Trim piece turned nightmare

I have used epoxy and fumed silica (Aerosil) for fairing and filling. Mixing in the silica depends on the job - thick peanut butter for filling large gaps, thicker if a vertical surface, thinner is good for injecting into delaminated layers with a syringe and large bore needle. But it sets up hard and is difficult to sand.

TotalBoat’s fairing compound is a pre-formulated, two part epoxy which is easy to use, thick, has a reasonable working time, easier to sand and has a long shelf life. Have been using for a few years. I’ve been finishing with sprayed on two part polyurethane with good results.

https://www.totalboat.com/product/totalfair/

Available from Amazon.

Good luck with your repairs.

MisfitManaged said:

BTW, I am a single female and this is my first boat. So, don't talk to me like I'm an idiot, but also talk to me like I'm an idiot. If that's possible

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First & foremost -welcome aboard! Despite some previous comments, most of us start off like idiots about Fiberglas repair, but we can all learn. You have been given lots of advice some of which is rather conflicting.

First principles are important: Prep work is absolutely key. If you don't get back to clean, stable substrate, the repair, (regardless of the material used) will eventually separate, allow water to enter the seams and rot/failure follows.

The first attempt, most of us, don't make a big enough hole, grind out far enough/deep enough or get rid of ALL the rot, 'cause it either will lead to a much bigger job than we want to tackle or, more commonly, we are uncertain how to fill the defect. One of the beauties of Fiberglas (FRP) is that it is infinitely rebuildable with simple techniques, and inexpensive materials. Clean out the defect, carefully clean all surfaces and rebuild with layers of torn pieces of Chopped Strand Mat and either polyester resin (only use with CSM above the water line) or (more expensive, but structurally stronger) Epoxy resin (which can also be thickened with West 403 for small/vertical defects. Whichever resin, you choose, be meticulous about working temperature and correct proportions. The worst thing that can happen is you have to grind it out and do over. More likely, you will just have to sand out the high spots and perhaps build up a few low spots you missed. You don't need a lot of expensive tools, at minimum N95 masks or proper respirator, a basic disc sander or inexpensive 4" angle grinder, possibly a Dremel tool/equivalent for small areas/cracks. Since you are painting, no worries about gelcoat.

Here's a useful video illustrating the basic principles. Andys technique of saturating the CSM with a chip brush is easy and very useful. Your pic suggests that it is not a structural repair (hopefully) so for a fully contained defect, you won't have to grind the edges out as far, concentrating more on filling the defects from the bottom up.

http://blip.tv/boatworks-today/different-types-of-fiberglass-repair-6021211

try a small area or fill a defect on a scrap piece of wood/FRP, you may surprise yourself.

BoatWorks Today has a lot of great videos on fiberglass repair. Some are public and some are for paid members. It costs about $3 per month and there is lots of knowledge there.

A repair like that has to be done properly. Invest in a oscillating tool from HBR Freight and carbide blade cutback till you can reinsert a core Exterior ply, lots of saturating epoxy then grind back and re-lam the deck. Never have the problem again. 150 bucks of stuff and labour then done!

Another Welcome! Julie, I’ve seen guys that can’t successfully remove a screw (my dad was one) and worked with ladies who could dial in a 120 foot long tool. It just comes from what we were exposed to and took an interest in as we get older. The smartest thing you’ve done with is ask for help. Where you need a visual, Andy at http://blip.tv/boatworks-today/different-types-of-fiberglass-repair-6021211 is superb. There are other YouTube blogs that demonstrate how to make boat repairs.
From my experience, the first thing would be to establish the limit of the void and any hidden extensions. This is relatively easy to do using anything to tap with from a very small hammer, to a pocket knife. When you tap on a place that’s “solid”, that is there’s no separation in the laminating, you will get a sharp return. You can test the sound by tapping on you table. If the return is muffled, there’s an issue. The most common in the area you are working would be “soft wood”. That a nice way of saying rotted. It could also be the result of a past repair or a construction void.
I keep four power tools aboard. A 20v driver, a 20v drill (both Black and Decker), a small shop vac and an oscillating tool. Depending on the extent of the void plus the suspect surrounding area, a simple clean and fill may do the job, Personally I like “Thickso” which is thickened polyester resin. Clean up the hole, lay in the Thickso, then cover with Duck Tape. The suggestions of practicing with the material is spot on. The advantage of Thickso or your own mixture of polyester resin is how quickly it will “kick”. A slow to kick material is an obvious issue with vertical surfaces. If the area sounds like it’s, say 6” x 3”, then there are other options. First the area has to be dry on the inside. Iiwm, I’d get out the oscillating tool and if I could get at it from the back side, cut the fiberglass and layer of reinforcement (plywood) but not cut the outer fiberglass. Next I’d peel the cut area away from the outer layer of fiberglass and then clean and dry the cavity. To backfill, a piece of plywood cut to fit and soaked in a catilized 50/50 mix of resin and acetone would be pressed into or covered with a “buttering” (smeared layer of bonding compound) of Thickso. Push the plywood plug in firmly and use something to hold it in place. After eight hours or so, sand everything flat with the plug are depressed so you can butter the fiberglass layer/piece you cut out and insert it in the depression getting it as close to its original position as you can. Clean up the squeezed out Thickso, and finish the repair based on Andy’s demonstration (the boatwerks guy).
For the time being, as you are deciding how big the area is and your repair plan, you can cover the opening with Duct Tape, I prefer Gorilla Tape.
I too would welcome any questions via private message.

well, I'm more comfortable working with polyester resins, so this would be the way I would do it.
First, clean out the area good with a dremel tool, clean with acetone.
Assuming it's structurally sound, I would fill the bulk of the gap with fiberglass reinforced Bondo, as that set up quickly and is compatible with polyester resins.
Then I would put 2 layers of resin and 1 1/2 once fiberglass mat, then sand/grind smooth, then gelcoat or paint (gelcoat would be my first choice).

That trim piece is 100% decorative. It does not cover any seams or joints. You could actually rip it off, patch the damaged area with fiberglass and paint the decorative trim line on the boat.

I went a different route on my boat. I carefully tapped the trim piece and painted it.

Now, since you are new and I have not said it in a while I'll say it again. (Regarding your use of latex/silicone caulk.)

Do not use any product which you can buy at Home Depot, Menards or Lowes (or the like) on your boat! This includes lumber, caulk, fasteners, paint, varnish, electronics, fixtures, tune up parts,etc.

Certain plumbing parts may be the exception. Maybe Windex also, but don't use windex on electronics or clear plastics.

Oh, BTW, Welcome Aboard!

pete

Be careful here as there is a lot of advice using epoxy resin. Epoxy like 3M 5200 has its place so when used insure it’s being applied where removals are not required down the road. These Taiwanese fly bridges like almost all smaller yachts in the U.S. and Europe are fabricated on the shop floors atop jigs then lifted and installed atop the deckhouse roof. Attachment schemes can include anything from a wood cleat fastened to the roof that the bridge coamings slip over and around with screws driven from the outside into the cleat. Other bridges have a base flange that usually extends 1 1/2 - 2” inboard so it can be screwed down into the deckhouse roof. The third option that I’m familiar with is the bridge footprint large enough to slip over the outside perimeter of the roof then screwed laterally and trimmed off. I have no idea which method your boat uses.

I do know this when I had my shop we had several jobs where boats were being trucked across country so we were hired to remove flybridges then build framing to stow them atop the aft cabin overhanging the cockpit. Had somebody gone in and epoxied or 5200’d the bridge to the roof it would have turned the unfastening job into a cutting job - I think you get my drift. So remember these flybridges do get removed from time to time

If you have water migration into the deckhouse roof then you have wet Lauan plywood core resulting if both delamination and probably fungal rot. But understand there is quite a bit of camber to the roof so generally water and deterioration will be limited to the perimeter if your lucky. If the condition has grown and extended well below or beyond the coaming base then you’re now looking at bridge removal or elevation to effect repairs. You don’t want to go there if possible. If you have wet rotted ply core around the flybridge base it’s probably from lack of proper bedding of inside cleat fasteners or flange screws. I seriously doubt you have a condition that is structurally significant, so I’d address your problems locally without tearing too much apart. Sorry I can’t be more specific but I don’t have enough information and pictures won’t work for me. If you have a moisture meter or somebody that REALLY knows how to use a surveyors hammer then it would behoove you to inspect the entire roof.

Rick

mvweebles said:

West System has quite a few decent videos.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLKrXmm9fNk0b_btfL4THlghAT6ciaY3hB

Decent video that quickly describes thickening. You are looking for a filler, not a bonding blend.

Full disclosure: Im not great at this stuff, but I am not awful. It can be tough to keep the area free of sags and drips. Tape will not keep epoxy from sagging, so make it thick for your vertical surface.

Good luck -

Peter

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+1 for a fiberglass or epoxy filler. WEST System is by far the best to learn with. Plenty of videos on YT to show you the way. Lots of additives to experiment with. Once your comfortable with it it’s ALMOST fool proof. The 2 part epoxy paste from total boat works well and will stand up on vertical repairs just fine. Easy to fair and paints well as long as it’s primered. Try and get all of the loose particles out first then let dry or heat gun. The 2 part paste sets up in minutes. Try and make a jig to drag over the repair to match the shape of adjacent surface as close as possible. Then sand and fair as needed.
Good luck and share some pics. You got this !

garbler said:

Be careful here as there is a lot of advice using epoxy resin. Epoxy like 3M 5200 has its place so when used insure it’s being applied where removals are not required down the road. These Taiwanese fly bridges like almost all smaller yachts in the U.S. and Europe are fabricated on the shop floors atop jigs then lifted and installed atop the deckhouse roof. Attachment schemes can include anything from a wood cleat fastened to the roof that the bridge coamings slip over and around with screws driven from the outside into the cleat. Other bridges have a base flange that usually extends 1 1/2 - 2” inboard so it can be screwed down into the deckhouse roof. The third option that I’m familiar with is the bridge footprint large enough to slip over the outside perimeter of the roof then screwed laterally and trimmed off. I have no idea which method your boat uses.

I do know this when I had my shop we had several jobs where boats were being trucked across country so we were hired to remove flybridges then build framing to stow them atop the aft cabin overhanging the cockpit. Had somebody gone in and epoxied or 5200’d the bridge to the roof it would have turned the unfastening job into a cutting job - I think you get my drift. So remember these flybridges do get removed from time to time

If you have water migration into the deckhouse roof then you have wet Lauan plywood core resulting if both delamination and probably fungal rot. But understand there is quite a bit of camber to the roof so generally water and deterioration will be limited to the perimeter if your lucky. If the condition has grown and extended well below or beyond the coaming base then you’re now looking at bridge removal or elevation to effect repairs. You don’t want to go there if possible. If you have wet rotted ply core around the flybridge base it’s probably from lack of proper bedding of inside cleat fasteners or flange screws. I seriously doubt you have a condition that is structurally significant, so I’d address your problems locally without tearing too much apart. Sorry I can’t be more specific but I don’t have enough information and pictures won’t work for me. If you have a moisture meter or somebody that REALLY knows how to use a surveyors hammer then it would behoove you to inspect the entire roof.

Rick

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Rick, first, 5200 is NOT epoxy. "3M™ Marine Adhesive Sealant 5200 is a one-component, high-strength, moisture-curing, gap-filling polyurethane."

2nd, and maybe this is shortsighted of me, but if the next owner wants to take off the fly bridge and ship it, and has to cut it off . . . . so be it! I'd personally make the "seam" permanent! YMMV

That sounds good!

I like polyurethane glues, use them a lot in my woodworking when have "less than square" cuts. They do expand and they do stick to most anything. And they like a little moisture to cure, but not too much. The more moisture, the more foam.

Yeah, drizzle some of that (be very frugal, you can always re-drizzle) and it will fill that void easy.

I wouldn’t be worried about any future flybridge removal but rather making it secure and watertight now.

slowgoesit said:

Rick, first, 5200 is NOT epoxy. "3M™ Marine Adhesive Sealant 5200 is a one-component, high-strength, moisture-curing, gap-filling polyurethane."

2nd, and maybe this is shortsighted of me, but if the next owner wants to take off the fly bridge and ship it, and has to cut it off . . . . so be it! I'd personally make the "seam" permanent! YMMV

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Wow I didn’t know that. All the years in the boat building and surveying business and nobody told me a tube of 5200 wasn’t made by the Gudgeon Bros. And those pesky flybridges I have to wonder why the builders aren’t talking to you, especially when they have to truck or ship them with the FB’s off. But it just goes to show how builders often don’t have a clue and too many highway bridges are too low. Thanks

Rick

Comodave said:

I wouldn’t be worried about any future flybridge removal but rather making it secure and watertight now.

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I don’t think you realize how many boats are sold on one coast and trucked across country. If you can’t get vertical clearance then a sale is dead. More and more boats are moved over the road every year so flybridge removal is one major element.

I also have to ask just how many flybridges are “ watertight “. A properly installed flybridge takes advantage of the roof camber by providing drainage along the coaming base. Why do you need a flybridge that is “ watertight “ ? Do people hose down or does it rain on flybridges ? What happens if your flybridge gets wet ?

Rick

Fill the hole. Fair the filling. Reinstall trim. Pop a cold beer This isn't rocket science. Key word is "filler." 5200 is an adhesive, not a filler.

Y'all realize the OP is long gone, right?

Peter

garbler said:

I don’t think you realize how many boats are sold on one coast and trucked across country. If you can’t get vertical clearance then a sale is dead. More and more boats are moved over the road every year so flybridge removal is one major element.

I also have to ask just how many flybridges are “ watertight “. A properly installed flybridge takes advantage of the roof camber by providing drainage along the coaming base. Why do you need a flybridge that is “ watertight “ ? Do people hose down or does it rain on flybridges ? What happens if your flybridge gets wet ?

Rick

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Since I used to mobe boats cross country, yes I do realize that boats are moved cross country. I would still rather have it solid and watertight. Yes, there is camber and designed drain holes in the flybridges.

I went back to 1st post. Enlarged the photos a lot. Shows potential of deep rot. Looks like much effort and follow through required to correctly complete items that may arise once dug into... no matter what repair material will be used.

MisfitManaged said:

BTW, I am a single female and this is my first boat. So, don't talk to me like I'm an idiot, but also talk to me like I'm an idiot. If that's possible

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Given the fact that you bought a boat you may be considered, like the rest of us, an idiot.

Comodave said:

Epoxy and thickner will become one of your best friends as you work on the boat. West Epoxies has excellent support.

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Agreed. West System is great stuff and fairly forgiving as it has a long working time. For the finish I would look at Quick Fair epoxy. It is easy to work with and gives great results. Good luck.

mvweebles said:

Fill the hole. Fair the filling. Reinstall trim. Pop a cold beer This isn't rocket science. Key word is "filler." 5200 is an adhesive, not a filler.

Y'all realize the OP is long gone, right?

Peter

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Being a single woman on my first boat, similar to hers, and just passing my 3rd year, I kinda felt for her. Without knowing what else is going on with her and the boat, I wanted to post her that maybe take a step back and assess the boat holistically, prioritize the safety, electrical/engine/mechanical, structural integrity, cosmetic issues and make a project plan. Assess your current skills or those you would like to develop, learn and tackle those items. Read the TF posts, watch videos, Nigel Calders Boatowners manual is my go-to reading. Epoxy/fiberglass repairs might not be the best task to start with, IMO. I'm feeling pretty comfortable now with re-varnishing the teak exterior/interior (I'm so tempted by Pete M. to consider painting at least some of the exterior!). I'm OK with troubleshooting electric 'blips' with the house/starter banks (after replacing the 8 older 4Ds with Lifeline AGMs) And I have a great mechanic that I write checks to for semi-annual maintenance. Maybe she'll come back.

Hello Mr. FF....This is Ms. Squimmy and you are one of my goto TF persons for intelligent and considered advice. I apologize in advance for my long post. Here's my problem/idea: I have a lot of exterior teak that was slathered with Cetol when I bought the MC, the old orangey-kind. The interior parquet was carpeted in the early 80s, which I ripped out. I'm working in sections, exterior in the summer, interior in the winter. This is about the exterior - I'm sanding down to the pretty teak, then using Le Tonkinois #1, building up to a dozen coats. Problem being that I shouldn't have taken all the cetol off because now that teak is going to gray. For another problem, that of my two dogs scratching the rails when boarding, I used a product, Boat Project 1680 by General Chemical Group and painted it on their boarding areas. It's a peelable mask. I was thinking of painting it on all areas that I haven't gotten to - it's not not too difficult to remove. Thanks in advance for your thoughts....and Happy Holidays!

Greetings,
Ms. s. Mr. FF has passed on.