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Old 05-12-2020, 12:53 PM   #21
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Yes it is connected to the intake side and before the sea water pump.
There is a T connection under the water filter to which a small 1/2 inch pipe is connected to the shaft seal. So when engine is running it draws water from the main water pick up and from the shaft seal through the small pipe.
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Old 05-12-2020, 01:12 PM   #22
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My shaft water cooling line has a t which splits the water. One side goes to the shaft, the other to a pisser out the side. I can look over the edge and see water coming out. That tells me the shaft on that side is getting water.
In addition I also have a temp alarm (Borel) on my exhaust and a water flow alarm between the cooling water strainer and the raw water pump.
I hope I have all the bases covered by now. Figured Murphy would show up at some point.
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Old 05-12-2020, 01:44 PM   #23
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wwestman,
We have similar cooling and alarm setups except the split shaft seal line and I only have a single engine. Alarms are the same.
According to PYI literature, you don't need the water flow at lower speeds (rpms). They even discuss this in there installation documents. So for us, running at 7-8 knots and between 1200 - 1400 rpm most of the time, the water isn't that big of an issue. However, like others, I check the seal using both an IR gun and by touch every trip just to ensure that there is flow. We do run up the rpms for periods of time to "clean it out", so then the water flow is needed.
The "water take off point" for the shaft seal on my boat is at the transmission cooler. The only previous item where heat is transferred is the aftercooler, so the raw water is not really heated up much at this point.
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Old 05-12-2020, 04:24 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by ismar1 View Post
Yes it is connected to the intake side and before the sea water pump.
There is a T connection under the water filter to which a small 1/2 inch pipe is connected to the shaft seal. So when engine is running it draws water from the main water pick up and from the shaft seal through the small pipe.
Interesting. In other words, the water flow is reversed, i.e. with water picked from the wet side of the shaft seal, and contributing to feed the engine cooling through the pipe connected to the main pick up?
I never heard of such setup, and I suspect that its capacity to draw water from the hull entry of a rotating shaft might be the opposite of what logically necessary, i.e. progressively lower as speed increases.
What sort of speed can the boat reach?
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Old 05-13-2020, 05:50 AM   #25
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I understand how why the dripless seals solved a problem decades ago , but wonder why folks put up with the risk and maint required today?

A modern packing in an ancient designed stuffing box can frequently go years with out requiring an adjustment.

With no danger from sinking from a not replaced on sked rubber bellows or tiny plastic tubing.

Why bother when better is OTS. ?
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Old 05-13-2020, 07:23 AM   #26
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Hello,
I notice that most shaft seals are connected to the exit end of the cooling sea water circuit. on my boat the water feed to the shaft seals is connected to the water intake end . Any thoughts whether this functions just as good or not ? Up to now I never had any issues but than I`ve only had the boat for a year .
Interesting.

What brand and model of shaft seal does the vessel have installed? Do you routinely check the temperature with an IR gun when cruising? If so how many degrees above water temperature?
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Old 05-13-2020, 07:54 AM   #27
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I understand how why the dripless seals solved a problem decades ago , but wonder why folks put up with the risk and maint required today?

A modern packing in an ancient designed stuffing box can frequently go years with out requiring an adjustment.

With no danger from sinking from a not replaced on sked rubber bellows or tiny plastic tubing.

Why bother when better is OTS. ?


Because I want a dry bulge.
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Old 05-13-2020, 10:26 AM   #28
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Because I want a dry bulge.


Ahem!
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Old 05-13-2020, 11:45 AM   #29
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Tides Marine shaft seals have redundancy. Not only the standard feed out of the exhaust cooling water, but a crossfeed to the other shaft seal. I do believe the lip type seal is less tolerant of a loss of cooling water.
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Old 05-13-2020, 12:47 PM   #30
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K.I.S.S I don't mean to be offensive but why oh why do some guys overcomplicate things.

I'm also an advocate of K.I.S.S., packing shaft seals work just fine on my twin Volvos, and my 34 year old ferro-resonant battery charger still charges the batteries, without the hassles of an inverter. No Xantex horror stories on this boat.
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Old 05-13-2020, 12:53 PM   #31
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I'm also an advocate of K.I.S.S., packing shaft seals work just fine on my twin Volvos, and my 34 year old ferro-resonant battery charger still charges the batteries, without the hassles of an inverter. No Xantex horror stories on this boat.
I wasn't aware that dripless shaft seals or inverters were complicated for the benefits derived. Of course I've only been boating since the late 50s.
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Old 05-13-2020, 01:05 PM   #32
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Not that have or would have a dripless shaft seal aboard; but I think your PO added unnecessary complication and two or more pinch points to each feed and perhaps yellow brass or plastic fittings and improper hose below the W/L. KISS
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Old 05-13-2020, 01:43 PM   #33
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An exhaust temp alarm tells you if there is water reaching the exhaust. That may be a surrogate for the shaft seal, but it isn't a perfect one. Much depends on the points of failure in the rest of the system. I do not have a flow sensor, but intend to install one as I've had an issue with the forward cutlass bearing seizing up, perhaps from lack of flow. There are many flow sensor types, it would be important to pick one that cannot block the flow as a failure mode, and these are certainly available.

I also intend to install a temp sensor on the cutlass bearing housing which is very near the Tides seal. Since on my boat the water comes from the exit of the transmission cooler, and is therefore somewhat warm, either a rise in temp or a drop in temp would indicate a problem.
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Old 05-13-2020, 01:53 PM   #34
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An exhaust temp alarm tells you if there is water reaching the exhaust. That may be a surrogate for the shaft seal, but it isn't a perfect one. Much depends on the points of failure in the rest of the system. I do not have a flow sensor, but intend to install one as I've had an issue with the forward cutlass bearing seizing up, perhaps from lack of flow. There are many flow sensor types, it would be important to pick one that cannot block the flow as a failure mode, and these are certainly available.

I also intend to install a temp sensor on the cutlass bearing housing which is very near the Tides seal. Since on my boat the water comes from the exit of the transmission cooler, and is therefore somewhat warm, either a rise in temp or a drop in temp would indicate a problem.

Wouldn't it make sense to install a regular packing gland that you don't even have to think about from one decade to the next? If you insist on a dry bilge put a pan w/ a small pump under it?
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Old 05-13-2020, 02:30 PM   #35
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Interesting. In other words, the water flow is reversed, i.e. with water picked from the wet side of the shaft seal, and contributing to feed the engine cooling through the pipe connected to the main pick up?
I never heard of such setup, and I suspect that its capacity to draw water from the hull entry of a rotating shaft might be the opposite of what logically necessary, i.e. progressively lower as speed increases.
What sort of speed can the boat reach?
Yes that is the situation. Reason why I asked for your views as at times it worries me. However at higher rpm the sea water pump would be sucking up larger amounts of water.
The seal is PSS and boat cruises at 15 and max 19 knt.
At times I`ve checked by hand at various speeds warm but never hot, though it takes me 30-50 sec till I put in neutral and do the check.
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Old 05-13-2020, 03:25 PM   #36
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Yup, I appreciate that the higher pump rotation demands a higher flow.
But I'm puzzled by what must happen on the external side of the shaft seal, for two reasons:
1) the shaft rotation, that "shuffles" the water flow, and
2) the backward direction of the water flow, which is the opposite of the path that the water should take to enter the shaft seal.

Now, on paper, I would think that both these effects should "resist" the pump suction, to some extent. And even more so as speed increases.
In this respect, 15+ kts is a respectable speed, in the ballpark of water coming out under pressure from an irrigation hose.
So, it's as if your boat would try to suck water from such hose, but with the pickup oriented in the same direction as the flow, if you see what I mean.

Have you ever had a chance to see if in some other Belliure boats there is the same setup?
I've never been on one, but I've seen boats of many other builders, and I'm pretty sure to have never come across such solution.
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Old 05-13-2020, 03:29 PM   #37
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We put PSS logs in a previous boat. They were ok. This boat has the traditional logs. It had GFO packing in it and it did not leak at all anytime. So I am sticking with them and just rebuilt one and again used GFO packing. It isnít nearly as tight as it was with the old packing but it isnít leaking now. So I see no advantage to going to dripless shaft logs.
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Old 05-13-2020, 03:43 PM   #38
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Unfortunately no I have not seen any other Belliures.
A while ago I had another boat with a similar shaft seal but in this one, instead of the small pipe being connected to the engine intake, it was connected to an underwater through hull seacock. Boat cruised at 22knt, had it for 10y with no issues
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Old 05-13-2020, 04:04 PM   #39
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I had my dripless shaft seal hose partially plug at the hose barb on shaft seal. A piece of shell caught on the hose barb edge and other bits collected on top of it. Not a total blockage. When I serviced the freshwater cooling system, I pulled the heat exchanger tube bundle out. The hose is connected to the front end cap. When I went to reassemble everything, I tried to blow through it and had very little flow, which led to the investigation.

My solution is to put a small strainer in the hose to catch trash and add a floating piece of plastic in the strainer on the up stream side. The idea is to see the plastic dance in the flow. I'll post some pics when I get done over engineering it.

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Old 05-13-2020, 07:06 PM   #40
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We put PSS logs in a previous boat. They were ok. This boat has the traditional logs. It had GFO packing in it and it did not leak at all anytime. So I am sticking with them and just rebuilt one and again used GFO packing. It isnít nearly as tight as it was with the old packing but it isnít leaking now. So I see no advantage to going to dripless shaft logs.

I concur...how many feet (yards) of packing could I buy for the price of two dripless seals?
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