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Old 06-27-2017, 09:57 PM   #61
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Dave:
Wow! What a day. Sorry I waited till now to read about it, not that I could have helped. By this time, my wife would have plane reservations made for an alternate holiday. I hope yours is like you and not at all rattled by the turn of events. I also hope the solution lies in removing and re-fitting the injector lines.
By this time I would have the valve covers off and run the engine a little to see if there was any visible spray, but you are probably wise to wait for the mechanic, who will likely start with something to check for an obvious leak.
Best of luck with the repair.
We were out boating in "Non Wifi" zones, my excuse for being so late to this thread. Hope to see you successfully motoring past within a couple of weeks. Let me ( and other Dave-watchers) know when the journey begins.
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Old 06-27-2017, 10:10 PM   #62
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By this time I would have the valve covers off and run the engine a little to see if there was any visible spray, but you are probably wise to wait for the mechanic, who will likely start with something to check for an obvious leak.
Best of luck with the repair.
I'm not that tempted since my understanding of diesel engines only extends as far using the green handle to refuel.
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Old 06-28-2017, 12:03 AM   #63
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At least my wife made me a sandwich.
Well, anyway, what kind of sandwich was it?
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Old 06-28-2017, 05:59 AM   #64
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I'm not that tempted since my understanding of diesel engines only extends as far using the green handle to refuel.
Be careful if you come east, no all marinas are diligent about handle color or putting it in the tank versus a rod holder....

One thing for everyone, but not necessarily for everytime you have an issue where shutting down versus keep going for single engine guys.....

If not completely out of harms way as far as drifting or anchor not setting goes, a very good marine engineer passed along that idling with only 10 psi oil pressure might have been better than risking grounding or worse. Now we werent there, and concern about a lot of fuel in the crankcase may swaythe option too.

I had a dampner plate come apart in a small busy creek only a few hundred yards short a good anchorage. If the smoke alarm in the engine room hadnt gone off, I may have continued despite the racket coming from the engine. Tough decision in retrospect, one symtom over shadowed the other. Wound up driving the boat another 600 miles before the broken spring ultimately jammed the flywheel....but was nice that I made it back to Jersey and home dock.
So continuing to a safe anchorage could have easily been done.

As we all get experience the hard or easy way, making those tough decisions can pop up at any time and drawing from similar, previous experiences is interesting. Finding out the bottom line here will also be interesting...... to see how it could have affected the decision to not restart or restart and power to deeper water once it git tight.

I can empathize with that tough decision.
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Old 06-28-2017, 06:23 AM   #65
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Be careful if you come east, no all marinas are diligent about handle color or putting it in the tank versus a rod holder....

One thing for everyone, but not necessarily for everytime you have an issue where shutting down versus keep going for single engine guys.....

If nor completely out of harms way as far as drifting or anchor not setting goes, a very good marine engineer passec along that idling with only 10 psi oil pressure might have been better than risking grounding or worse. Now we werent there, and concern about a lot of fuel in the crankcase may swaythe option too.

I had a dampner plate come apart in a small busy creek only a few hundred yards short a good anchorage. If the smoke alarm in the engine room hadnt gone off, I may have continued despite the racket coming from the engine. Tough decision in retrospect, one symtom over shadowed the other. Wound up driving the boat another 600 miles before the broken spring ultimately jammed the flywheel....but was nice that I made it back to Jersey and home dock.
So continuing to a safe anchorage could have easily been done.

As we all get experience the hard or easy way, making those tough decisions can pop up at any time and drawing from similar, previous experiences is interesting. Finding out the bottom line here will also be interesting...... to see how it could have affected the decision to not restart or restart and power to deeper water once it git tight.

I can empathize with that tough decision.
There is a lot to think about in this post, Paul offers good advice.
I too would caution about blindly picking up the green fuel nozzle. While recently driving 13,000 miles around the country in a diesel pickup, I'd estimate that at least 10% of the time the "green is diesel" standard is ignored. We have seen it in marinas too...
Be careful what hose you pick up!
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Old 06-28-2017, 09:28 AM   #66
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There is a lot to think about in this post, Paul offers good advice.
I too would caution about blindly picking up the green fuel nozzle. While recently driving 13,000 miles around the country in a diesel pickup, I'd estimate that at least 10% of the time the "green is diesel" standard is ignored. We have seen it in marinas too...
Be careful what hose you pick up!
Bruce

Including "green" color... For severely color blind persons... Should have words Gas or Diesel boldly stamped or taped or embedded onto noticeable portion of nozzle.

In most regards... Our son-in-law is black and white color blind... much is grey.
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Old 06-28-2017, 09:46 AM   #67
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Well, this is unfortunate...

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One thing for everyone, but not necessarily for everytime you have an issue where shutting down versus keep going for single engine guys.....

If not completely out of harms way as far as drifting or anchor not setting goes, a very good marine engineer passed along that idling with only 10 psi oil pressure might have been better than risking grounding or worse. Now we werent there, and concern about a lot of fuel in the crankcase may swaythe option too.

Good point. Initially, I had pointed myself out towards the middle of the channel to get away from shore. I considered heading back to the harbor but with a strong ebb current I wasn't going to be able to get through the Harbor entrance anyway at idle.

My hope was that being in the back eddy, I would simply go around in a circle waiting for the tow. That would have worked but then the wind picked up out of the North and started pushing me towards the point that causes the eddy.

I was just about at the point where I was going to fire up the engine and move further away from shore to reset the anchor, but about that time was able to spot the two boat coming my way.
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Old 06-28-2017, 10:22 AM   #68
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Good point. Initially, I had pointed myself out towards the middle of the channel to get away from shore. I considered heading back to the harbor but with a strong ebb current I wasn't going to be able to get through the Harbor entrance anyway at idle.

My hope was that being in the back eddy, I would simply go around in a circle waiting for the tow. That would have worked but then the wind picked up out of the North and started pushing me towards the point that causes the eddy.

I was just about at the point where I was going to fire up the engine and move further away from shore to reset the anchor, but about that time was able to spot the two boat coming my way.
With situations such as they were and a myriad of what ifs immediately thrust on your plate... I feel you did just fine!

Recalling and in comparison to the "balancing boat" avatar photo you used... Your Boat Loves You!
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Old 06-28-2017, 03:44 PM   #69
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There is another concern with continuing to run with fuel getting in the oil that goes beyond low oil pressure and lubrication.

If the oil/fuel level gets too high the engine can start to ingest the oil/fuel mixture resulting in a run away engine. That would have likely cost you the engine, so you successfully dodged that bullet by shutting down.
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Old 06-28-2017, 04:28 PM   #70
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That is the big gamble..... with operating a single engine boat and hoping failures are only at good moments or you have to be extraordinarily careful where you put your boat all the time.

Fortunately real emergencies for single engines are few and far between.
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Old 06-28-2017, 05:16 PM   #71
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Well done so far, Dave.

It should be fairly straight forward from here. Diesel in the crankcase can only come from a couple different sources. Your mechanic should have it sorted out without too much problem.

A much better find than coolant in the crankcase.
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Old 06-28-2017, 05:42 PM   #72
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Dave- I understand you are not a gear head, so I want to give this advice: Diesel in fuel likely came from some sort of error in fiddling with the injectors. Sounds like the shop will come down and sort that with no fuss. The concern remains whether there was damage to bearings etc due to the dilution. They will fix the leak and change the oil and start the engine and listen to it. Engine may sound fine in that check. But there still could be damage, and that damage may not show itself until many hours under load are logged.

You need to protect yourself by keeping good documentation as to what occurred and what fixes were made. Explain to them that you are concerned about bearing damage.
See how they react. If bearings go in six months, these guys are still on the hook. How to handle that should it occur is a little out of my league. But understand that such damage is a possibility.

It could be engine is just fine after the fix, but do protect yourself should it be not. If nothing goes wrong in a year of service, you should be in the clear.
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Old 06-28-2017, 09:09 PM   #73
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I had some more engine work done on Friday. The mechanics was happy that he had solved all my problems. We went out today to take advantage of the nice weather.

The engine started just fine, the old pressure came up and we motored out of our harbor. We are deep in the harbor and it is a no wake zoom so it takes a good 15-20 minutes to get out. Things were fine and I throttled up to about 1800 rpm and we were cruising along nicely for about 10 minutes. Then the oil pressure alarm went off.

I throttled back and got pointed away from the shore (was hugging the shore to get a back eddy) and then shit it down. Everything looked fine in the ER but a check of the dipstick showed what looks to me like a lot of fuel in the oil.

Tried to start it up again and the oil pressure only came to 10psi. I for a few minutes at idle in gear to get me into some deeper water and then shit it down again.

Called BoatUS for a tow but they are busy on this hot and sunny day. They should be here in about 1.5 hours. I am drifting South currently in a back eddy in 70 ( make that 50 and shallowing quickly) feet of water. If the current doesn't kick me back towards the main channel I will have to drop the anchor.

At least my wife made me a sandwich.

Goodness Dave, sorry to hear. I'd agree with the others on your ability to stay calm. I certainly would be way too stressed to be posting photos on TF, that's for sure! Regardless of whether you could have done this or that different, you did pretty well on the whole! Hope you get your engine issues sorted out quickly!

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Old 06-29-2017, 03:28 PM   #74
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Dave- I understand you are not a gear head, so I want to give this advice: Diesel in fuel likely came from some sort of error in fiddling with the injectors. Sounds like the shop will come down and sort that with no fuss. The concern remains whether there was damage to bearings etc due to the dilution. They will fix the leak and change the oil and start the engine and listen to it. Engine may sound fine in that check. But there still could be damage, and that damage may not show itself until many hours under load are logged.

You need to protect yourself by keeping good documentation as to what occurred and what fixes were made. Explain to them that you are concerned about bearing damage.
See how they react. If bearings go in six months, these guys are still on the hook. How to handle that should it occur is a little out of my league. But understand that such damage is a possibility.

It could be engine is just fine after the fix, but do protect yourself should it be not. If nothing goes wrong in a year of service, you should be in the clear.


Thanks Ski,

I will talk to the mechanic tomorrow when he is on the boat and then talk to the marine service manager at the shop as well.

Are there any types of checks that could be done now and then follow-ups done in another 100 hours to see if this may be the case?
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Old 06-29-2017, 04:08 PM   #75
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You might want to consider putting your insurance company on notice of the situation. I had a similar situation two years ago. The mechanic that installed my new high output Balmar alternator decided to remove one of my crankcase breathers as it was in the way. The crankcase over pressured and drove all the oil out of the engine while I was running. The yard played dumb at the beginning. Turns out last winter I had to rebuild the engine. The insurance covered it and subrogated back to the yards insurance. Yes it was covered due to third party damage. The bill was about $25K all in. I'm not saying your yard won't look after you but faced with a rebuild cost they might just backpeddle a bit, especially a year or two from now.
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Old 06-29-2017, 04:43 PM   #76
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If bearings are rated for 10,000 hours, you may have used up 2500 hours in 4 or 5 hours of running with diluted oil. Mains and rod bearings are the critical ones. Wear might have polished the cylinder walls a little more (they should have a honed finish).
There is no way to tell how much wear resulted.

Is is a good idea to keep contemporaneous notes regarding the events. eg, a ships log. Record everything you can think of. Record every thing mechanic tells you. Print out this thread. Notes may come in handy if your engine needs a rebuild in 500 hours and yard refuses to ante up. They're admissible in a civil trial.
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Old 06-30-2017, 01:21 PM   #77
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Well, the mechanic just left. This time I got the senior marine guy. He started out by telling me that he doesn't plan on making any attempt to fix the boat today, instead he wants to take an oil sample, take photos, and try to figure out the extent of any damage. Disappointing, but definitely the right move.

He wasn't able to get his borescope into the cylinders (just a bit too big as he suspected it would be). After looking at the top of the pistons, the injectors, and everything else he could his recommendation is to replace the engine. He said that they could very likely replaced the head and get it running but he doesn't think it would run as well as it had before all this started and that likely its lifespan is now significantly shortened.

He doesn't make the final decision. He has already talked to the marine service manager who concurs, now the marine service manager has to get approval from the top and then find an engine. It is there hope and plan to be able to get it all done by the time my vacation comes around in August. The biggest wrinkle will be finding a yard that can pull the engine during this busy season.

I expect to here back from the service manager Monday for a plan, then start trying to find a yard. As it turns out, my sailboat is scheduled for a haul out and some work in a couple weeks. If need be I can see if the yard can swap boats.

I am more than a little disappointed, however I can't complain at all so far about the attitude of Cummins Northwest. They are working hard to resolve the problem as thoroughly as they can. I'd rather have it done right than done quickly.
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Old 06-30-2017, 01:45 PM   #78
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Dave: What a bummer. Replace the engine? Is this under warrenty?
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Old 06-30-2017, 01:53 PM   #79
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Well, this is unfortunate...

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Dave: What a bummer. Replace the engine? Is this under warrenty?

While they aren't saying a lot, the implication is that it was their fault and therefore their responsibility to fix it. The mechanic specifically said that it wasn't his place to denigrate his fellow mechanics that worked on the boat, but that he just wants to make sure that I am made right.

Bottom line, I'm not paying anything.
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Old 06-30-2017, 02:07 PM   #80
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Good grief. Boat mechanics scare me even more now.

Sorry for the troubles...
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