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Old 01-27-2017, 10:29 PM   #1
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Perth Air Crash

This event may interest and sadden our flying enthusiasts:
Australia Day Perth plane crash: Plane's tail lifted from Swan River after air show tragedy - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
The near 70 years old Grumman Mallard was part of the Western Australia capital city Perth`s Australia Day celebrations air show. It crashed into the Swan river, in full view of many thousands of people gathered in Perth, adult and children,during a tight turn.
There are reports that the pilot, who died on impact together with his partner, was concerned about the high temperatures of the day and the effect on flight performance. He was a senior executive with Forrest Mining, a major iron ore miner and exporter.
Perth`s festivities were cancelled out of respect for those lost. It is expected the inquiry into causation will take some time.
Because news services were present for the day`s festivities the crash is well recorded on film, but it is not pleasant to watch.
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Old 01-28-2017, 01:25 AM   #2
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"Maintainest thine airspeed, lest the ground rise up and smite thee."

I have a small amount of time on a G73. It looks like he pulled too hard, too tight. Hot weather, thin wing, steep turn... sad loss.
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Old 02-01-2017, 12:42 AM   #3
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Accelerated stall...sad to watch. Similar thing happened with a B52 at an airshow practice at Fairchild AFB near Spokane, WA years ago.
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Old 02-08-2017, 04:09 PM   #4
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Apparently the pilot was a woman, busily texting herself flying a Mallard...
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Old 02-08-2017, 09:34 PM   #5
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Show some respect. Both of you guys are trolling in different directions.
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Old 02-08-2017, 10:22 PM   #6
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Flywright, it's in the record. You can see her last transmission if you Google it. I flew a Mallard "some" and it has a typical, nasty Grumman stall. I've got lots of time in other Grummans and they are lovely to fly if you pay attention; you have to do something supremely stupid to thunder in like that one did on a clear sunny day.

My old Dad told me (he was a Hurricane pilot in the Battle of Britain) when I first got my wings "...fly low and slow and throttle back in the turns..."

That's exactly what she did.
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Old 02-08-2017, 10:52 PM   #7
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My old Dad told me (he was a Hurricane pilot in the Battle of Britain) when I first got my wings "...fly low and slow and throttle back in the turns..."

That's exactly what she did.
There's no respect in disrespecting the dead.

Your quote makes no sense. If I fly low and slow, the last thing I want to do it power back in the turns.
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Old 02-08-2017, 11:12 PM   #8
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Al, that's true, it's the fastest way to kill yourself. Except that I firebombed for 20 years way back when and we did just that a lot in certain circumstances. But it was planned and there was air below, not too much ground.

It's ironic, I think that's the correct term. It's equivalent to telling a brand new boat owner to "...always dock the boat with full throttle..." My Dad thought it was funny.

I think disrespecting the dead is appropriate under certain circumstances. Osama bin Laden springs to mind. This pilot did something stupid and killed her crew. Not as bad as bin Laden but it still galls to say something fatuous like "she died doing something she loved..." I am an absolute, no-holds-barred believer in professionalism in the operation of aircraft and I might be just a little less tolerant than the average pilot of inattention or feckless flying. For that I don't apologize.
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Old 02-08-2017, 11:15 PM   #9
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Here is a link to the topic above

Swan River plane crash Instagram video inside the aircraft
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Old 02-08-2017, 11:55 PM   #10
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That video is a glamour video. You don't seriously think she was flying that airplane, do you? I have no idea what the final accident report will say, but I'd bet a lot that she isn't the Pilot in Command (PIC) or Pilot Flying (PF).

I understand about professionalism and flying low. We spent 4-5 hrs per day below 2000 AGL. I know a thing or two about verifying tower and powerline height from an airplane. It's not for the faint-hearted.
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Old 02-09-2017, 12:18 AM   #11
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Al, if she wasn't PIC, I'll transfer my opprobrium to the person that was and blame them for killing "his" crew.

I'd like to hear a bit more about your career, if you would like to share?
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Old 02-09-2017, 12:53 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xsbank View Post
Apparently the pilot was a woman, busily texting herself flying a Mallard...
The pilot was not a woman, even the link you posted has her in the passenger seat. She was not flying the plane. You owe it to TF and indeed the family to retract your offensive claim. The same goes for putting the pilot and passenger in the same category as Osama Bin Laden.
I suppose though, if 2 people perish and a valuable vintage aircraft is lost in front of thousands of people in a tragic event on Australia Day, it`s good someone like you derives pleasure from it. It`s called schadenfreude. The German word has to be used because it is such an inappropriate form of pleasure there is no word for it in English.
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Old 02-09-2017, 02:36 AM   #13
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Bruce, I derive no pleasure from anyone's death. I never said that. Al stated that you should never speak ill of the dead but that's nonsense. ObL was mentioned because I couldn't think of another example. It annoyed you so it was obviously the right choice.

You should always learn something from every aircraft crash and yet this was just a total waste. This lesson was learned somewhere around the time of the Wright Bros. Mallards flew all over the Coast in BC for years and years and their safety record was excellent. The facts as I know them (and 60,000 others) are that a perfectly serviceable but vintage aircraft crashed in perfect conditions and two people were killed pointlessly. Shouldn't that annoy you too?

If I accused the wrong pilot I apologize. I reposted from my other aviation site but I couldn't stand to watch it, I took someone else's comments instead of watching someone die.

"Someone like me." That's nice. I flew all kinds of junk and brand new business jets for 43 years and I never killed anyone. I'm proud of that. I have very strong responses to needless aviation deaths and for that I probably should tone it down.

Perhaps you should apologize too; I have no quarrel with you. I will, from now on, stick to boats.
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Old 02-09-2017, 02:56 AM   #14
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For the record, the woman was the partner of the pilot, not the pilot, and was not originally intending to be on board, but decided at the last minute to go, and because she was nervous, she took a selfie about the fight as they were ascending and posted it before the crash.

So sad that she became the victim of a situation she was actually originally going to avoid. Sadder still it was her partner who it would appear was deceived by the conditions, and ended up ending both their lives by stalling in the turn, which I think, was to be the finale as he brought her in to land on the water in front of the crowd.
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Old 02-09-2017, 09:36 AM   #15
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Xsbank, if you were truly a "professional" pilot, then you should understand how this happened. And you should understand that it could happen to YOU. Somewhere in the dark recesses of your mind, you should be able to admit, given certain circumstances, that it could have been you...By being able to put ourselves in the same situation and understanding how it happened. THAT is how we learn from accidents...by humbling ourselves from other people's mistakes. You are lacking a bit of humility here. There is no lesson in it if all you can say is "That never would have happened to me". Especially since we really have no clue what happened and are only speculating. Casting blame based on speculation is not very tasteful and does not reflect well on you...professionally. I know you were talking freely and maybe your words and comparisons were not well chosen. But still you shouldn't be so quick to judge not knowing all of the facts. Hell, a control cable could have broken...who knows. Anyway....

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Old 02-09-2017, 11:14 AM   #16
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"Learn by the mistakes made by others as you will not live long enough to make them all by yourself."

From the Transport Canada Safety Letter masthead.

I said I would stick to boats but you are impugning my aviation professionalism.

Making the same old mistakes over and over is a sign that somebody isn't paying attention. That is a lack of professionalism. When somebody does make that kind of mistake, why is it wrong to question them, even if they thundered in? Yes, a cable could have snapped or the pilot could have become incapacitated or any other cause that is not obvious but by just saying "tut tut, too bad" instead of saying that looked like a stall/spin accident, how could he be so obtuse? How could he have prevented that? Why shouldn't you be angry that one of our numbers made a stupid mistake?The prime directive of our profession is to bring our passengers home safe. Talk about it while the impact of the accident is fresh.

Think about how you do an approach in your 737. You follow a series of SOPs. You brief your crew on your intentions, you review the plate, you go over the weather, you discuss which gate, you ask for input from your copilot, you brief the flight attendants and ask for input, you discuss all foreseeable eventualities that your experience and training have accumulated. You try to leave nothing to chance. I probably missed something, it's been a while. This is all a result of years and years of accumulated experience from thousands of pilots - millions. Every 6 months you are bullied in the simulator by training departments with hopefully fresh scenarios to test your level of expertise and hopefully show you something new, a better way to do something, a safer way to maneuver. Yes, I read the reports like the Turkish 737 in Schipol and the AirFrance 'bus in the South Pacific and they have lessons that are new and add to our expertise by reading about them. Perhaps you will then encounter them in the simulator on your next recurrent? All of these events should modify our behaviour by making us aware of one more way we can keep our passengers safe.

In the early days of airshows, we used to show up, there was a briefing on the ground then we pretty much went out and did our thing. There were unfortunate events that thankfully did not result in deaths but we could see the writing on the wall. We sat down and built an entire set of SOPs that would be rigidly followed at all air shows. All of this was an attempt to not repeat errors made in the past.

None of this is intended to preach but I think we are remiss in not attacking every aviation accident with our professionalism, common sense and expertise with a goal of adding it to our own experience and passing on our knowledge to other pilots.

Sometimes this is not PC...

I retired three years ago, happily (well, it took 6 months) gave up my 2 ATPs, my 8 or so type ratings and my 13 years as a Business Jet instructor Pilot, type rating examiner and Quality Assurance pilot. I can pee on the wall too.

I now attempt the same thing with boating. "Learn from the mistakes of others etc, etc,..."
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Old 02-09-2017, 12:28 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Xsbank View Post
"Learn by the mistakes made by others as you will not live long enough to make them all by yourself."

From the Transport Canada Safety Letter masthead.

I said I would stick to boats but you are impugning my aviation professionalism.

Making the same old mistakes over and over is a sign that somebody isn't paying attention. That is a lack of professionalism. When somebody does make that kind of mistake, why is it wrong to question them, even if they thundered in? Yes, a cable could have snapped or the pilot could have become incapacitated or any other cause that is not obvious but by just saying "tut tut, too bad" instead of saying that looked like a stall/spin accident, how could he be so obtuse? How could he have prevented that? Why shouldn't you be angry that one of our numbers made a stupid mistake?The prime directive of our profession is to bring our passengers home safe. Talk about it while the impact of the accident is fresh.

Think about how you do an approach in your 737. You follow a series of SOPs. You brief your crew on your intentions, you review the plate, you go over the weather, you discuss which gate, you ask for input from your copilot, you brief the flight attendants and ask for input, you discuss all foreseeable eventualities that your experience and training have accumulated. You try to leave nothing to chance. I probably missed something, it's been a while. This is all a result of years and years of accumulated experience from thousands of pilots - millions. Every 6 months you are bullied in the simulator by training departments with hopefully fresh scenarios to test your level of expertise and hopefully show you something new, a better way to do something, a safer way to maneuver. Yes, I read the reports like the Turkish 737 in Schipol and the AirFrance 'bus in the South Pacific and they have lessons that are new and add to our expertise by reading about them. Perhaps you will then encounter them in the simulator on your next recurrent? All of these events should modify our behaviour by making us aware of one more way we can keep our passengers safe.

In the early days of airshows, we used to show up, there was a briefing on the ground then we pretty much went out and did our thing. There were unfortunate events that thankfully did not result in deaths but we could see the writing on the wall. We sat down and built an entire set of SOPs that would be rigidly followed at all air shows. All of this was an attempt to not repeat errors made in the past.

None of this is intended to preach but I think we are remiss in not attacking every aviation accident with our professionalism, common sense and expertise with a goal of adding it to our own experience and passing on our knowledge to other pilots.

Sometimes this is not PC...

I retired three years ago, happily (well, it took 6 months) gave up my 2 ATPs, my 8 or so type ratings and my 13 years as a Business Jet instructor Pilot, type rating examiner and Quality Assurance pilot. I can pee on the wall too.

I now attempt the same thing with boating. "Learn from the mistakes of others etc, etc,..."
There is nothing wrong with this post. Very professional. See...you can do it!!!
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Old 02-09-2017, 01:31 PM   #18
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The down side of posting is that it allows one to let their uncontrolled inner angst out and that sometimes raises others ire. Now a prime example of this is our SO CALLED PRESIDENT TWEETING ABOUT OUR SO CALLED JUDGES.
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Old 02-09-2017, 01:34 PM   #19
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The down side of posting is that it allows one to let their uncontrolled inner angst out and that sometimes raises others ire. Now a prime example of this is our SO CALLED PRESIDENT TWEETING ABOUT OUR SO CALLED JUDGES.
Best to save that for OTDE.
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Old 02-11-2017, 06:52 AM   #20
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The down side of posting is that it allows one to let their uncontrolled inner angst out and that sometimes raises others ire. Now a prime example of this is our SO CALLED PRESIDENT TWEETING ABOUT OUR SO CALLED JUDGES.


Now that's what I call a hijack.

I know nothing about flying, wish I did.However, as the cause of the accident have not yet been established surely this whole conversation is a bit premature to say the least.
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