Nav Computer Monitor

Our boat came with an old Furuno MFD, the charts are crap but the radar is nice, so I installed a Nuk running Nobeltec for charting. The Nuk is fine running on either AC or DC. I would like to find a good monitor to use with it that can run on 12VDC. Anyone have some experience with a product they would recommend?

I have a Planar Helium PCT2235 Touch Screen 22" monitor that I love, connected to a NUC as well, running TimeZero at my salon helm. It works in bright sun, with sunglasses on, and has very accurate touch, which I like so I don't have to search for the mouse.



However, it is not DC powered, and definitely not good for outdoors. I looked at many different options, and the quality of the screen or touch interface suffered if you go to the marine-grade outdoor stuff, or choose one that runs off of DC power. I did find some that were close, but the price tag was in the $2000-3000 range, which I think is insane to spend the money on, considering an MFD is a similar cost, and you're really not getting anything special.....

That Planar unit looks nice. I currently use a standard 22” home computer monitor that cost less than $100. Works fine and with a wireless mouse, everything does what I want it to. The screen is located too far from the helm to make touchscreen something useful.
I am mostly looking to switch to something DC, long story but the short version is that it would be the simplest short term fix. I know dedicated marine monitors are stupid expensive and was just wondering if there is a cost effective solution. I currently run through a cheap inverter on the dash, just looking for other options.

Ventana said:

I am mostly looking to switch to something DC, long story but the short version is that it would be the simplest short term fix. I know dedicated marine monitors are stupid expensive and was just wondering if there is a cost effective solution. I currently run through a cheap inverter on the dash, just looking for other options.

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Gotcha. For DC monitors, I usually look at car or industrial displays. I've used several from Logic Supply (now Onlogic) and they seem to have a few, although their site seems harder to navigate now:

https://www.onlogic.com/computers/components/industrial-displays/

On the AC side, I've installed a dedicated, small Victron inverter for my salon, independent from my existing larger Victron setup, which is dedicated to running my NUC, USB hub, and Planar monitor. This opened up a ton of other options in terms of the monitor, and it ensures that the NUC is running off of it's original power supply. While it adds a bit more expense and takes up some space, I like the fact that I can use more off the shelf stuff, as I know in 2-3 years there will be better monitor and PC tech that I might want to swap out. If I spent $700 on a DC monitor, I might not do that for 5+ years...

I've been pondering whether running the NUC off of a 12v battery bank has caused some of my issues, which is why I decided to run the current one off of an inverter + it's factory supply. One of mine died after about 6 months, and Intel blamed the lower voltage, although I am not 100% sure I believe them since the circuitry inside can handle it. I've had 2 die in the last 3 years, both on boats. I use NUCs at work, and we have over 400 deployed with only two failures, so .... Who knows....

What is a NUC?

Bob Cofer said:

What is a NUC?

Click to expand...

It's a small, low power consumption PC.

Ventana said:

Our boat came with an old Furuno MFD, the charts are crap but the radar is nice, so I installed a Nuk running Nobeltec for charting.

Click to expand...

Charts are crap? Something other than latest NOAA raster and vector charts, or the optional C-Map or Navionics vector options?

-Chris

If your using 12 v DC for power you need a regulated power supply. Maybe the NUC isn't well regulated ?? The power fluctuations from starting and charging are the problem.
Before the age of tablets and auto head units with screens I fooled around with running a PC in a car. Almost every thing in a computer runs off 12v or 5.5 v. The power supply just converts 120 ac to 12 volt dc. Found a regulated power supply that plugged into the 24 pin socket on the motherboard that the PC power supply plugged into. Of course it was 12 v only then.
No idea if anything like that is available now.
For the monitor look for one with a 'brick' in the power cord. Used to be you could find one where the 'brick' was a transformer that reduced the voltage to 12 v DC.
Like I said ancient history. Now a smartphone or tablet will do most of what you want.
And finding one view able in daylight will be a challenge.

ranger42c said:

Charts are crap? Something other than latest NOAA raster and vector charts, or the optional C-Map or Navionics vector options?

-Chris

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The charts that came with the Furuno are old Cmap, it is an old pre-TZ unit.

Solly said:

And finding one view able in daylight will be a challenge.

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Doesn’t seem to be as big an issue for us. The wheelhouse window placement might be part of it, but I suspect our location has a lot to do with having good screen readability. Maybe in bright sunlight it will be a problem, but that hasn’t been an issue yet, we’ve only had the computer running for a year.:lol:

Maybe look at 12v TV instead?
Works as a monitor plus it does other stuff.

Surely US has something similar?

https://www.kogan.com/au/buy/kogan-...aOkyKDqJYBStWlVPTzPSzjUJk321CNExoCHe8QAvD_BwE

Simi 60 said:

Maybe look at 12v TV instead?
Works as a monitor plus it does other stuff.

Surely US has something similar?

https://www.kogan.com/au/buy/kogan-...aOkyKDqJYBStWlVPTzPSzjUJk321CNExoCHe8QAvD_BwE

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Thanks. Not sure why it didn’t occur to me. Amazon shows a bunch of options, possibly even a few they will ship here. I had waterproof, marine grade monitors in my head, but in the wheelhouse I can go with household products and that provides a lot of options.

Ventana said:

The charts that came with the Furuno are old Cmap, it is an old pre-TZ unit.

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Last I checked, those were still update-able. Have you talked to Furuno about it?

As for the monitor, a small inverter and regular monitor will be cheaper than a pure 12v one (unless the unit is inherently 12 volt with a brick attached). Where will this monitor be? Pilothouse? Flying bridge?

As long as the monitor takes some kind of DC voltage in, you could use a voltage regulator to convert 12 volts to whatever it needs to avoid an inverter and then going through the power adapter.

We installed regular office monitors in the pilothouse with a dedicated small Victron inverter, good quality Eizo units - works just fine, at a small fraction of the cost of dedicated marine monitors.

Ventana said:

Our boat came with an old Furuno MFD, the charts are crap but the radar is nice, so I installed a Nuk running Nobeltec for charting. The Nuk is fine running on either AC or DC. I would like to find a good monitor to use with it that can run on 12VDC. Anyone have some experience with a product they would recommend?

Click to expand...

Following along with this. I am about to pull the trigger on a NUC type PC for NWD, along with a monitor, for the lower helm. I am also looking at building a suitable weatherproof cabinet for a flybridge monitor to run off the same NUC. I already have a 12" portable monitor that only requires a USB and mini HMDI to run, no other power source needed, its just not weatherproof.

My tentative thoughts are to mount the monitor on a RAM mount; they have a selection of mounts that will work with VESA 100x100.

I've located a suitable NUC (not an intel but another manufacturer mini computer) and found a couple monitors on amazon that might fit the bill, both of which have speakers. I just haven't picked the size yet.

The NUCalike i found and monitors all run off 12 v (from an included adapter) so wiring them into the boat's house system should be a snap, native computing with no need for the inverter to run.

I really like the touch screen idea though, and might go back to the drawing board to see if there is a similar model that can run on 12v.

Here is what I've found for monitors that interest me.

Amazon.com

That's the 27 in version, you can search further for the 24 in version. Like I said, one of my criteria is to have the speakers built in, so I can get sound without having to buy/install separate speakers. Def going back to double check for touch screen monitors first though.

Richard on Dauntless (a KK) uses two monitors for his cabin, he's a member here on TF. He's posted a series of videos on youtube that show his monitors. in this video, he mentions that he uses Samsung 24 inch monitors. They look like they are working quite well for him. Part of what is prompting me to research more into an installed computer instead of the laptop on the chart table... My helm is not conducive to twin monitors, and I have to mount it closer to the windshields because of my companionway, so I'm thinking about the larger size (27 in).

My tentative thoughts are to mount the monitor on a RAM mount; they have a selection of mounts that will work with VESA 100x100.

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These are terrific; the standard matte screen 300 nit 19" Acer we had on the flying bridge was mounted on one. If on the odd occasion the sun was at the wrong angle, you could easily adjust it. When finished for the day, it folded down flat into covered cabinet.

This picture has it at about half mast, you could raise it up and point it right square at the helm.

Bob Cofer said:

What is a NUC?

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It’s made by Intel “Next Unit Computing”

Steve: I’ve been running my NUC just fine for 2 years with no problems. Mind you all I’m operating on it is the NEMO Gateway with CE. Is their any chance your voltage dropped below 12 volts whilst running it? That might be an issue.

Jim

I have been fooling around with a Raspberry Pi running Open CPN via HDMI to a standard monitor. Kind of the same thing.

Bob Cofer said:

I have been fooling around with a Raspberry Pi running Open CPN via HDMI to a standard monitor. Kind of the same thing.

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Not really.
Raspberry pi is not much more than a mid range mobile phone or tablet computing power.

NUC and devices like them can be considerably more powerful.

We run a Lenovo Thinkcentre Tiny I got on eBay for a couple of hundred bucks
Intel i7
8gb ram
250gb SSD
Etc

JDCAVE said:

It’s made by Intel “Next Unit Computing”

Steve: I’ve been running my NUC just fine for 2 years with no problems. Mind you all I’m operating on it is the NEMO Gateway with CE. Is their any chance your voltage dropped below 12 volts whilst running it? That might be an issue.

Jim

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I doubt it’s dropped below that. The last two boats I’ve had LiFePO4 banks which are hard to drop below that level, and the NUCs were very close to the source, so little chance of voltage drop.

Just strange that many have died on the boat when 400 have run elsewhere without issues.

Ventana said:

The charts that came with the Furuno are old Cmap, it is an old pre-TZ unit.

Click to expand...

Is it as new as NAVnet 3D, though? (Predates TZ...) That'd be what Furuno introduced circa 2007-ish or so, plus/minus, I think...

If so, there are new charts every year...

-Chris

Ventana said:

The charts that came with the Furuno are old Cmap, it is an old pre-TZ unit.

Click to expand...

I've got some NavNet3D, pre-TZ units and agree that the chart display isn't all that great. It "works" but it's not very modern looking. It's annoying how limited the text options are, as their color choices end up with some contrast problems. Can't easily discern single-digit depths as easily as I'd like (is that showing 8' or 3', hard to tell with light blue text with a white outline, over the same colored background). Other plotters did a better job then, and all do a better job now.

I second the suggestion of looking for an AC monitor and using an inverter. The mobile display market is very limited and very expensive. The cost to add the inverter may well be less than what the ideal DC monitor might end up costing.

wkearney99 said:

I've got some NavNet3D, pre-TZ units and agree that the chart display isn't all that great. It "works" but it's not very modern looking. It's annoying how limited the text options are, as their color choices end up with some contrast problems. Can't easily discern single-digit depths as easily as I'd like (is that showing 8' or 3', hard to tell with light blue text with a white outline, over the same colored background). Other plotters did a better job then, and all do a better job now.

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Interesting. Ours is NN3D on a 12" MFD, but I have almost exclusively used NOAA's raster charts, so the display has essentially been about equal to looking at the same charts on the 15" laptop (TimeZero) or a 10" tablet (MX Mariner).

I'm just getting ready to bite the bullet and start using the NOAA vector charts on our trip back north. First encounter, I don't see much difference on the 3 different devices either, but we'll see how that goes.

-Chris

stevemitchell said:

...

I've been pondering whether running the NUC off of a 12v battery bank has caused some of my issues, which is why I decided to run the current one off of an inverter + it's factory supply. One of mine died after about 6 months, and Intel blamed the lower voltage, although I am not 100% sure I believe them since the circuitry inside can handle it. I've had 2 die in the last 3 years, both on boats. I use NUCs at work, and we have over 400 deployed with only two failures, so .... Who knows....

Click to expand...

I use 12V surge suppressors on my boat electronics. A low voltage dip is unlikely to cause damage; a high voltage spike will, however. Caused by things like DC motors on that bus. Also might consider a conformal coat on the PCB's. Must keep salt off of close clearance runners. EVen on 1.8V logic stuff.

ranger42c said:

Interesting. Ours is NN3D on a 12" MFD, but I have almost exclusively used NOAA's raster charts, so the display has essentially been about equal to looking at the same charts on the 15" laptop (TimeZero) or a 10" tablet (MX Mariner).

I'm just getting ready to bite the bullet and start using the NOAA vector charts on our trip back north. First encounter, I don't see much difference on the 3 different devices either, but we'll see how that goes.

Click to expand...

The raster charts look as you'd expect, as they're just pixels. It's the vector chart display that's lacking on the NN3D-MFD12. I'm fortunate to have two at each station, and I keep one in vector; the other raster. If/when I upgrade the setup I'll likely continue that same pattern as it's useful to have all the raster chart extra data while also having a less-cluttered vector version. Hard to say which is "better" for radar or weather overlay as they both seem to have the same display update speed (which was a big reason in the past to use one format over another).

diver dave said:

I use 12V surge suppressors on my boat electronics. A low voltage dip is unlikely to cause damage; a high voltage spike will, however. Caused by things like DC motors on that bus. Also might consider a conformal coat on the PCB's. Must keep salt off of close clearance runners. EVen on 1.8V logic stuff.

Click to expand...

Be careful about conformal coating, especially if it's gear that runs hot. Which may potentially be a bigger issue if the unit operates exposed to the heat of direct sunlight.

Low voltages may cause a power supply to fail sooner than expected.

wkearney99 said:

The raster charts look as you'd expect, as they're just pixels. It's the vector chart display that's lacking on the NN3D-MFD12. I'm fortunate to have two at each station, and I keep one in vector; the other raster. If/when I upgrade the setup I'll likely continue that same pattern as it's useful to have all the raster chart extra data while also having a less-cluttered vector version. Hard to say which is "better" for radar or weather overlay as they both seem to have the same display update speed (which was a big reason in the past to use one format over another).

Click to expand...

I'll have to get used to the vector display, given eventual raster sunset.

The other day, I turned on all the optional markers... so everything's on, just now, and I guess I'll work with it for a while to see what I can turn off, if anything.

I also experimented with the two color schemes, can't say either is perfect.

I've been assuming it's only my unfamiliarity... slightly supported by not seeing anything substantially better in the AquaMap, iSailor, or C-Map vector charts...

-Chris

Amazon has a couple of 12 vdc monitors, 10 and 7 inch for around 70 bucks.

I have run a NUC for about 5 years on my sailboat with zero problems straight to my ships supply. Although I run the monitors (one at the chart table and a 32" on the bulkhead for the mast head camera and movies) thru the inverter, again zero problems. Handy thing with the NUC is I have an excel spreadsheet I keep all my maintenance records on, and all my manuals, sailing directions, etc on pdf so they are easy to bring up. I used to use a laptop but these NUC's are smaller, no screen to deal with, and I leave it on 24/7. About the size of two packs of cigarettes and mounted right at my chart table.

I picked up a raspberry pi for my new to me trawler and put OpenPlotter on it. I put the extra heat sinks on it as recommended in Matilda's Journey: Setting up our Raspberry Pi with OpenPlotter

Find I am using it more then my Raymarine or Garmen MFD's. Plotting routes is easier and the charts are free for US waters.

I use quarks $135 AIS/GPS that is wireless and simple to hook up.

M

Ventana said:

Our boat came with an old Furuno MFD, the charts are crap but the radar is nice, so I installed a Nuk running Nobeltec for charting. The Nuk is fine running on either AC or DC. I would like to find a good monitor to use with it that can run on 12VDC. Anyone have some experience with a product they would recommend?

Click to expand...

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We're running an older Furuno Navnet VX1 with CMAP chart chips and an ARPA board for the radar. It has been extremely reliable and I think the CMAP charts are just fine albeit, a little pricier than I'd like. If your Furuno is set up for Navionics charts I can understand your concern, but in that case you could probably trade it with a used equipment dealer for a small up-charge. I've had very good service from Max Marine Electronics in Ft Lauderdale. Their prices are fair, and the people are very knowledgeable.


I also run Open/CPN on an inexpensive laptop as backup and for AIS capability.



https://maxmarineelectronics.com/