Border Closure Extended

[soin2la]

Small close knit isolated coastal communities + multigenerational homes = recipe for disaster.

Add a few cheaters to that mix and watch out.

 

[Kawini]

Seems to me that there are practical solutions to all the real problems that MAY be associated with transits, especially in light of the fact that I have seen NO evidence that there have been a significant number of cheaters. While I acknowledge that isolated cases exist, I assume that these cases are outliers until someone presents evidence to the contrary.

First, BC could designate the fuel stops where transiting boaters are allowed to refuel and take on water. Those spots would be in places that don’t present a risk of harm to isolated communities. No stops would be allowed in other than specifically designated sites, and operators could be prohibited from stepping beyond the fuel dock.

Second, transiting boaters could be required to fly a Quarantine Flag during their entire transit to clearly indicate their mission and to make it easy for RCMP and CG to recognize stragglers and cheaters.

Instead of revelling in the consequences of this pandemic, as a certain TF member appears to do, why not start looking for practical and safe solutions that facilitate transit?

Just my two cents.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. K. Quite sensible suggestions and quite doable IMO. Practical and safe solutions are easily followed by responsible people. Don't you see the problem here? Yep. Cheaters. Probably one in a thousand BUT this whole worldwide mess was started by ONE person.

 

[SteveK]

+2. I have yet to see a fuel dock that cannot be segregated from the rest of the marina. They have water too. Fuel and water and move along can be accomodated. The problems will be from those as mentioned occurred with a flotilla of NW charter boats early in the season mooring and seeing the sights.
A few will spoil it for the many. Remember the American caught twice bragging about breaking the rules.

 

[MurrayM]

Are you accusing me of 'revelling' Mr K, or ASD for continuing to post these border closing threads? Must be at least three of them on the same topic now.

I keep posting the numbers because it might help put things in perspective; like how according to the article linked above Saskatchewan has had 319 cases per 100,000 residents while BC has had 126 cases per 100,000 residents.

This why BC is thinking of limiting travel between BC and the rest of Canada.

According to the link below, Canada has had 18,346 cases per million. The USA has had 72,586 per million. You outnumber us 10:1 in population.

I keep posting these numbers hoping it will help people understand why the border is closed.

BC is lucky to have Dr Bonnie Henry, who was in charge in Ontario when the Toronto SARS outbreak occurred, and learned much. She is the reason BC has managed as it has. Without her preparation and guidance, we'd be doing much worse.

A combination of luck and politicians staying out of the way.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

 

[Kawini]

Murray M-

You are not the TF member that I had in mind when I wrote my previous comment. I’m all for sharing info on Covid which I believe to be a significant public health issue requiring very aggressive government management. On the other hand, a TF member who states that every American boat not transmitting an AIS signal in BC has turned their transponder off to avoid detection isn’t adding anything useful to the conversation, and does nothing more than display ignorance regarding AIS and a pretty small spirit.

And with respect, I don’t believe that ASD and I share any beliefs or ideas at all with respect to Covid or American politics, but I bet we could bond over a tranquil anchorage with abundant prawns. I’m sure he posts on this issue because he’s looking forward to his upcoming cruising season - and not to stir the pot.

Cheers.

 

[MurrayM]

Gotch'ya

 

[soin2la]

Lol, Murray. I thought the referemce was to me until I read this:

On the other hand, a TF member who states that every American boat not transmitting an AIS signal in BC has turned their transponder off to avoid detection.

Because I certainly didn't say that.
Now every Canadian is wondering if it is them.
On the other hand, every American boat wishing to transit without detection, needs only fly a Canadian flag.
Works well, until they all speak.

 

[soin2la]

And Kawini, just in case you believe it is me who is being “ignorant and small spirited,” until the US gets a handle on the current virus and deals with what is yet to come, anyone travelling to or through BC, for purely their own pleasure, will hear; “stay the hell away,” from me.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/coronavirus-variants-canada-1.5875629

“On Friday, scientists with the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) released modelling data that warned by March, B117 could become the dominant strain in the United States.”

“More contagious strains of the coronavirus have rapidly spread to more than 50 countries around the world, raising concerns that they may already be silently driving spikes in cases in Canada that threaten to overwhelm the healthcare system.”

"A virus that is substantially more fit to infect more people is the last thing we needed right now, and we've got it and it's not going away. The only thing we can do is slow its spread."

"Stay the hell away" is my version of a gun under every pillow.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

First, BC could designate the fuel stops where transiting boaters are allowed to refuel and take on water. Those spots would be in places that don’t present a risk of harm to isolated communities. No stops would be allowed in other than specifically designated sites, and operators could be prohibited from stepping beyond the fuel dock.

Second, transiting boaters could be required to fly a Quarantine Flag during their entire transit to clearly indicate their mission and to make it easy for RCMP and CG to recognize stragglers and cheaters.

Instead of revelling in the consequences of this pandemic, as a certain TF member

Good idea. For me the stop over would be Port McNeill.

 

[Kawini]

I figure that allowing refueling in the following ports would be sufficient:

Nanaimo/Campbell River
Port McNeill
Port Hardy
Prince Rupert

Personally, I have enough range to make it through Canada without stopping for fuel or water. But allowing refueling at those four places ONLY would presumably be adequate for any boaters moving through.

 

[soin2la]

I figure that allowing refueling in the following ports would be sufficient:

Nanaimo/Campbell River
Port McNeill
Port Hardy
Prince Rupert

Personally, I have enough range to make it through Canada without stopping for fuel or water. But allowing refueling at those four places ONLY would presumably be adequate for any boaters moving through.

Not going to happen. Even though you added Campbell River while I was typing, other marine fuel venders enroute from the WA border to Prince Rupert would scream bloddy murder and you are only accomodating the rich and famous.

And why Port McNeill AND Port Hardy?

 

[Northern Spy]

A certain BC political party loves to incite xenophobic fears and point blame to their neighbors (The US and Alberta) to enrage their core voter.

The typical magicians slieght of hand to keep the media engaged with an issue the politicians create, instead of one the journalist might find.

Like our dismal track record on immunizations, perhaps.

I wouldn't count on water travel through BC if it were a Provincial decision. But it is a Federal decision. So I think things will get better if, come spring, we see a budding Biden-Trudeau bromance. If we are lucky, maybe they have the same sock haberdashery.

 

[Kawini]

Soin2la-

I look forward to giving you a hardy and healthy salute as I pass you by this coming spring. Since I will not be transmitting AIS from my 48 foot boat, I’ll have to look for you! If you send me your general location, I’ll wave as we pass by and we can check each other out with binocs! Can’t wait to work on these wonderful trans-border relationships!

(The idea was Nanaimo OR Campbell River to be designated. Which do you think makes more sense? I’m definitely open to suggestions!)

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Not going to happen. Even though you added Campbell River while I was typing, other marine fuel venders enroute from the WA border to Prince Rupert would scream bloddy murder and you are only accomodating the rich and famous.

And why Port McNeill AND Port Hardy?

Sorry buddy of the north. This past summer there were American recreational boats that stopped for fuel and supplies in B.C. IAW the Canadian Boarder rules and regulations.

Soin2la-

I look forward to giving you a hardy and healthy salute as I pass you by this coming spring. Since I will not be transmitting AIS from my 48 foot boat, I’ll have to look for you! If you send me your general location, I’ll wave as we pass by and we can check each other out with binocs! Can’t wait to work on these wonderful trans-border relationships!

(The idea was Nanaimo OR Campbell River to be designated. Which do you think makes more sense? I’m definitely open to suggestions!)

Kawini, we can make it a flotilla as we pass!!!

Come on soin2la, crack a smile, its OK. I'll still drink an AA (Alaskan Amber) with you. I'll pass the bottle over to your boat with my fishing net!!!!

 

[soin2la]

This past summer there were American recreational boats that stopped for fuel and supplies in B.C. IAW the Canadian Boarder rules and regulations.

The comment was playing favorites with fuel vendors, not what last years boaters did or didn't do.

Why have four designated pumps in the southern 250 miles and only one in the northern 500? Shearwater won't like that.
And why discriminate against all the small boats?

Your fish net? You mean the one your wife lets you use to land all her fish?

 

[Kawini]

Well, Soin2la, if you think Shearwater is a better idea than Prince Rupert then maybe we should all go with that. It works for me. I'm unfamiliar with Shearwater, and I was looking for places that could not be considered "small isolated communities with very lean health care facilities." If Shearwater isn't in that category, you probably have a really good idea.

Also, I'm a little confused. Are you saying that the BC fuel vendors WANT to be selling fuel to American boaters this upcoming cruising season, or are you saying that they do NOT WANT to be selling fuel during the upcoming season. I was under the impression that your sense is that American boaters are not welcome at Canadian fuel docks. So wouldn't Shearwater be pleased that it was NOT on the list of approved fueling sites for American boaters? Or are the vendors in Shearwater unusually avaricious?

Thanks again!

 

[soin2la]

Lawdy, lawdy, so many Chubby Checker fans here today.

I’m asking why, if you are going to designate those fuel stops, how do you explain that rationale to Sidney, Comox and Westview for example? How do you explain four depots in 250 miles and one in 500?

But then, how many American boaters can honestly claim & prove essential travel?

 

[Kawini]

I think you're missing the point. None of us are claiming that our transit through BC is essential. That would not be honest. We are acknowledging that our transit is entirely recreational. Currently, as you know, the CBSA allows such transits for recreational purposes.

And, again, I need to point out your inconsistencies: you state that fuel vendors DO NOT want American boats at their docks and at the same time you state that fuel vendors DO want American boats at their docks. I assume that there is no blanket answer to that question, but that the answer is a function on the specific circumstances in each locality.

At bottom, what I find interesting is that we presumably all share a passion for boating. What I'm doing is looking for a way in which American boaters can pursue their passion without posing any risk of harm to Canadians. It's called "looking for a solution." Your bizarre and contorted insistence that no solution exists makes me sort of sad.

I am curious about one thing though, and sincerely. What do you know about the American "cheaters" -- as you call them -- who violated the CBSA's rules this last season? How many of them where there? Where were they apprehended? What were the circumstances? Let's have a fact-based discussion. If there are more cheaters out there than I'm aware of -- and I've heard of three cases tops -- I'm happy to reconsider my deliberations on this issue.

 

[soin2la]

I Currently, as you know, the CBSA allows such transits for recreational purposes.

No they do not. Last year someone here reproduced NW Explorations’ work around; they called it something like a commercial relocation.

I need to point out your inconsistencies: you state that fuel vendors DO NOT want American boats at their docks and at the same time you state that fuel vendors DO want American boats at their docks. Your bizarre and contorted insistence that no solution exists makes me sort of sad.

My gag reflex is overwhelmed with the words you are stuffing in my mouth.

 

[DDW]

No they do not.

Is that true? From the CBSA website:

Transit through Canadian waters
You currently cannot enter Canadian waters for optional reasons, such as:

touring
sightseeing
pleasure fishing

You may still navigate through international or Canadian waters while in transit directly from one place outside Canada to another place outside Canada, if the transit is:

direct
continuous/uninterrupted
by the most reasonable route

That is written a little ambiguously, not clear if the second paragraph is qualified by the first or excepts the first. The difference terminology suggests the latter ("enter" vs. "navigate through"). A number of people did it this year abiding by those rules (and some, like the NW debacle, did not). I can easily make it from Anacortes to Ketchikan without refueling. Anchoring is specifically allowed for weather or darkness, provided no soil is touched.

 

[Kawini]

As the prior poster just noted, current CBSA rules permit transits through Canadian waters to Alaska. The specific rule states as follows:

"You may still navigate through international or Canadian waters while in transit directly from one place outside Canada to another place outside Canada, if the transit is:

direct
continuous/uninterrupted
by the most reasonable route"

A link to the CBSA page, which notes that the policy was updated last month, is here:

https://travel.gc.ca/travel-covid/travel-restrictions/border#waters

There is, of course, a possibility that this provision may be modified in advance of this year's cruising season. We all need to be staying on top of current rules and regulations as we plan our transits this year. I'd recommend researching the issue with the CBSA, and NOT relying on Soin2la's nonsense.

 

[SteveK]

As the prior poster just noted, current CBSA rules permit transits through Canadian waters to Alaska. The specific rule states as follows:

"You may still navigate through international or Canadian waters while in transit directly from one place outside Canada to another place outside Canada, if the transit is:

direct
continuous/uninterrupted
by the most reasonable route"

A link to the CBSA page, which notes that the policy was updated last month, is here:

https://travel.gc.ca/travel-covid/travel-restrictions/border#waters

There is, of course, a possibility that this provision may be modified in advance of this year's cruising season. We all need to be staying on top of current rules and regulations as we plan our transits this year. I'd recommend researching the issue with the CBSA, and NOT relying on Soin2la's nonsense.

It continues to say
You may stop and anchor out of ordinary navigation, particularly if it becomes dangerous to navigate at night or if the crew must rest before safely continuing your trip.

If you anchor to spend the night, you must quarantine on your vessel or boat. If this is not possible, you may quarantine at a hotel until you are ready to resume your trip.

 

[Kawini]

Sorry, I just have to say again:

All of us who are here are passionate about boating. I wish, Soin2la, that you would stop posting misinformation about current travel restrictions. Maybe we need a "fake news" moderator here on TF, a la Twitter.

Also Soin2la, I really am curious about the extent of American "cheaters" in Canadian waters. Do you have any information that you can share with us?

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

The comment was playing favorites with fuel vendors, not what last years boaters did or didn't do.

Why have four designated pumps in the southern 250 miles and only one in the northern 500? Shearwater won't like that.
And why discriminate against all the small boats?

Your fish net? You mean the one your wife lets you use to land all her fish?

Oh no, you have been secretly discussing fishing with Crusty!! But facts are facts and the Admiral is a MUCH better fisher than I.

As far as Shearwater, I had to refuel there one time as I didn't top off in K-Town. Never ever again, except in an emergency. Very very expensive.

 

[Portage_Bay]

re post #51

Perhaps "enter" is used in the sense of entering Canada through customs? Which would give you the privileges accorded visitors in normal times.

 

[Okydowky]

Soin2la-

I look forward to giving you a hardy and healthy salute as I pass you by this coming spring. Since I will not be transmitting AIS from my 48 foot boat, I’ll have to look for you! If you send me your general location, I’ll wave as we pass by and we can check each other out with binocs! Can’t wait to work on these wonderful trans-border relationships!

(The idea was Nanaimo OR Campbell River to be designated. Which do you think makes more sense? I’m definitely open to suggestions!)

Well if you and your boat are all that why don’t you transit the outside and by pass us Canadians that live in igloos EH! Give it up and let this Covid **** pass us all!

 

[Kawini]

I’ll take my cues from the Canadian government, thanks!

If the Canadian government requires that I run up the outside, then that’s what I’ll have to do. I recognize that this is a possibility, so I spoke with a delivery captain about this a few days ago. (Personally, I don’t feel that I have the competence - and certainly not the confidence - to make a non-stop outside run.)

If you, Owky, or others are interested, he ballparked the cost of the delivery from Anacortes to Ketchikan at around $6k (including fuel) barring weather delays.

 

[Al]

"Instead of revelling in the consequences of this pandemic, as a certain TF member appears to do, why not start looking for practical and safe solutions that facilitate transit?"

BINGO!!

Here is a bit of reason and common sense. As a contrarian on the subject from an objection of the demonstrated desire for overall control by the selected liberal elites, the goal to punish or deny the desires of others by using the fear of a flu is insane. Masks and social distancing has not proven to be much more than a further example of 'Force'.

https://townhall.com/columnists/scottmorefield/2020/09/14/if-masks-work-why-dont-they-work-n2576139

Actually, based on the attitude presented by Canadian posters, one (me specifically) would take the attitude the 'Canooks', dislike and disparage Americans traversing Canadian waters under any circumstance, this flu just a current mode of complaint release. Tragic were that the case. Challenging where acquaintances are involved.
I trust when travel is allowed under new dictates, social decorum reflected by the smiles of commerce and industry suppling American travelers will again prevail.

Myself? At 81 I will continue to rely on a substantial daily dose of quality CBD products to prevent contracting this or any flu.:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/emilye...nnabis-as-covid-19-treatment/?sh=38815b82382d

Cheers- Al-Ketchikan

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. A. "...substantial daily dose of quality CBD products." Aaahhh...I understand it all now...