Potential New Build On The Horizon?

[twistedtree]

Wow, interesting to see a real time similar experience and the same issues I'm faced with today. Agree the open flatbed would be easiest from loading and unloading "but" concerned with shrink wrapping tearing open and damaging the wood work (been there / done that). With a 7'6" beam we should be OK fitting into a container "but" as others pointed out what about the trailer moving around and the boat hitting up against the container? How do we ensure the trailer is properly chocked and cannot move? I'm starting to get nervous about transporting this little gem.

Appreciate the comments and ideas so please keep them coming. thanks

John

My boat was shrink wrapped in the stuff they use to store boats and it held up fine. I think you concern with an enclosed trailer is very real. There is no practical way to tie the trailer down.


Another option is to have someone pull it on its own wheels. My trailer was used and of uncertain condition (I bought it strictly to use as a cradle/transport for shipping) so trailering on its own wheels was not a risk I was willing to take. But your trailer is new so that might actually work well.

 

[BandB]

Wow, interesting to see a real time similar experience and the same issues I'm faced with today. Agree the open flatbed would be easiest from loading and unloading "but" concerned with shrink wrapping tearing open and damaging the wood work (been there / done that). With a 7'6" beam we should be OK fitting into a container "but" as others pointed out what about the trailer moving around and the boat hitting up against the container? How do we ensure the trailer is properly chocked and cannot move? I'm starting to get nervous about transporting this little gem.

Appreciate the comments and ideas so please keep them coming. thanks

John

Things are chocked on trailers all the time. Sides can be padded. That's why I suggested household movers.

As to getting it in a container. You find a business that you can take it inside from ground level and roll it out at dock level. Most warehouses have that ability. Side to side movement is fairly easily protected against. The real fear is sudden braking and for that reason they likely would put it as far forward as possible with the trailer tongue against the front wall.

As to shrink wrapping, not my choice either. Are you intending on having a canvas cover for it's normal covering? That is preferable over shrink wrapping, in my opinion.

 

[twistedtree]

What don't you guys like about shrink wrapping?

 

[N4061]

Shrink Wrapping

What don't you guys like about shrink wrapping?

The concept is fine but when we had our 10' Gig Harbor dingy trailered down from Seattle, Washington we found areas on the wood trim where the varnish had worn down. Concern with the Sandpiper is the same, lots of oiled teak trim plus sharp edges on the mast which will likely tear during the trip allowing the shrink wrap to start slapping around potentially causing more damage. The other concern with the boat traveling on an open truck is the potential strain to the vertical board which holds the mast during transportation. From what I can see on photos its a piece of painted wood (3' x 18" wide) that fits inside a small brace and holds the mast. This is a lot of surface area when traveling 60MPH and strain on the little bracket. I'm already thinking about how to modify or replace the board with something slotted or open to reduce wind resistance.

Not totally ruling out shrink wrapping "if" we have to use an open truck but would try to take extra precautions to protect the wood. Amazing a little 15' is causing as much stress as a 40 footer. I remember when we were researching the transportation of our H38E to Texas to start the ICW journey any the biggest issue was removing the flybridge. At the time I was less concerned with that boat than I am today. Guess I'm getting older and thinking about the details a little more....

John

 

[FWT]

Builder's recommendation? You can't be the first with this issue.

 

[Porgy]

If you’re still looking at enclosed trailers or containers you might want to look at not only interior width but also door opening width which can be less. A few I’ve looked at would give you an inch or two on each side. Do you want somebody cramming your new boat in there with that little clearance, somehow strapping it down and stuffing padding in place? Ask Marshall. They must have shipped a boat further than Padanaram.

 

[N4061]

Shipping

If you’re still looking at enclosed trailers or containers you might want to look at not only interior width but also door opening width which can be less. A few I’ve looked at would give you an inch or two on each side. Do you want somebody cramming your new boat in there with that little clearance, somehow strapping it down and stuffing padding in place? Ask Marshall. They must have shipped a boat further than Padanaram.

Thought about the door opening and loss of a few inches which is an unknown at this point. As you recommended I already left this logistics issue with the builder (Geoff) and a boat transport company who has worked with him in the past. Still thinking a well chocked trailer and three cloth wrapped fenders tied down (top and bottom) on each side of the boat should work assuming we can load and unload on the truck ramps. All part of a new boat and new adventure

John T

 

[N4061]

Coast Guard Equipment

Last night I was thinking about registering the boat and trailing which then has me thinking about safety equipment. It has been a very long time since we owned a smaller boat and first time owning a sail boat so I found myself looking up this information. Living in California only adds to the cost and complexity of owning anything and this is what I discovered.

Mandatory Boater Education Requirements: owners of even a small sailboat with a motor must carry a CA Boaters Card which requires you pass a test. Since this new requirement is being "phased in over time" and age based, we are old enough not get up in this 2018 law. I guess there is an advantage to aging (ouch).

Safety Equipment for Sailboats under 16' in length: one wearable life jacket per person. That's about it unless we are planning to be on the water after dark (unlikely). Well that was easy enough.

While the above is the minimal required we do plan to add a few more items like Hand Held VHF radio, throwable floatation device, anchor, buckets (boat is not self draining), portable horn, Visual Distress Signals, (you just never know) and first aid kit. Looks like we need a bigger boat . Good thing our motor is not gas or the list would be a little longer. Fun stuff.

John T.

 

[N4061]

Motor Installation - Complete

I received a call today from Geoff advising the Torqeedo Motor mount and storage is complete! We got lucky with the motor mount and did not have to cut into the wood trim. The boat is ready to ship.
Tomorrow Geoff plans to reach out to a shipping company he used many times for larger boats and locate a container style truck. Assuming everything goes well we may see the boat during the week of Thanksgiving which I'm taking vacation. Needless to say I'm a little excited to see this boat for the first time.

I took care of the insurance today and confirmed we are covered during transportation. It was nice to see a yearly premium so low compared to the trawlers.

A few photos of the motor storage are below.

 

[N4061]

Looking Ahead

While I recognize the new boat has not even left the yard yet I find myself thinking ahead towards the "what if". The what if is of course the next boat (yes this is a sickness) which led to a phone call with James L. at PAE. The last time James and I spoke was when the N41 was getting close to being announced and he wanted to share the drawings with us. Fast forward to today and PAE has an amazing number of orders on this boat with the new 51 is off to great start. Simply perfect timing between two great models and COVID. This was the good news, the bad news is there are no plans for a smaller Motor Sailor to compliment the MS56 which is too big for us. So, unless sailing doesn't live up to my expectations it appears the next boat will not be a Nordhavn and we will be forced to look elsewhere (bummer). Always fun thinking ahead and considering the possibilities.

John T.

 

[FWT]

A N51 is more boat than I can conceive of "needing", but the voyeur in me has to ask if you know the price. A good looking set of renderings.

On another note about your gear and gizmo shopping list. Get a couple of the seat cushion life preservers with the loops. You butt, and Mary, will thank you. Cheap comfort, and a throw-able life saving device.

 

[Peter B]

Guess I'm getting older and thinking about the details a little more....
John

John, with all due respect, I think you are grossly over-thinking this whole issue. The boat is new, and will be on a new trailer, right..? Ok, if you don't want - or can't - go take a vehicle capable of towing it, and bring it home yourself, and I'm sorry, but can't remember the distance, you will need to just have it flat-bed trucked. (Checked online - says ~ 5000km = ~ 3000miles)

A company that could provide the type that can winch on a broken down car, like the car insurance people use, is all it would take. They winch disabled cars, and other much larger vehicles, on and off those flat-beds all the time without incident. They are always tied down very well, so they can't move once secured. I had a classic car trucked like that to the new owner in Sydney, all the way from North of Brisbane, about a 1500 km trip, and it only cost $600, and we didn't even need to cover the car. Arrived in perfect condition.

Whether you have it shrink-wrapped or just have the cover you'll ultimately use to cover it at home fitted securely, either option would work, but for an open boat, yes, it would be best covered. However, I suspect there would be a greater risk of a part of the cover coming loose and flapping, possibly causing some superficial abrasion damage, than shrink-wrap. Just sayin'...

 

[N4061]

N51

A N51 is more boat than I can conceive of "needing", but the voyeur in me has to ask if you know the price. A good looking set of renderings.

On another note about your gear and gizmo shopping list. Get a couple of the seat cushion life preservers with the loops. You butt, and Mary, will thank you. Cheap comfort, and a throw-able life saving device.

\


Don't quote me but I believe the new N51 is north of $1.5M Nothing is inexpensive anymore...

 

[N4061]

Overthinking (Again)

John, with all due respect, I think you are grossly over-thinking this whole issue. The boat is new, and will be on a new trailer, right..? Ok, if you don't want - or can't - go take a vehicle capable of towing it, and bring it home yourself, and I'm sorry, but can't remember the distance, you will need to just have it flat-bed trucked. (Checked online - says ~ 5000km = ~ 3000miles)

No question we are likely overthinking this one but having been down the road of shrink wrap damage to the fine wood work I'm a little stressed. I actually turned this over to Geoff (builder) to figure it out and send me the bill (ouch). With all the dang supply issues across the country and truckers in demand I know this will cost me but we don't have an alternative as this time. Thanks for the feedback, always appreciated.

John

 

[N4061]

True Cost Of Shipping

This morning I was talking with a friend in Florida who recently had his new 36 Sea Ray (2012 year model) shipped from Minnesota to Sarasota, Florida on an open flat bed at a cost near $9K (ouch). I'm starting to think the $7K I was quoted may not be that bad for a closed container truck but it is more than I thought. Back to the Sea Ray which was Shrink Wrapped prior to shipping and when the boat arrived a section of the wrapping tore open resulting in some fiberglass damage (small areas but still hurts) and the boat was filthy dirty. The owner was very upset but there was nothing he could do. Appears the shipping company will not guarantee anything associated with the shrink wrap and not even try to tape it closed or cut off the pieces that are flapping against the deck.

I will remain nervous until our little boat arrives and hopefully in piece and no damage at all....

JT

 

[Peter B]

This morning I was talking with a friend in Florida who recently had his new 36 Sea Ray (2012 year model) shipped from Minnesota to Sarasota, Florida on an open flat bed at a cost near $9K (ouch). I'm starting to think the $7K I was quoted may not be that bad for a closed container truck but it is more than I thought. Back to the Sea Ray which was Shrink Wrapped prior to shipping and when the boat arrived a section of the wrapping tore open resulting in some fiberglass damage (small areas but still hurts) and the boat was filthy dirty. The owner was very upset but there was nothing he could do. Appears the shipping company will not guarantee anything associated with the shrink wrap and not even try to tape it closed or cut off the pieces that are flapping against the deck.

I will remain nervous until our little boat arrives and hopefully in piece and no damage at all....

JT

The above sounds like amazing dereliction of duty, and certainly here would not be considered acceptable at all. He clearly chose a poor shipping company. How hard would it be to equip the driver with some duct tape and scissors for a quick touch up to any tears that might occur - which should be unusual anyway if done properly from the start.

 

[BandB]

Here are Joule's prep instructions. I'm sure your carrier will also have some.

https://www.jouleyacht.com/images/docs/JouleYachtTrasnport_BoatPrepGuide_Form301-rev2.pdf

Joule also does in dry van as well as flat bed.

 

[Peter B]

Wow, they don't take responsibility for much do they..?

 

[FWT]

John, I was struggling to explain the issues with balancing the sails to minimize rudder drag. I don't follow the folks in this link but it popped up. First part of this is about this issue.

https://youtu.be/eJ3NRhPS7h0

 

[N4061]

Final Payment But No Transportation

Since our last post we made a run to West Marine to purchase trailer hitch components and today we made the final payment on the boat and transportation costs. Finding a carrier willing to make the trip has become challenging and concerning. While my initial hope was to receive the boat by Christmas last week I was starting to think we could possible have it in time for a Thanksgiving Day cruise, but now I'm not so sure. O well its a boat and with my luck we will have rain the week the boat does arrive.

Mary continues to question my measurements and ability to fit the trailer in the garage with the three cars so if for some reason in the near future you don't see any more posts it will likely be that I was off by 1" and both the Boat and I are sleeping outside.

John T.

 

[N4061]

Moving Day

Yesterday I received confirmation from Geoff (Marshall Marine) the transport company showed up with a 30' enclosed trailer being towed behind a large pickup. Uploading the boat / trailer went well and there more tiedowns than even Geoff expected. He did have to lower the mast further than its normal trialing position but that was the only change. As long as the trailer doesn't move we should be ok (I hope). After reaching out the driver yesterday and again this morning I was starting to get a little nervous and made a few calls to the dispatcher and Geoff. Both assured me everything should be fine and they would also start to reach out to him. No sooner did I speak with Geoff I received a call from the driver who's number shows up from Hilo, Hawaii - wow my boat made it to Hawaii, that will be a long sail back home. The boat is actually in upstate NY and the driver with his partner plan to leave for San Diego tomorrow with an ETA of Tuesday. That's some serious driving if you ask me. I now have the drivers AIS and can track him all the way cross country.

Turns out they lowered the boat trailer tire pressure so I will need to purchase a small 12V compressor to ensure we can get the boat home. Also had some fun purchasing the 7-pin wiring connector for the new Honda Ridgeline. After learning from the dealer the truck only comes with a trailer breaking wire harness and not the lights I asked how much. The answer was as bad as for the floormates at $225. Ouch! I tired to tell the young man at the parts department he must be looking at the trucks wire harness and not the little connector, he assured me he was looking at the connector and would offer me a 10% discount. I ended up ordering the connector with wires from Lowes (who would have thought they carried it) for $9.95 and it arrived overnight. Yes, it fit. I'm sure we will run into a few more surprises but so far so good.

John

 

[N4061]

Transportation - Not Good

Well the boat arrived yesterday and I was able to get her into the garage without an inch to spare. I decided to park Mary's SL in the middle with the truck next to boat to help convince her we still have room. Not sure I'm winning this argument but at least her cars are away from the boat.

That was the good news, the bad news is the boat arrived damaged. Despite the trailer not moving an inch the winch strap came loose allowing the boat the bounce (must have been a big bump) causing it to land between the bow rollers and rubbed against a metal washer resulting in significant damage. About 2" down to the glass (ouch). Then I found scratches on the hull starboard side and another deep gauge on the keel. Needless to say, I'm pissed and depressed.

I called our friends at Nordhavn for assistance and they referred me to their fiberglass technician who will tackle the job but without any firm guarantee since we are working with a dark blue color. Geoff at Marshall Marine is sending out all the required materials and believes since the boat is brand new, everything should match up fine. If not, he suggested a new paint job paid by the transportation company which he is assisting me with the claim. I checked and it will cost $8K for a little 16' (east coast about $4,500). To be honest I don't think an insurance claim will move quickly and even though I'm insured I have a $2K deductible but we will see.

Despite the damage I'm very pleased with first impressions on how well-built this little boat is compared to our Gig Harbor 10' Navigator. While the Navigator weighed about 90lbs this boat is over 1,000lbs and solid in every way. Bang on the bottom of the hull and it feels and sounds solid similar to our much larger trawlers. The wood work is beautiful and excellent finish. Granted I still have a long way to go related to the sail rigging before I can totally claim success but first impressions are all positive.

Tomorrow I will move the boat (by hand) out of the garage and give it a good washing before I start my detailed inspections inside the boat. For a little boat there are many bags and boxes of stuff I need to open up and figure out what everything is. Since the sail was not installed, I plan to leave it in the bag and work on just raising the mast up and checking out the Torqueedo OB which Geoff appears to have done a good job locating and mounting all the pieces. Assuming all the repairs are completed the following weekend we plan to launch her that Monday (excuse for a vacation day) and see how she steers and moves under power. Actual sailing will need to wait a few more weeks when my friend will help teach me how to install the sail and raise it up. Mary will not go with me unless it's under power and I cannot blame her. I have a long road ahead figuring out this whole sailing thing.

Thinking back on all our new boats (about eight) this was our worst experience related to damage but its a numbers game and it caught up with us. Would I build another new again - you bet? This is just a small wave we will get over in the journey of boating.

John

 

[N4061]

Damage Repair

It's been an interesting week dealing with the insurance companies and finding a good repair person. I filed a claim with the shipper's insurance company who advised there is a $1K deductible which I need to collect directly. I know this will never occur so I'm down at least $1K. My deductible with Boat US is $2.5K and while I notified them, I have not filed a claim since I don't want to see a premium increase. Total estimate is $3K and counting.

This morning I dropped off the boat at the yard in Oceanside, CA. Turns out they have a 20-year experienced fiberglass technician with excellent reviews. I looked at a couple of projects he has in work and does good work. Geoff (Marshall Marine) provided fresh paint for the gel coat and bottom coat. He also believes a good technician should be able to perform the repairs with "like new" results. We will see. Our original plan to use the technician from Nordhavn did not work out since the boat needs to be off the trailer.

On a more "fun experience" while trailing the boat back home from our first visit to the yard last week, we incurred two different drivers who passed us and provided a "thumbs up". Needless to say, Flag Blue colored, Cat Style Day Sailors are not very common out here. Also received some very positive feedback from workers at the yard regarding the boat's excellent craftsmanship and style. Now if we can get her looking like new again, we should be happy day sailors.

John T.

 

[Porgy]

I guess I don’t have enough insurance claims under my belt to understand but, if the shipper caused the damage why doesn’t the shipper’s insurance pay for the damage. Why are you responsible for a deductible?

Do boat insurance premiums really go up due to a claim for which you had no responsibility or control over? My only experience is with automobile insurance and neither one of those issues occurred.

And, please, please I beg of you. It’s a catboat, not cat styled boat. https://www.catboats.org/?

Good luck with your repairs and enjoyment of a very nice catboat.

 

[BandB]

I guess I don’t have enough insurance claims under my belt to understand but, if the shipper caused the damage why doesn’t the shipper’s insurance pay for the damage. Why are you responsible for a deductible?

Do boat insurance premiums really go up due to a claim for which you had no responsibility or control over? My only experience is with automobile insurance and neither one of those issues occurred.

And, please, please I beg of you. It’s a catboat, not cat styled boat. https://www.catboats.org/?

Good luck with your repairs and enjoyment of a very nice catboat.

I suspect while insurance was for shipping, it was a third party policy and property rather than liability.

Premiums and insurability go up on boats, houses, and cars over claims you have nothing to do with. They may not on a specific claim, but all accident and claim history is ultimately considered long term when pricing.

Now I seldom recommend suing and have never sued in my life, but this is a time I'd strongly consider taking the carrier to small claims court if they refuse to pay the deductible. They're getting out cheap if all they have to pay is $1000.

 

[N4061]

Insurance

B&B summed it up perfectly so I will let the insurance discussion go for now and figure I'm out about $1K. Not enough to get stressed out over. I did confirm with Boat US that if I proceed with filing a claim and let them go after the other insurance company it would show up as a formal claim and could impact future rates so I think I will hold off for now. You never know we may enjoy this sailing thing and decide to build a larger boat in the future where insurance would cost more.

Yesterday I checked on the boat to see how the boat was supported since I had to leave the yard prior to them supporting the boat on stands. Turns out they added two supports under the keel (just like a real trawler) to keep pressure off the sides where the support pads were positioned. While most boats have less glass build-up on their hull sides a 16' sailboat with most of its weight down low has even less and the support pads (designed for a much larger boat) would place too much pressure on the thinner part of the hull. At least the workers knew enough to address this issue and prevent additional damage. The Gel Coat repair technician plans to start work on our boat Monday so we could be out of the yard Wednesday and hopefully in the water for a test run with the Torqueedo OB Thursday. With my luck it will rain Thursday so at this point its fingers crossed. Still need to figure out how to raise the heavy mast without killing myself as I step up using a two-step ladder onto the forward deck. My height (5'4") is not helping me as I walk the mast forward and run out of leverage. Need to get creative or else may have to sell the boat and buy a trawler.

John T.

 

[ZekeZed]

Aye, you’re a Sailor now

Boy, you’re going to need lots of tools and fittings and parts on that trailer to support your new toy. Splicing will be a handy skill. Might want to start with a light weight 10’ aluminium pole with a padded crook on the end to push the mast the last few feet up to vertical.
Please don’t ever raise the mast by yourself.

 

[N4061]

Supporting the Mast

Boy, you’re going to need lots of tools and fittings and parts on that trailer to support your new toy. Splicing will be a handy skill. Might want to start with a light weight 10’ aluminium pole with a padded crook on the end to push the mast the last few feet up to vertical.
Please don’t ever raise the mast by yourself.

Your comment on supporting the 22' mast is right on point. First time I "attempted" to lift it into its vertical position (per the video) I could not do it and thought "time to sell and buy another trawler". But I could not give up this easy. While at the yard I had another person up on the forward deck assist me and was able to raise and lower the mast. Conclusions include; 1) I'm a little short at 5' 4" which hurts my leverage. 2) I'm not as strong as I was at 20 years old and need to work on my upper body strength.

For assistance and reduce risk of killing myself I built a cradle (PVC) to hold the mast at the 45-degree position while I step up onto the bow deck. I have not tested it yet and not sure if 45-degrees is the right angle but I can adjust it. I'm also considering second support closer to 75-degrees for when I start to lower the mast. Both can be built in sections and fit the pick-up truck so not concerned with storage.

Returning to trailing a boat is definitely a challenge and adding the mast (not to mention the sails still in the bag) is making me wonder how this will all work out. That new N52 is starting to look good.

John

 

[N4061]

Boat Repairs

Late last week I picked up the boat from the yard and pleased to say it looks better than new. Yes, even though it is a new boat the gel coat repair guy finished the hull where the small waves within the gel coat which come from the mold were gone. Every boat has them and to be honest I didn't notice them on this boat until he pointed them out. With a Dark Blue color, they
are more noticeable once you start looking. Wow, this guy is good.

I was so impressed with his work and the care the yard provided I decided to buy everyone lunch and left a happy boater. Over the weekend I reinstalled the electric motor components which I had removed for fear of someone taking them while the boat was being repaired. Good thing I had a few photos of the original installation to help me orientate the battery and cables in the correct position.

Typical with my luck every time we get a new boat the weather turns bad. We had one of the heaviest rains yesterday with high winds we have seen in years. Temperatures are stuck in the 60's during the day time so not boating this week or weekend but I plan to work on the mast supports and figure out how to raise and lower it without damaging the boat or killing myself. I'm not in any rush and find myself getting a little exercise moving the trailing in and out of the garage by hand.

Final documentation was submitted to the carrier's insurance company and waiting to see how long until I see some funds reimbursed. At least I don't have to pay docking fees every month which is a nice $900/month savings.

John T.

 

[Peter B]

John, if I read your posts correctly, it sounds like the boat was not strapped down to the actual trailer. I can't believe they relied just on the tension in the winching strop. if they omitted to tie her down to the trailer, at least one for'd and aft tie on each side to the side pad support struts, then the carrier is liable with a capital L in my view.

Actually, back in my trailer boat days, if I was trailing one of my trailer yachts any distance, (towing it myself) I would do that, as well as making sure the winch was tensioned - and a secure extra tie added between tow hook and the main winch support as well. This completely removed any chance of the boat bouncing around. Never had so much as a scratch as a result.

On a more positive note, re the mast raising. After I partly dislocated my right shoulder trying to do that just by brute strength - yeah stupid is as stupid does - I decided there had to be a better way. Because it was a masthead rig, the mast on our first 20' boat actually weighed more than the mast on our 26' second boat.

What I did was use the spinnaker pole, (but if there is no such thing in your rig, any suitable alloy pole with appropriate end fittings would do), attached to the front of the mast. The spinnaker mount if there is one is ideal, otherwise drill and fit something like it. Then use a short brace line from the outer end of the pole to some secure place each side rail, opposite the base of the mast, to hold the pole in the midline, then by attaching the forestay through the end fitting of the pole, to some suitable extension line, one can then run that round the anchor roller (or suitable block if no anchor roller), and lead that back to a sheet winch on one side to use to wind the whole thing up. With just a modest lift of the mast to say one of the supports you have fashioned, to start the lift, it would then be possible for someone to begin winching while you guide the mast as it rises. The rest then is easy. I hope you can visualise what I have described. Best of luck.

PS, now I have looked right back to see a picture of your new boat, I realise the mast base is very forward, so you could adapt the suggestion above by taking the forestay extension line forward of the boat & trailer, to say a fitting on the towbar of your vehicle, to give the right sort of leverage. But actually, re-looking at the photo, it does not look like the mast is all that heavy, so probably your mast rest system should work, but if not the system I described above should still make it a lot easier to raise. However, as I now see there are no sheet winches, just another person, or yourself, pulling on this rope would raise the mast, then you could cleat it off on that aft cleat while you secured the forestay.