Grey Water Discharge

[HeadMistress]

Pete Meisinger wrote:

If it goes directly from your body to the water i.e.: a "squirt" off the back of the boat, seasickness or even a bowel movement, it is legal.

George replied, "not true."

Sorry, George, but that IS true. "Direct deposit" from you into the water, whether from the lee rail or while in the water, IS legal, although you could run afoul of any indecent exposure laws.

It's only illegal if if goes through any installed device or any container--tank, bucket, even a coffee mug--first.

This only applies to sewage (human body wastes and the wastes from toilets and other receptacles intended to receive or retain body waste). This does not apply to gray water or throwing up over the side...there is no prohibition in federal law against either of them.



--Peggie

 

[Bacchus]

I have seen the same "rules" regarding gray water on Lake Champlain, but talking to lifelong boaters there, most have never heard of it or comply with it, including the surveyor I hired when purchasing my boat there. There is also a rule that the holding tank discharge hose be physically disconnected from the thru-hull. Again this was not done on the boat I purchased and my surveyor suggested it would not be a problem especially because I was not going to be a full-time boater there, just a transient. Not sure if this is legally enforceable or not.

All true and I agree except that NY has codified the waste hose disconnect but I have never seen or heard of them trying to enforce it.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Today I watched a pelican take off after visiting a local fish cleaning station. On the way past my stern, he just opened up the black water valve and layed down a bird poop slick about 25 feet long. After seeing that, I inclined to not worry about most of what my boat ejects. Dish water, shower water, whatever.

 

[Fletcher500]

I pass through there quite a bit and stay for a couple days, and I would also be surprised if anyone gave you any headaches over it.

There are quite a few derelicts tied up on the balls, which you probably know, and the authorities are likely more concerned with watching them.

The Newport Harbor people in the white skiffs are very reasonable and are likely the ones in charge of enforcement, along with the red HP boats, but they are busy doing other things.

Side Note: I have also considered purchasing a mooring out there to use intermittently.

 

[firehoser75]

Other than potentially on small inland lakes, I do not understand trying to regulate grey water discharge. IF, all other major sources of pollution have first been eliminated (like runoff from the roads, farms, industrial discharge, sewage plants overflow, etc.), then I might understand it. However, we all know that the effort and costs to achieve real results removing these major causes of water pollution are not "pallettable" to most politicians, so to "appear" to be doing something, they unreasonably "pick" on boaters (and actually having very little impact on the real problem). On the big scale of things, regulating boat's grey water does very, very little in the overall fight to keep our waters clean. Most boaters that I know are very careful and use environmentally favourable soaps etc. Also, why make regulations (rules) that people mostly do not (or cannot reasonably) follow?

 

[AusCan]

I can understand how grey water might be an issue with numerous liveaboards in confined waters. There are a few areas where a ban (and enforcement) would be a good idea, especially for liveaboards. A blanket rule for all boats isn't practical but in certain cases for those living on their boats, I think it is.

I don't see it being a huge issue to deal with. If you are a liveaboard tied to a dock, it would be simple and cheap to use one of your water tanks as a grey water tank, as Pete suggested. Just a a bit of hose, a few fittings and a pump out skin fitting required.

Yes - I know. Others pollute more. That's a sad excuse. We all need to work at stabilizing the degradation of our waterways.

 

[firehoser75]

Hi AusCan,
While I agree with you about everyone doing their reasonable best to ensure the ongoing health of our waterways (and your comment pertaining to numerous liveaboards in confined waters), I do not see that using a pragmatic, common sense based argument against targeting such a very small aspect of the problem as "just a sad excuse". By that are you saying that many boaters should take on potentially large expenses and disrupt their boats layout and effectiveness to effect a 0.000000001% positive change (compared to the full causes)? Many boats (like the one I just sold) have only one large water tank and no room to reasonably install an additional tank of any reasonable size to collect grey water. My former boat did have a 9 gallon shower sump tank, but that was intended to be directly pumped overboard during use, not used for storage. While I admit that my small amount of grey water (created using only the most environmentally friendly soaps I can find) do add a very, very, very small amount of pollutants to the water, in almost all cases (locations where I boat) does next to nothing to the ocean environment. Maybe it makes more sense for all of us boaters with no to very small grey tanks to start up our engines every day (or even several times a day) so we can motor several miles each way from an isolated anchorage to the only pump out within (sometimes a hundred nautical) miles to pump out the grey water???? What about the added air pollution?

To me, the Government officials going down this path have not bothered to think the issues through and are only "doing something for the sake of doing something" and are not really considering the "cost vs benefit". JMHO.

 

[Nepidae]

Grey water discharge

You answered your own question, "But, I am the kind of guy who likes to comply with the law, even when inconvenient".

That is your answer.

Comply with the law.

 

[Dstancil]

Grey water in Newport Harbor

I routinely rent dock space for weekends at the Marina Park, which is governed by the same city organization. I cannot comment as to the mooring balls, but the Harbor Department is the entity that patrols all the areas. We do not have a grey water holding tank are very selective when we wash dishes, and we shower in the marina facilities. We have been visiting for several years and have never seen any enforcement of grey water discharge. There is a mobile Pump-out service and several fixed pump-outs around the harbor. Not sure if this information is helpful.

 

[MYTraveler]

You answered your own question, "But, I am the kind of guy who likes to comply with the law, even when inconvenient".

That is your answer.

Comply with the law.

Except that, as others have described above, it is not the law. Thanks for your helpful input though.

 

[fgarriso]

I used to keep a boat at Newport Harbor and the gray water was plumbed overboard. I read the latest rules for Newport and they even include animal discharge.
So make sure your dog or cat doesn't pea on your aft deck. Or a harbor seal doesn't get on your swim platform, and let one go!

 

[La Sirena]

I had a boat in Newport Harbor at a slip for about 8 years. Frankly I'm surprised to know that it was illegal to put gray water in the harbor. I did regularly without incident to anyone saying anything. I didn't live aboard, but did do many overnights with showers (and showers on the swim step), did dishes, etc. I don't think you will have any problems.

 

[Ross Macdonald]

Every summer we always stop in at Newport Beach on the way to Catalina. We get a reciprocal mooring at Newport Harbor YC or Balboa YC and stay a few days. Our dishwashing water goes right overboard and the shower sump pumps out after a shower. Not that it is a big deal but we use biodegradable soap. We have never had an issue with discharging some water from both of those sources. Almost every weekend there are numerous boats anchored up at the end of Lido Isle in Newport and I would bet nobody checks to see if any boat is having dishwashing water go overboard. I would not worry about this.
Ross

 

[La Sirena]

(funny aside -- the marketing slogan of one such boat, named "The Royal Flush" is "we are #1 in the business of #2").

I saw one such boat, I can't remember where (Friday Harbor maybe?), that had a sign that said, "we'll take $hit from anyone"

 

[Gaylord Ballard]

This is not a solution, but I moor my boat at quite a nice marina which has full facilities including laundry. Everybody here takes their showers and washes their clothes in these facilities which are clean and nice.

 

[AusCan]

Hi AusCan,

To me, the Government officials going down this path have not bothered to think the issues through and are only "doing something for the sake of doing something" and are not really considering the "cost vs benefit". JMHO.

I agree firehouse.

So often the government officials do nothing for too many years, then over react
with a big stick approach. It's a shame that we can't self regulate ourselves, using our own respect for the environment. Most people understand what does or doesn't have a negative effect on the water. That works for some, but for others there is always an excuse.

I'm not advocating a blanket rule. In most areas there's a good tidal change which would dilute Graysons water to an acceptable level. But there are certain areas such as inland lakes or big enclosed marinas with limited water movement where bans on Graysons water discharge would make sense.

 

[firehoser75]

I agree with you as well Auscan. No one size fits all answers, especially since "common sense" is sometimes not all that common, and/or sometimes people don't take the time to think things through to their logical conclusions. (too big of a hurry, in other words).

 

[rtn1]

Newport local

I've had a boat in Newport CA harbor for 20+ years and currently keep it on a mooring in the A Field. Harbor patrol boats pass by several times a day, also at the YC dock where everyone washes down. There has never been a mention from anyone at the club or from any legal agency regarding gray water discharge. If enforcement was ever to be attempted I'm sure 99% of the several thousand boats that call Newport home would be in violation. Keep your boat seaworthy, tidy, use the pumpout facilities for black water, wave nicely to the harbor patrol and sheriff boats and you will be fine.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

I saw one such boat, I can't remember where (Friday Harbor maybe?), that had a sign that said, "we'll take $hit from anyone"

Right around the corner at Roche Harbor San Jaun Island WA

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

So after reading all this, why worry about it? If it is the law and it is ignored who cares.

If you are worried about it and it is a LEGITIMATE law. Have it overturned by the courts, or by initiative or recall.

I would guess you my just let it lay dead on the dock.

 

[catalinajack]

I agree with you ASD, but how do you define legitimate laws? Are they only laws that you agree with and are wise and effectual?

So after reading all this, why worry about it? If it is the law and it is ignored who cares.

If you are worried about it and it is a LEGITIMATE law. Have it overturned by the courts, or by initiative or recall.

I would guess you my just let it lay dead on the dock.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

I agree with you ASD, but how do you define legitimate laws? Are they only laws that you agree with and are wise and effectual?

To me, it is a law passed by the local, State or National legislatures. What gets me are local governments that believe they can restrict our lives without properly passing a law.

I also believe if the citizens don't like the law that their representatives (which they elected) passed, then get rid of it by an initiative or vote the legislature out of office in order to recend the law.

 

[rmatics]

You might call Royal Flush 888 656 2551. They pump out my holding tank and might have some insight.

 

[backinblue]

To me, it is a law passed by the local, State or National legislatures. What gets me are local governments that believe they can restrict our lives without properly passing a law.

I also believe if the citizens don't like the law that their representatives (which they elected) passed, then get rid of it by an initiative or vote the legislature out of office in order to recend the law.

Although true about voters and representatives, most voters don't pay attention. Even if they did, boaters are in the minority and viewed by many as rich elitists, so don't expect too much sympathy. We are easy targets.

 

[rjwilliams11741]

Maybe I missed anyone suggesting it but after reading through the posts several times, has anyone actually contacted the Newport Beach Harbor Department and simply asked them the question. I know the Newport Beach harbor is in fact a no-discharge zone but that designation has to do with the discharge of treated black water (Electasan, Purasan, etc) and not grey water.

 

[MYTraveler]

Maybe I missed anyone suggesting it but after reading through the posts several times, has anyone actually contacted the Newport Beach Harbor Department and simply asked them the question.

I did and was told that it is a law and strictly enforced. That was before it was pointed out to me that although the City's website is unequivocal about a City ordinance prohibiting grey water discharge (and even boat washing with soap, if the soap goes overboard), the actual Ordinance does not address grey water, only black.

 

[Hippocampus]

Agree much of this is ridiculous. In the Caribbean there’s no rules or regulations except people don’t direct flush out of curtesy in marinas. Still, never heard of anyone getting sick from swimming in a anchorage. Gut flora doesn’t do well in high salinity ocean water. Except for filter feeders our poop as boaters has little environmental impact. So do think it does make sense to not discharge in stagnant waters or shore lines where filter feeders (bivalves etc.) are present in numbers and especially where harvested.
Pee is sterile when it comes out of you unless you have a UTI. But it’s a great culture medium. So biologically it makes perfect sense to not restrict peeing over the rail but not allow discharge in protected waters.
Our answer to all this is “it’s a boat”. It moves. 3 miles ain’t a long way. We’re lucky as usually in international waters fairly frequently so wait until then. Don’t know what I’d do in inland waters. Here there is some sense to the rules.

 

[rslifkin]

Don’t know what I’d do in inland waters. Here there is some sense to the rules.

The answer there is "big holding tank", so you only have to worry about it every week or 2. In many places, you'll run across a working pumpout somewhere in that time window and not have to go hunting for one.

 

[psneeld]

Or use a Type I MSD in inland areas that are not NDZs.

 

[rjwilliams11741]

I did and was told that it is a law and strictly enforced. That was before it was pointed out to me that although the City's website is unequivocal about a City ordinance prohibiting grey water discharge (and even boat washing with soap, if the soap goes overboard), the actual Ordinance does not address grey water, only black.

I just went back and checked the Harbor Departments web site and see what you are saying. Very confusing and inconsistent.