MD DNR “no recreational boating allowed”

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Angus and others, we will hear "for the greater good", more and more.
 
angus99 said:
Also, the last projections I heard (consensus projections by epidemiologists; not hunches, wishes, feelings or aspirations) was 100,000 to 240,000 deaths under a rigorous social distancing regime . . . potentially millions otherwise. This is not the flu.
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:iagree: And, these are the number currently coming out of the White House.

I think some of the posts show what our individual priorities are. :ermm:

Personally, I am happy to forego spending time on my boat this Spring, if it may help save the life of someone else.

Jim
 
Isn't part of this argument that going out on a boat is self isolating?
 
RT Firefly said:
Greetings,
Mr. ASD. I fully agree with your views on the US Constitution. It SHOULD be absolute and in the majority of cases it IS. As I mentioned in a previous post that great document has been "bent" in the past (post #97).



I mentioned the TSA and you responded in your post #86... "Understand TSA. However they are a government agencies created into law after 9-11." Aren't the airport searches in violation of the 4th Amendment? In other words what you are saying is the government made it legal for "someone" to violate your constitutional rights.


I also suggested you do a bit of research to corroborate my comment. Apologies for making you do the work but here are some thoughts from the ACLU:
https://www.aclu.org/other/nsa-spying-americans-illegal
There are numerous other examples.


Yes, various Governors ARE enacting very unconstitutional measures and one can only hope that once this mess settles, they will be held accountable BUT I wouldn't count on it nor would I attempt to my invoke constitutional rights with anyone enforcing these measures. These are wacko-crazy times, my friend, and from my end, I'm just trying to stay healthy and out of everybody's way.


Keep well, stay calm, be strong and wait for the signs
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Thank you RT! You put it so much more elegantly than I could. Rednecks like me have to take the long way around....:whistling:
 
Very Interesting

I am bringing our boat back to NJ from Florida. Right now I am anchored in Mile Hammock In NC. Maryland looks like a problem. Technically I am a live aboard. Originally I thought just pass thru the Chesapeake anchor in secluded places and get it done. No docking no shore trips in dinghy zero interaction with people. Now I am not so sure. Plan B is to anchor in Hampton Rhodes Virginia and wait for a weather window to run offshore straight to Cape May. I am single handling so offshore at night is tricky. Plan C is to leave the boat in Virginia for God knows how long and risk my life with ubers and rental cars to get home. Seems the safest option in now illegal. Or is it. I am a live aboard on a moving vessel. Just want to get back to my Wife and Daughter. JohnP
 
johnrupp said:
Mike,

Just because someone disagrees with your point of view doesn’t make the a dipwad. No reason to be insulting or belittling.

I won’t stoop to your level so “please grow up sir”

John
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John, you are absolutely correct. I apologize to those who felt this was aimed at them and I apologize to all the TF'ers for losing my cool.

I won't promise anything but I'll try not to do anything like that again in the future.

I consider myself severely chastised.
 
psneeld said:
Isn't part of this argument that going out on a boat is self isolating?
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Only partially.

The tread started because the OP was stopped by LEO for what appears to be recreational boating. Currently, the Maryland Stay at Home order prohibits recreational boating. I'll state it again, most 'recreational boaters' in Maryland are not doing so in 40 - 50'+ boats. They are much smaller boats and there is much more interaction with these smaller boats, their owners and with other people. The OP has not explained if he had a discussion with the LEO about WHY he was on the dingy.

The order doesn't prevent people from living on their boats, getting supplies for their boats, or moving their boats for any 'essential' reason. The order is a temporary one prohibiting 'recreational boating.' It is a 'perfect' order? No. Will it change? Possibly.

Jim
 
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JohnP said:
I am bringing our boat back to NJ from Florida. Right now I am anchored in Mile Hammock In NC. Maryland looks like a problem. Technically I am a live aboard. Originally I thought just pass thru the Chesapeake anchor in secluded places and get it done. No docking no shore trips in dinghy zero interaction with people. Now I am not so sure. Plan B is to anchor in Hampton Rhodes Virginia and wait for a weather window to run offshore straight to Cape May. I am single handling so offshore at night is tricky. Plan C is to leave the boat in Virginia for God knows how long and risk my life with ubers and rental cars to get home. Seems the safest option in now illegal. Or is it. I am a live aboard on a moving vessel. Just want to get back to my Wife and Daughter. JohnP
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John, just go! Recall David Farragut. (He was a hero.)
 
Let's think about this single interaction with a single LEO for a moment. This was mere hours after the governor had made a series of broad, high pressure decisions and announced them generally to whatever press was listening. This LEO got a briefing(?) or maybe just an email about the content of the order, and went out to enforce it best as he or she could. They likely had no explanation, no details, no chance to ask questions, nothing. And they could just as easily just be trying to set a tone and make sure that people knew about this, as it had literally just happened. Maybe one person just got a bit carried away.

Or, we can assume that the entire system is out to screw boaters out of their constitutional rights. One of those things.
 
GFC said:
John, you are absolutely correct. I apologize to those who felt this was aimed at them and I apologize to all the TF'ers for losing my cool.



I won't promise anything but I'll try not to do anything like that again in the future.



I consider myself severely chastised.
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No problem Mike.[emoji4]Everyone’s a little edgy over the COVID 19 crisis.

John
 
Just to throw more wood on the fire. As far as I know all MD. courts have suspended operation. So how would you challenge the Governor's order ?? You do know how long it takes a Federal case to go thru. I not sure they are hearing cases either. Unless it's politically motivated like immigration, or the wall, it takes forever to get something blocked. You have to find a "friendly" judge. And then it's only until it can be heard.
I'm thinking we will all have much more to worry about in the coming days than whether we can go on our boats. Hope for the end on May.....
 
Solly said:
Just to throw more wood on the fire. As far as I know all MD. courts have suspended operation. So how would you challenge the Governor's order ?? You do know how long it takes a Federal case to go thru. I not sure they are hearing cases either. Unless it's politically motivated like immigration, or the wall, it takes forever to get something blocked. You have to find a "friendly" judge. And then it's only until it can be heard.
I'm thinking we will all have much more to worry about in the coming days than whether we can go on our boats. Hope for the end on May.....
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Calif 9th circuit's court will overturn EVERYTHING.

My question, are other countries imposing quarantine ???
I'm just waiting to learn which country will start shooting its citizens who are breaking the "self-imposed" quarantine.
Now where did I put my tin-foil hat?
 
psneeld said:
The report this morning was people over 60 with no pre existing conditions had a 95% survival rate.

Also the reports stated that pushing the guidelines hard, the models can be altered quite a bit.
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Just not many people over 60 with no pre-existing conditions.
 
OldDan1943 said:
Calif 9th circuit's court will overturn EVERYTHING.

My question, are other countries imposing quarantine ???
I'm just waiting to learn which country will start shooting its citizens who are breaking the "self-imposed" quarantine.
Now where did I put my tin-foil hat?
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Yes, nearly every country in the world is imposing quarantines and many far more seriously than any part of the US. No one being shot but some arrests. You should keep your tin foil hat on since you find it all to be a violation of your rights. I will assure you though, your rights end with the rights of others and you have no rights to expose others unduly after being ordered by local, state, or federal government not to.

We're not just looking out for ourselves, but for our fellow man. Most people are understanding and doing so gracefully. Anything otherwise would sure speak poorly of us.

Now those not doing so put us all at risk, whether it's teens from the University Texas going to Mexico on spring break and 40 catching Covid 19 and then sharing it with others or whether it's the church in GA that continues and starts a cluster of problems in that area.

I'm only being told to do one small think for my fellow man, stay home. Meanwhile others like doctors and nurses and all the other hospital workers are putting their lives at risk daily. If I'm told not to boat, I won't boat. If I'm told not to get in my car, I won't.

I'm fearful of Covid 19. It's a healthy amount of that fear which may save millions of us from death.
 
My mask protects YOU, your mask protects me. So put on your mask when you leave the house to protect me, I put mine on to keep you safe.

Your quarantine protects ME, my quarantine protects you. Let’s stay home until we beat this down to where we can get on with our lives.
 
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BandB said:
Yes, nearly every country in the world is imposing quarantines and many far more seriously than any part of the US. No one being shot but some arrests. You should keep your tin foil hat on since you find it all to be a violation of your rights. I will assure you though, your rights end with the rights of others and you have no rights to expose others unduly after being ordered by local, state, or federal government not to.

We're not just looking out for ourselves, but for our fellow man. Most people are understanding and doing so gracefully. Anything otherwise would sure speak poorly of us.

Now those not doing so put us all at risk, whether it's teens from the University Texas going to Mexico on spring break and 40 catching Covid 19 and then sharing it with others or whether it's the church in GA that continues and starts a cluster of problems in that area.

I'm only being told to do one small think for my fellow man, stay home. Meanwhile others like doctors and nurses and all the other hospital workers are putting their lives at risk daily. If I'm told not to boat, I won't boat. If I'm told not to get in my car, I won't.

I'm fearful of Covid 19. It's a healthy amount of that fear which may save millions of us from death.
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I'm sorry your so fearful of the covid 19, It could be where you live or your own personal situation but there are a lot of places in the country where we thankfully don't need to have the deep fear you have and can go about doing much of the things we like to do without needing to hide from society. Keep at least 6' away from other folks , wash the heck out of your hands, don't touch your face and be smart and one can not live in utter fear of this stuff.

I don't feel that time out on the boat would expose anyone to any additional unnecessary exposure. in the past 25 years we have never needed to be towed, rescued, assisted, helped aboard in any way. I am way more likely to have my new car breakdown on the way to the grocery or some other necessary trip out to get something. The current executive orders ( not laws ) are designed to help the part of the population that frankly are not smart enough to keep themselves or others safe.

If one lives in metropolis or some place where mass transit is the way you get around the rules of course need to be much more strict as your exposure is much greater.
As I have shut our business down to follow orders in our state our family wanted to head out on the boat to the islands for the week. If I wasn't in the process of changing out the house bank and needing to get batteries from my supplier in Seattle I would be writing this while tucked into our settee while at anchor.


Be smart, dont live in fear.. it will pass


HOLLYWOOD
 
Unfortunately, we are learning, that the first thing that gets eliminated by the government in a crisis, is common sense. Not very comforting.
 
Greetings,
I am not living in fear but I have a very, very healthy respect for the tenacity and viability of viruses and bacteria. I expect to live another 40 or 50 years and I won't achieve that goal if I let my guard down or do something inane. Situational awareness.


The weather is not conducive to boating. I would love to be afloat but even IF the weather warmed up, I don't think I would launch as I'm having a great time doing "stuff". I have a wall prepped, ready for paint. I've serviced my fleet of bicycles, I've cleaned up a portion of the garden/deck area. When warmer I will do some boat work (she's in the back 40 on a trailer). ALL good IMO.
 
hollywood8118 said:
I'm sorry your so fearful of the covid 19, It could be where you live or your own personal situation but there are a lot of places in the country where we thankfully don't need to have the deep fear you have and can go about doing much of the things we like to do without needing to hide from society. Keep at least 6' away from other folks , wash the heck out of your hands, don't touch your face and be smart and one can not live in utter fear of this stuff.

I don't feel that time out on the boat would expose anyone to any additional unnecessary exposure. in the past 25 years we have never needed to be towed, rescued, assisted, helped aboard in any way. I am way more likely to have my new car breakdown on the way to the grocery or some other necessary trip out to get something. The current executive orders ( not laws ) are designed to help the part of the population that frankly are not smart enough to keep themselves or others safe.

If one lives in metropolis or some place where mass transit is the way you get around the rules of course need to be much more strict as your exposure is much greater.
As I have shut our business down to follow orders in our state our family wanted to head out on the boat to the islands for the week. If I wasn't in the process of changing out the house bank and needing to get batteries from my supplier in Seattle I would be writing this while tucked into our settee while at anchor.


Be smart, dont live in fear.. it will pass


HOLLYWOOD
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Boy, you are either deep in denial or you do not understand the way a two week incubation period and exponential growth are working together.

Talk to us again in three weeks about those places where you can go about doing much of the things you like to do. Those places where the farms and ranches are far apart and the hospitals are nonexistent. Good luck, you are going to need it.....
 
Woodland Hills said:
Boy, you are either deep in denial or you do not understand the way a two week incubation period and exponential growth are working together.

Talk to us again in three weeks about those places where you can go about doing much of the things you like to do. Those places where the farms and ranches are far apart and the hospitals are nonexistent. Good luck, you are going to need it.....
Click to expand...


I guess you didn't really read my post,
I DO support social distancing, smart hygiene precautions, not going to the local epicenter to get batteries, getting outside support for help.


I little background.. The Admiral is in the medical field and as the head of viral sanitation in the household and is going to extreme lengths to keep the household free from the virus.
One of our kids is home from med school and was just a few weeks away from starting rotations.
We have been staying away from others.
Going out on the boat would even keep us away from the UPS guy!


In NO WAY am I in denial of the virus and its capabilities. How in the heck am I going to be a bad citizen by keeping away from others while on the boat??. Surely not the 2 minute car ride down to the boat, or the open air walk down the dock.


What next, cannot fly around in a private plane because I might somehow infect someone from 2500'.


HOLLYWOOD
 
Hollywood, I get it....

I am not in denial either...I get it as the numbers are coming in where I thought they would based on decades of infectious disease understanding, not today's headlines.

I am more careful than most when making my necessary shopping runs and still move about for exercise, misc things.

The guidance in post #170 furthers the concept of "reasonable" as opposed to "absolute" .
 
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johnrupp said:
... complicated issue like this don’t have one or two sides but rather a circle of ever changing data that both the medical community and our elected leaders must use to make difficult and sometimes incorrect decisions.

Its really not difficult for people to have civil educated debate, discussion and disagreement without out resorting to childish behavior. Try it sometime.
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You'd gain more credibility resisting the urge to close your comments with snark. But hey, free speech and all that.

But you do make the important point that complicated issues often evolve and decision making often results in errors along the way.

It's cold comfort to the now more than ELEVEN THOUSAND dead here in the US that erroneous assumptions about the need for aggressive measures was actively downplayed and ridiculed, and continues to be.
 
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No more than over reaction and modeling with so few filters to be realistic versus worst case even well beyond historical outbreaks.

This very moment I am watching TV and a well known " medical experts" is admitting it been a jumble of info up until now....we are only beginning to understand how things could, woulda, shoulad been handled and the models have been garbage in, garbage out.

Plus the circle concept is exactly what is taught in risk management...mitigate risks ( not necessarily eliminate them)...reevaluate.....keep going.
 
O C Diver said:
Some interesting clarifications there.

Recreational boats are allowed to transit Maryland.

I can move my boat to my slip in Maryland.



Ted
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That’s my interpretation Ted. It also appears that transit from a marina to your home dock or slip is allowed.

John
 
Group9 said:
Unfortunately, we are learning, that the first thing that gets eliminated by the government in a crisis, is common sense. Not very comforting.
Click to expand...


Often, the trick is defining "common."

Anecdote: The first attempt to design a method to transport stuff over ground was a 20" flat board. Didn't roll great. The second attempt was a 20" triangular thing; didn't roll great. The third attempt was a 20" rectangular piece; still didn't roll great. The fourth attempt was cylindrical; rolled much better but it wasn't all that useful for carrying stuff. Then those wonderful Pharoahs figured out a series of tree trunks could help transport bit stones; another move forward. And so forth. Eventually the wheel emerged. Eventually the wheel was harnessed to other wheels, platforms, donkeys/mules/horses/engines, etc...

Imagine trying to invent that in a crisis, in 5 days (or months) flat, when you've never seen one before, only barely have clue why it would be useful, don't know anyone else who might advise (or else everyone you know disagrees on what "common sense" might be)...

In general, things work out. With some participants kicking and screaming, sometimes about important stuff and sometimes about petty crap... and with most everyone else keeping calm and carrying on.

-Chris
 
I stay inside for the protection of all man-kind and for the greater good.
I did venture out today to get some doctoring done and a bit more food.
Yea that part about 'this too shall pass' it true. I had a bagel and creamed cheese and coffee at the hospital. Good thing my condo was not a mile further away. That 'this too shall pass" had my distance measure and whatever was bad passed right through me like an unexpected bolt of lightening. But, true to form..... it passed.
 
sorry. not in the COVID subsection. My bad
 
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I emailed the MD DNR police today and they replied back that it is OK to move your boat to your marina slip or home slip.
 
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