three hole (cockpit) kayak. Usually paddled from the bow and stern cockpits the center cockpit was huge. Great for tripping has one can get a lot of gear in the center cockpit and under deck fore and aft. It was a Necky kayak for those that know kayaks.

She converted the kayak to a rowboat putting outrigger row locks far enough outboard for serious rowing. She “tricked out” her new rowboat while using it over time.

She then started rowing adventures around the world. I don’t remember the location of most of her trips. Norway was one. She got married and they went forth “rowing to latitude”. I remember mostly their trip to or through the NWP. They rowed from some point between Seattle and Bristol Bay north perhaps terminating the trip at univik

Along the way (probably between Point Hope and Barrow) they encountered polar bears. I’ve been in the company of wild bears many times and mostly bears go about their own business frequently not even acknowledging that they knew of a human nearby.
But the Polar bears this couple encountered were either very angry, hungry or both. I was amazed at how determined these bears were to kill and probably eat these two people. I’ve been in SW Alaska and observed bears but they were nothing like the Polar bears in the book.

So relatively speaking I would never go ashore there and chance an encounter w these bears. Perhaps Murray can help me out w the details as he probably has the book. I can’t find my copy of the book. And for all it’s a good read and assemblage of coastal adventures.

Thanks, great anecdote. We wouldnt even have gone ashore at all. Some here were worried about a polar bear boarding a 65 aluminum boat, one with ballist, blast and physical rated windows(and vault like waterproof doors). How would you think the bear would handle that scenario?

 

[Nomad Willy]

I dono David.
But these bears can weigh 1500lbs and stand 11’ tall. They mostly eat seals and they are in short supply now from all reports.
They deal w Polar bears in a park in Hudson Bay in eastern Canada and they go to great lengths to keep the bears and the people separate.

 

[David Ess]

I dono David.
But these bears can weigh 1500lbs and stand 11’ tall. They mostly eat seals and they are in short supply now from all reports.
They deal w Polar bears in a park in Hudson Bay in eastern Canada and they go to great lengths to keep the bears and the people separate.

It would be a good experiment to try out, to see if they could get thru the vault -like watertight door with its porthole that is ballistic, blast and physical rated. Especially with guys inside shooting at it, even with non-firearm weapons. My bet, we'd win.

 

[hollywood8118]

You clearly do not understand how things are and work.

You clearly have watched too many movies and believe they portray

the ability of a speargun out of water.. they dont




And I was being serious.




You can watch videos of guys spear gunning on land. A recent one showed the projectile fly right thru a block of ballistic gel. But sure I also saw one guy who did it wrong and he got hurt. You need the right sort of speargun, and have some practice. Thats how it 'works'with all weapons.

Again you show your ignorance


The skin/hide of a bear isn't ballistic gel.


I have been spearfishing for 30 years .. all over the world.
I believe at last count I personally own 8 spear guns.
You asked for people with ACTUAL first had knowledge.
You have to KILL a determined pissed off bear, neither a flare gun (worthless) or ANY spear gun will kill a 1000#+ polar bear.


How about you answer all the other members here about your ACTUAL BOATING EXPERIENCE?


HOLLYWOOD

 

[David Ess]

Has anybody seen any record of a bear breaking into a hatched water-tight dooron a metal boat? If so please submit. The reason we probably wont do this trip is NOT fear of bears....but because of hassle by snivveling burocrats. (As an aside, there IS evidence of humans killing animals, even bigger than bears, with primitive weapons).

 

[AlaskaProf]

Interesting and relevant. Peter Smith of Rocna fame went through last summer nonstop.

https://www.arctictoday.com/a-new-z...ge-despite-covid-19-restrictions-faces-fines/

Given the two "fixes" we have received, it appears he passed W-E and spent about two weeks in the Canadian waters.


“The vessel confirmed they received this direction on August 21, 2020,” Transport Canada said.
Smith exited waters of the Northwest Passage at Lancaster Sound last week, according to online information about Baffinland Iron Mines Corp. shipping, shared on Facebook by the mining company with the community of Pond Inlet.
“The vessel has been providing regular reports on its location to the Government of Canada through daily contact with Canadian Coast Guard’s Northern Canada Vessel Traffic Services Zone (NORDREG) since August 21, 2020,” Transport Canada said.

 

[David Ess]

Hollywood....since you have 8 spearguns you have to know there are various kinds, various power, and some that are safely fired on land(you might also know about that incident where an australian kid shot his speargun into the mouth of a huge white shark trying to eat him....the kid won). Scenario: youre on your boat and the huge bear is sticking its head thru the open porthole. You get to use the speargun of your choice to shoot it in the mouth, or eye. Do you think you would win, like the australian kid? Now, in real life there would be four of us, with the best spearguns we could get and train on.

 

[David Ess]

Given the two "fixes" we have received, it appears he passed W-E and spent about two weeks in the Canadian waters.


“The vessel confirmed they received this direction on August 21, 2020,” Transport Canada said.
Smith exited waters of the Northwest Passage at Lancaster Sound last week, according to online information about Baffinland Iron Mines Corp. shipping, shared on Facebook by the mining company with the community of Pond Inlet.
“The vessel has been providing regular reports on its location to the Government of Canada through daily contact with Canadian Coast Guard’s Northern Canada Vessel Traffic Services Zone (NORDREG) since August 21, 2020,” Transport Canada said.

Thanks for that....and only two weeks. Then again, they say its only a 900 miles mile transit.(onecmember thought we'd run out of diesel on a boat rated at over 5000miles!).

 

[mvweebles]

Hollywood....since you have 8 spearguns you have to know there are various kinds, various power, and some that are safely fired on land(you might also know about that incident where an australian kid shot his speargun into the mouth of a huge white shark trying to eat him....the kid won). Scenario: youre on your boat and the huge bear is sticking its head thru the open porthole. You get to use the speargun of your choice to shoot it in the mouth, or eye. Do you think you would win, like the australian kid? Now, in real life there would be four of us, with the best spearguns we could get and train on.

The thread that keeps on giving

 

[David Ess]

DE,

Your posts have now become somewhat entertaining, so I cant help myself and keep tuning in for more.

I am starting to think you are one of the following:

A. Just having some fun, and playing with us under a pseudonym.

-0r-

B. An arrogant kook who cant spell.

Looking forward to your snappy comeback.

Here it is: get back to us...but only if you ever can discuss points, instead of the people making them.

 

[FlyWright]

Here it is: get back to us...but only if you ever can discuss points, instead of the people making them.

A friendly suggestion: Tone it down and show some respect for our members and stick around contributing to the discussions or...don't. The choice is yours.

 

[David Ess]

A friendly suggestion: Tone it down and show some respect for our members and stick around contributing to the discussions or...don't. The choice is yours.

How about the ad hominems against me? Should those guys "tone it down", discuss my points instead of me?

 

[RT Firefly]

Ya Mr. H. The best spear guns. You know, the nucler ones...

 

[psneeld]

You shoot a bear, you better prove self defense. People up that a ways take game/ endangered animals pretty seriously.

Shotgun slugs and pellets often don't penetrate a bears fatty layers....so make sure you take a good spear gun.

As far as killing large animals with primitive weapons, since you love links but hardly ever provide proof yourself...wonder who has that winning record, man with primitive weapons or the animals.

Instead of thinking spearmint, and you are going to be in international where and never go ashore, why not just take long guns ...you know, the proper tool for the job.

 

[rsn48]

You don't say Eskimo anymore, better to say Inuit. The Inuit never called themselves Eskimo, white man designation. And better to say Inuit if you are going to have dealings with them. I don't mean this in an arrogant better than you fashion, most of the guys on this forum don't know about proper nomenclature of Inuit. I had the good fortune to work with many Inuit teens in Whitehorse Yukon but you don't want to piss them off. In Inuit culture it is consider highly rude, and possibly a marker of insanity (I mean this literally) if you get very angry with them or treat them badly. They won't get angry with you. Often when an Inuit teens gets angry, the disappear for 30 - 60 minutes to get it under control, then come back and join the group. But word about you will spread, you are one of those, and you will become a social pariah. The Inuit are so good at hiding there emotions you won't even know what they think about you.

Also you can google "Don't Call Me Eskimo" an Inuit teen rap from the Canadian high north. With Inuit in the high north, places like Whitehorse, Yellowknife, Anchorage are considered south. I didn't link the video as the sound isn't that great.

There are a few articles in past Pacific Yachting of PNW journey's.

This is an article from 2008, so probably things have changed, but in article I've read no mention of numerous permits required was mentioned.

With the North West Passage becoming more and more accessible to vessels of all kinds, there are sure to be adventurous cruising sailors undertaking the journey more frequently in the future.

However, you will have to register with the Canadian Coast Guard in order to obtain permission, which, until an announcement by the Canadian Prime Minister Steven Harper this week, was optional.

In making this announcement, Prime Minister Steven Harper has moved to firm up Canadian control of Arctic waters.

Speaking in Tuktoyaktuk, on the western gate of the Northwest Passage, Harper says all ships sailing into Arctic waters that Canada claims for its own will be required to register with the Canadian Coast Guard.

Making this registration mandatory has long been recommended by Arctic experts.

Canadian Coast Guard ice-breaker patrolling the North West Passage summer 2008 © SW
Canadian Coast Guard ice-breaker patrolling the North West Passage summer 2008 © SW
It was not immediately clear how that requirement will be enforced, since Canada is still developing its northern surveillance system.

Harper also announced that environmental legislation protecting Arctic waters will be extended to 370 kilometres from the coastline.

Arctic sovereignty is expected to become a major issue during an anticipated Canadian fall election.

If you want to link to this article then please use this URL: www.sail-world.com/48296

 

[Frosty]

Indeed, I wonder how many do slip thru. In any case, we probably wont even bother.

Maybe mods can close the thread then. Or at least re-name it to reflect the actual content, e.g:

New Guy Bickers With Helpful Denizens About "North West Passage" And Tries To Get Everyone To Look Up All The Information He Needs By Challenging Them To Prove It Although He's Not Going To Bother With The Trip Anyway)

 

[David Ess]

Ya Mr. H. The best spear guns. You know, the nucler ones...

The guy with 8 spearguns didnt mention any of them being nuclear. But you could ask him. and as an expert in them, ill bet he would know the best one for shooting into a bears mouth. Its not clear what sort the aussie kid had that he used to win against the huge white shark. If he managed that, how do you think 4 prepared guys would fare?
BTW, your Mr. H. allusion, is that a 'Godwin's Law' thing? Do you know what that even is?

 

[markpierce]

Is it safe to assume Mark, that when travelling past these blue pins on your lofty Alaska cruiser balcony, you move to the opposite side of the ship?

No problem. Always got inside cabins.

 

[psneeld]

If you were serious about this trip, 2 things.

1. You would have stopped wasting your time arguing. Most TFers do once threads get to 9 pages of bickering. Except a few non informational threads.

2. Anyone serious about this trip would not have gone past one or two posts of bear issues.... as they will be one of the least dangers you will encounter and as you have said, you will be in an aluminum bunker.

 

[David Ess]

Maybe mods can close the thread then. Or at least re-name it to reflect the actual content, e.g:

New Guy Bickers With Helpful Denizens About "North West Passage" And Tries To Get Everyone To Look Up All The Information He Needs By Challenging Them To Prove It Although He's Not Going To Bother With The Trip Anyway)

Rather, we have had many important contributions, by the serious interlocutors. Some also provided hard to find links. I learned a lot , like even that the Canadian claim is bogus, their puny CG and navy might still be able to catch you. That its not 3000+ miles , but only 900, that it usually only takes 2 or 3 weeks to transit...that nobody knows if any bears have been able to penetrate airtight doors on metal boats, etc. But since we're old and loathe burocracy, piracy etc...we probably wont bother there, but other high latitude places that are freer, like Greenland, Iceland, Norway, Finland, Feroes, Svalbard, etc.

 

[Frosty]

But since we're old and loathe burocracy, piracy etc...we probably wont bother there, but other high latitude places that are freer.

Circumnavigation via the three great capes is my suggestion. Free as a bird*, no pesky locals, and it will make the best use of your high-latitude boat's strong features.

*not that I've checked recently

 

[mvweebles]

QUOTE "But since we're old and loathe burocracy, piracy etc...we probably wont bother there, but other high latitude places that are freer."

Freer than the Canadian and Alaskan arctic? Maybe try Russia. That should work out well.

 

[David Ess]

If you were serious about this trip, 2 things.

1. You would have stopped wasting your time arguing. Most TFers do once threads get to 9 pages of bickering. Except a few non informational threads.

2. Anyone serious about this trip would not have gone past one or two posts of bear issues.... as they will be one of the least dangers you will encounter and as you have said, you will be in an aluminum bunker.

Thanks for corroborating that we neednt be too afraid of polar bears. We werent before, but this thread confirmed its not a big issue. And I learned lots of other things about that transit. But that guy who said the bear would manage to eat us is certainly wrong.

 

[David Ess]

Circumnavigation via the three great capes is my suggestion. Free as a bird*, no pesky locals, and it will make the best use of your high-latitude boat's strong features.

*not that I've checked recently

Certainly Cape Horn, cape of good hope.

 

[Benthic2]

If you don't plan on going ashore in Canada, Prudhoe Bay, Alaska to Bar Harbor, Maine is 3200 miles AS THE CROW FLIES.

 

[psneeld]

They still could, but they aren't nearly as dangerous as most trip issues.

In case you decide to go south instead...

https://iaato.org/visiting-antarctica/information-for-yachts/

At the 35th Antarctic Treaty Consultative Meeting (Hobart, 2012), Treaty Parties adopted Resolution 10. This resolution recommends that all those intending to undertake a yacht visit to Antarctica utilize an agreed checklist of yacht-specific items for preparing safe Antarctic voyages. The Parties also recommended the use of agreed Guidelines for Antarctic Cruises. Contact details of national competent authorities and relevant Maritime Rescue Coordination Centers (MRCCs) were also made available for Antarctica-bound yachts.

 

[markpierce]

You don't say Eskimo anymore, better to say Inuit. The Inuit never called themselves Eskimo, white man designation. And better to say Inuit if you are going to have dealings with them. I don't mean this in an arrogant better than you fashion, most of the guys on this forum don't know about proper nomenclature of Inuit. I had the good fortune to work with many Inuit teens in Whitehorse Yukon but you don't want to piss them off. In Inuit culture it is consider highly rude, and possibly a marker of insanity (I mean this literally) if you get very angry with them or treat them badly. They won't get angry with you. Often when an Inuit teens gets angry, the disappear for 30 - 60 minutes to get it under control, then come back and join the group. But word about you will spread, you are one of those, and you will become a social pariah. The Inuit are so good at hiding there emotions you won't even know what they think about you. ...]

Excerpted from E. Britannica:

"The self-designations of Eskimo peoples vary with their languages and dialects. They include such names as Inuit, Inupiat, Yupik, and Alutiit, each of which is a regional variant meaning “the people” or “the real people.” The name Eskimo, which has been applied to Arctic peoples by Europeans and others since the 16th century, originated with the Innu (Montagnais), a group of Algonquian speakers; once erroneously thought to mean “eaters of raw flesh,” the name is now believed to make reference to snowshoes.

"Despite that finding, the name Eskimo—widely used in Alaska—is nevertheless considered by some to be offensive. In Canada and Greenland the name Inuit is preferred for all indigenous peoples there. However, the indigenous peoples of Alaska include the Yupik and the Aleuts, both of whom are distinct from the Inuit. Other proposed names for the inhabitants of Alaska present different problems; Alaska Natives, for example, includes Athabaskan and other unrelated Native Americans."

What's more offensive? Calling an Inuit an Eskimo, or an Aleut for an Inuit?