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Old 12-18-2017, 05:15 AM   #21
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I replaced my tanks over 4 years ago, one was weeping and another was about to go so I did all four. Never used any additives since, and never had any problems. But I do use the boat. I've put 23,000 litres through it since then.

The condensation myth is over-rated I think. I am also in Brisbane, so Florida-equivalent climate. Make sure you can't get water entry though bad o-rings at your fill points and you will likely never get any noticeable water in your fuel tanks. And if no water then there is no algae, since they live in the water and consume fuel at the water/fuel interface for their energy needs. So, if you are getting algae then fix the water ingress point rather than treating the symptom with biocide!

Now, I have always fueled either in USA or Australia, and have never gotten a bad fill. I planned for fills in developing countries so I do run day tanks, where the only way fuel gets to the day tank is via my fuel polisher. But the polisher is still on its original Racor filters, and the needle is still way below threshold level, and no water in the bowls. After 23,00 litres. I have changed the engine Racors a couple of times and they are finer micron, but I don't think it was necessary. Basically I think additives are completely unnecessary.
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Old 12-18-2017, 07:39 AM   #22
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For those of us with tank farm experience the condensation and collection of water from tank farm operation are varied and measurable. The high desert country of Nevada not so much new tank wall water shows up. In the humid US Midwest considerable. But tank farms have very large tanks in comparison to our small boats with hundreds of meters of walls and thousands of tons of diesel.

Anecdotally yes, but two posts here from Brisbane diverge on the effects of condensation, or better said yes and no. Lots of room for discussion in boat small tanks leading of course to the marketing of additives.

All this said three questions seem apparent.

1. Do additives negate the need for cleaning tanks? Or,
2. Do clean tanks negate the need for additives? Or,
3. Does higher fuel turnover keep tanks clean (enough) and negate the need for additives?

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Old 12-18-2017, 07:55 AM   #23
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Where can I purchase o'rings for 1 3/4 deck fill?
I got water in the Raycor bowl, tech said is was condensate, as he cleaned the bowl. Another tech, upon questioning, said he thought it was condensate too. I think the rain and hurricane are suspect.
Previously I had added a additive to control the algae. After he cleaned the bowl, I added Biobor. It was the only additive that claim to control water.
I smile because I have aluminum fuel tanks.
I do wish there was a drain in each tank but also understand why not.
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Old 12-18-2017, 08:05 AM   #24
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Where can I purchase o'rings for 1 3/4 deck fill?
With old "0" ring in hand go to Napa. Match OD, ID and rubber thickness.
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Old 12-18-2017, 08:07 AM   #25
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Where can I purchase o'rings for 1 3/4 deck fill?
I got water in the Raycor bowl, tech said is was condensate, as he cleaned the bowl. Another tech, upon questioning, said he thought it was condensate too. I think the rain and hurricane are suspect.
Previously I had added a additive to control the algae. After he cleaned the bowl, I added Biobor. It was the only additive that claim to control water.
I smile because I have aluminum fuel tanks.
I do wish there was a drain in each tank but also understand why not.
Hey OD,

Go sign up on the American Tug owners group. From there, you can download the "Owner Experiences" document (huge, valuable). Maybe you already have it.

Anyway, I remember a McMaster-Carr part number referenced in there for the deck fill O-rings.

I don't have my AT34 anymore, and can't get to my documentation right now......

Ray
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Old 12-18-2017, 09:55 AM   #26
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Where can I purchase o'rings for 1 3/4 deck fill?
I got water in the Raycor bowl, tech said is was condensate, as he cleaned the bowl. Another tech, upon questioning, said he thought it was condensate too. I think the rain and hurricane are suspect.
Previously I had added a additive to control the algae. After he cleaned the bowl, I added Biobor. It was the only additive that claim to control water.
I smile because I have aluminum fuel tanks.
I do wish there was a drain in each tank but also understand why not.
If you go to Harbor Freight. You can purchase a box of rubber o rings (assortment of sizes) for like 8 bucks that will last you and you kids the rest of your lives Great to have around.
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Old 12-18-2017, 10:43 AM   #27
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Time to fill up my fuel tanks for the first time since purchase. GB 42' with original 300 gallon tanks port and starboard that feed 30 year old Ford Lehman 135's (4200hours) and a Westerbeke 8KW generator (1200 hours). I had the tanks cleaned and fuel polished about 8 running hours ago. Tanks in awesome shape and of course I want to keep them that way. PO said he kept the tanks full as much as possible and suggested I do the same. With the shape the tanks are in I don't have much ammo to go against his suggestion. The tank guy added FPPF Marine Diesel Fuel Treatment to the 300 gallons or so that he put back in. He swears it gets rid of the water basically. Or allows it to be dispersed/absorbed and make it's way through the engine. He made me raise my right hand and swear that I would continue to do the same as well as use a bio treatment which he deemed a necessity here in South Florida. OK.

I don't want to start another additive war thread or anything and I have searched a lot on this subject before posting but I am trying to sort out a couple of things.

I bought another quart of the FPPF but it was relatively hard to find. If I am going to use it I would prefer to use something I can walk into WM or BOW or similar and buy. Any suggestions? I have searched and find a few wonder products but I'm not a big fan of all of the claimed benefits in additional to helping with water i.e. increased cetane, lubricity, etc. It seems to me, might be wrong, that the FPPF's claim to fame is simply its effect on water in the tanks which for some reason is more appealing to me.

On the biotreatment, seems there are several that are more well thought of. Biobor for one which is easily available. I am assuming that there is nothing wrong with these two being added together at fill up.

Any comments appreciated.
I am not an advocate for additives. I think that if you have clean tanks and regularly use your fuel, you will be fine. The filters will do their job. Additionally, CMS (MaineSail) has done real world experiments and was unable to replicate condensation at a detrimental level. There just isn't enough cubic footage in our tank sizes. Will they stay clean forever? Probably not. Just because you don't add to the growth problem doesn't mean that all of the stations up the chain have not and as end users, there just isn't a way to tell what additives were used or how much water may already be in the fuel. So the safe bet is to just plan on getting a proper tank cleaning (or at least check) every 3-5 years.
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Old 12-18-2017, 02:10 PM   #28
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An additive won`t cost a lot in proportion to the potential cost of rectification. I`m with ctjstr, it may/may not do something but do it anyway..
But where do you stop?
Plenty of miracle cures for perceived problems being sold for boat, car, home and body with little to no actual evidence to support their purchase.

A bit like religion. :-)
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Old 12-18-2017, 02:20 PM   #29
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If you go to Harbor Freight. You can purchase a box of rubber o rings (assortment of sizes) for like 8 bucks that will last you and you kids the rest of your lives Great to have around.
Be very careful with that. A friend replaced his fuel cap o-ring with one he bought at a local hardware store. Several months later his engine was dying while running. We found a lot of water in his filter. When checking the fuel filler we found the o-ring swollen and cracked. Apparently it wasn't for use with petroleum products.
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Old 12-18-2017, 02:33 PM   #30
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He swears it gets rid of the water basically. Or allows it to be dispersed/absorbed and make it's way through the engine.
Water cannot disappear. It has to go somewhere. It may be held in suspension and get picked up in the filters but if it makes its way to the engine, that is bad news for your fuel injection pump.

A much better option is a fuel tank with a drain valve. If the drain valve is at the bottom of a small sump, that's even better.
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Old 12-18-2017, 02:53 PM   #31
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But where do you stop?
Plenty of miracle cures for perceived problems being sold for boat, car, home and body with little to no actual evidence to support their purchase.

A bit like religion. :-)
Like those bug magnet things.

And more on the additive point, you have no idea what has been added upstream and how your additive will react to these chemicals.
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Old 12-18-2017, 03:14 PM   #32
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For me Biobore is a must but I also use Stabill.

And I try to keep my tanks 1/2 to 3/4 full.
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Old 12-18-2017, 03:25 PM   #33
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Be very careful with that. A friend replaced his fuel cap o-ring with one he bought at a local hardware store. Several months later his engine was dying while running. We found a lot of water in his filter. When checking the fuel filler we found the o-ring swollen and cracked. Apparently it wasn't for use with petroleum products.
Good catch. One would assume but............Will have to run a test.
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Old 12-18-2017, 04:04 PM   #34
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Be very careful with that. A friend replaced his fuel cap o-ring with one he bought at a local hardware store. Several months later his engine was dying while running. We found a lot of water in his filter. When checking the fuel filler we found the o-ring swollen and cracked. Apparently it wasn't for use with petroleum products.
Make sure they are nitrile, buna-n or viton, never neoprene with diesel.
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Old 12-18-2017, 04:18 PM   #35
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Make sure they are nitrile, buna-n or viton, never neoprene with diesel.
I've never thought about what we use on the deck fills. I've always gone to the auto supply or hardware store and bought the size I needed. Now you guys have me thinking about it.

But a question, since they aren't in contact with any fuel per say, does it really matter? I'm just looking to keep stuff out of the tanks not the fuel getting out. Just asking.
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Old 12-18-2017, 04:33 PM   #36
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I've never thought about what we use on the deck fills. I've always gone to the auto supply or hardware store and bought the size I needed. Now you guys have me thinking about it.

But a question, since they aren't in contact with any fuel per say, does it really matter? I'm just looking to keep stuff out of the tanks not the fuel getting out. Just asking.
They still are in contact with the hydrocarbon fumes, as well as the odd splash of diesel while filling. Diesel will cause neoprene to swell significantly and then it may be large of diameter to seal properly.
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Old 12-18-2017, 04:53 PM   #37
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Be very careful with that. A friend replaced his fuel cap o-ring with one he bought at a local hardware store. Several months later his engine was dying while running. We found a lot of water in his filter. When checking the fuel filler we found the o-ring swollen and cracked. Apparently it wasn't for use with petroleum products.
Yup, that is why I asked "where".
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Old 12-18-2017, 05:09 PM   #38
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When you guys say deck fill are they actually in the deck?

Delivered a boat once and had to refuel on passage and it had actual deck fillers.
Stupid spot for them because the decks were continually awash with salt water while it was happening.

Ours are in the cabin sides about 3 ft above deck.
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Old 12-18-2017, 05:17 PM   #39
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When you guys say deck fill are they actually in the deck?

Delivered a boat once and had to refuel on passage and it had actual deck fillers.
Stupid spot for them because the decks were continually awash with salt water while it was happening.

Ours are in the cabin sides about 3 ft above deck.
No, mine are up about 3 ft but in a smooth deck. In the Miami area, we suffered for about 3 day of Irma. That was a lot of rain.
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Old 12-18-2017, 05:54 PM   #40
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Mine are in the cockpit. There is a possibility of beer or wine getting in the fuel.
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