What does radar do that my eyes can't?

[JWellington]

I'm going to preface this so that you all understand my circumstances. First, cruising offshore is basically never going to happen. Second, we have no lower helm, so I'm ALWAYS at the very top of the boat driving. Third, we have no auto pilot, so I'm ALWAYS at the wheel. Fourth, I cannot foresee any circumstances where I would need radar, because I've never needed it in the past. and thus never learned how to use it.

With that said, I have this antiquated radar on board. It works, but it just sits there. I don't even understand how to read it. I'm thinking about pulling it out and looking into installing a wired camera monitor for engine room monitoring.

I don't want to remove something though, that may be useful if we ever decide to take the ditch down to Corpus or something.

Thooughts?

I didnt know about radar either before, but when I thought about it, reason told me that all boats and planes use it because its BETTER than human eyes in so many ways. If it wasn't, then it wouldnt be used. It took me about one minute of thinking.

 

[catalinajack]

Earlier today I crossed the Deception Pass Bridge (Whidbey Island, WA). The passage there seems to be no more than 200 hundred yards wide at its narrowest. At Noon it was still socked in, zero visibility at water level. Methinks radar would be useful there.

 

[dhays]

Earlier today I crossed the Deception Pass Bridge (Whidbey Island, WA). The passage there seems to be no more than 200 hundred yards wide at its narrowest. At Noon it was still socked in, zero visibility at water level. Methinks radar would be useful there.

Even with Radar I wouldn’t try to navigate that pass in those conditions.

 

[Fish53]

I used to run ferries for the Maine State Ferry Service and there's several narrows that 200 yards would be a blessing, it's more like 200 ft.. We have fog for much of the summer and snow much of the winter along with a ten foot tide. There's a schedule to keep and trying to operate without radar and someone that knows how to use it would be foolhardy.

 

[Hippocampus]

When I boated only in New England there was incredible light pollution when entering many harbors. All the colors of the rainbow at all intensives. Even in the absence of any fog you could get confused. Radar was a great help. The range feature and nature of returns made things obvious lowering the stress level.

 

[GFC]

When we took the boat around the coast heading to Seattle we passed Tattoosh Island, the furthest point NW on the continental US and headed up the Strait of Juan de Fuca. It was getting late in the afternoon so I got up on plane headed for an overnight stay in Port Angeles. It was well after dark when we got there and that's a port I've never been to.

You should Google Port Angeles then look for the marina and you will see why we had such a hard time finding it. Between the GPS and the Radar we made our way around the long sand spit and eventually did find out way to the marina. Without radar to see other boats I am not sure I'd have ever located it.

 

[Scooby5959]

Nordic tug 26

I am interested in hearing from owners of Nordic tug 26s . or at least somebody very familiar with the boat I’ve have one sitting in my driveway for a few months now wondering what exactly I’m going to do with it. First I’m very hesitant to make changes that will affect the resale . retirement money you know. Anyways I’ve given up on worrying about that . I like to change Boat around so what I need to know is how much weather this boat can handle . they say it’s not a Bluewater Boat . would it be possible to turn it into a Bluewater Boat. anyways I like to talk to somebody that’s had it out in very rough weather. I live at the mouth of the Columbia river and the Pacific ocean so I can easily find out myself what It can handle . however I would like other peoples opinions on it . My inspiration was reading an article on two guys that crossed the Atlantic in a 21 trawler specifically built for that . Doesn’t look much different than what I have

 

[mvweebles]

I am interested in hearing from owners of Nordic tug 26s . or at least somebody very familiar with the boat I’ve have one sitting in my driveway for a few months now wondering what exactly I’m going to do with it. First I’m very hesitant to make changes that will affect the resale . retirement money you know. Anyways I’ve given up on worrying about that . I like to change Boat around so what I need to know is how much weather this boat can handle . they say it’s not a Bluewater Boat . would it be possible to turn it into a Bluewater Boat. anyways I like to talk to somebody that’s had it out in very rough weather. I live at the mouth of the Columbia river and the Pacific ocean so I can easily find out myself what It can handle . however I would like other peoples opinions on it . My inspiration was reading an article on two guys that crossed the Atlantic in a 21 trawler specifically built for that . Doesn’t look much different than what I have

Scooby - guessing you thought you were starting a new thread. Instead, you added a title within an existing thread on Radar deep within the electronics form. You might get lucky - moderators may be able to move this to <General Discussion> but if not, you may want to delete this and re-post

I initially had the same problem - I couldn't find how to start a new thread. You have to go to the topic area, then the <NEW THREAD> button will be available. Here is the URL to the <GENERAL DISCUSSION> area. If you are logged-in, should get you there and you can post a new "Nordic Tug - how tough are they?" post.

https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s3/

Good luck. Cute little boat. Back in the day when I was doing a lot of teaching, a gal who had the boating itch hired me to teach her how to dock it. Didn't take long - mannerly boat and she was a good student.

 

[backinblue]

People cross oceans in rowboats and kayaks too, doesn't mean that you should expect to be successful at it. Not sure exactly what it is you want to do. Cross the Pacific?

 

[Scooby5959]

Yeah sorry I didn’t think I was starting a new thread . anyways crossing the Pacific would be fun don’t know if I could do it in my Nordic 26 however. I’m a pretty handy guy I can do all the work myself welding on fuel tanks etc. just wondered if anybody knows what those boats can actually handle .

 

[Simi 60]

Yeah sorry I didn’t think I was starting a new thread . anyways crossing the Pacific would be fun don’t know if I could do it in my Nordic 26 however. I’m a pretty handy guy I can do all the work myself welding on fuel tanks etc. just wondered if anybody knows what those boats can actually handle .

Well, I'd like to think it was more capable than a washing machine

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/crazy-sailor-who-quit-teaching-13181462

 

[BruceK]

Yeah sorry I didn’t think I was starting a new thread . anyways crossing the Pacific would be fun don’t know if I could do it in my Nordic 26 however. I’m a pretty handy guy I can do all the work myself welding on fuel tanks etc. just wondered if anybody knows what those boats can actually handle .

Surprised you are still here. A simple search found this for you, there could be others.
https://panntoa.com/member-forum/

 

[rsn48]

You are more likely to see the second coming of Christ than successfully cross the Pacific in a 26 Nordic Tug or any Nordic Tug for that matter.

 

[Scooby5959]

Surprised you are still here. A simple search found this for you, there could be others.
https://panntoa.com/member-forum/

I’m aware of that website surprisingly little information wasn’t able to find anything about the seaworthiness of a Nordic 26 anyways thanks

 

[Scooby5959]

You are more likely to see the second coming of Christ than successfully cross the Pacific in a 26 Nordic Tug or any Nordic Tug for that matter.

Don’t know about that however I have to decide if I want to use radar or not sarcasm intended

 

[Benthic2]

Well, I'd like to think it was more capable than a washing machine

Yeah, but that was a full displacement washing machine. The Nordic Tug is semi-displacement.

 

[Fish53]

The nice thing about crossing the Pacific in a Nordic tug is there's no need to file a float plan.

 

[ronobrien]

As a former navy radar man I removed the working old radar when I bought my 1979 album. Rules of the road can be used against you in a collision if you have radar, as not maintaining a lookout by all means including radar. That being said internet live weather radar on you phone can help with sudden storms. Radar is very difficult to use to locate markers and other boats can be different to detect with casual glances. Radar requires full time attention in bad conditions and can become spotty information. AIS is much better than Rader and can see around turns in the icw for commercial traffic and many pleasure craft.

I have made many voyages offshore. You state that radar requires constant attention. My opinion is that the sea should always have your constant attention.

 

[Hippocampus]

Being on sailboats where power demands of nav equipment especially radar and AP draw is a concern can say I don’t agree with LT. On just about every boat, including my own, porotocol is
Set up alarm zones on radar and AIS. Set up how often the radar scans. Go daydream, read, snack, listen to music (bud in one ear only). Depending upon captain and situation every ten or 15 minutes get up off your butt and do a 360 with your eyes, look at all gauges, screens and key elements of the boat.( if sail points of potential chafe, bilge(s) etc) if power your monitoring and cameras.) of course you’re always listening and your nose works. You’re always feeling the rhythm of the boat. Before you go off watch chart everything including position, weather, millibars, all tank volumes, SOC, freezer/frig temps( every other) etc. and look at line above to make sure changes are reasonable. On sail walk the deck. In power a ER check. We routinely adjust how often and at what range the radar scans. Depending upon the device and vmg there’s a favorite range but have found adjusting both radar range and chart range helpful. That’s done at least once every hour or so. Often more frequently as being on watch can be tedious.
It’s a routine. It’s the minimum you do. You never subtract but may add to it. People talk about constant vigilance. Yes on a subconscious level you are. But most of the time on a boat on a conscious level you aren’t . Reading a good book. Having a fun conversation with crew. Whatever . You need a fixed routine to safely run a boat. Maybe there’s one other person who you really trust on the boat. On his watch you can turn your mind off completely. But the routine applies to everyone so greatly lowers stress. Can’t tell you the number of times that routine has been helpful preventing small things from becoming big problems. Do a slight variations coastal, near shore and offshore. In all settings radar is part of the routine and a blessing.
The comment about ships wakes is spot on. For the VLCCs and the monster container ships like staying 5nm miles away from them. The sooner you pick them up the easier to do. Also prefer going well behind them or parallel to their course so with radar and AIS that’s easier to do. Sometimes the AIS will give you two intercepts. Like using the radar to sort thing out and get the biggest point of closest approach with the least change in course or speed. Find it’s easier on that screen. But maybe that’s just me.

 

[Scooby5959]

As a former navy radar man I removed the working old radar when I bought my 1979 album. Rules of the road can be used against you in a collision if you have radar, as not maintaining a lookout by all means including radar. That being said internet live weather radar on you phone can help with sudden storms. Radar is very difficult to use to locate markers and other boats can be different to detect with casual glances. Radar requires full time attention in bad conditions and can become spotty information. AIS is much better than Rader and can see around turns in the icw for commercial traffic and many pleasure craft.

I couldn’t agree more . you bring up a good point about taking the radar off your boat. I don’t not use mine because I have anything against radar it’s just I never seem to need it.And I really don’t trust it . it just me . I also agree with post 198 and 199

 

[psneeld]

Only if you believe liquid therapy is correct on his points....I certainly dont. From the COLREGS age old debate to thinking AIS is better than radar....for what reading a vessels name? Sure maybe on rivers full of barge trains, but most coastal areas , most traffic doesn't transmit AIS....nor do non vessels except some navaids.

 

[Fish53]

Only if you believe liquid therapy is correct on his points....I certainly dont. From the COLREGS age old debate to thinking AIS is better than radar....for what reading a vessels name? Sure maybe on rivers full of barge trains, but most coastal areas , most traffic doesn't transmit AIS....nor do non vessels except some navaids.

Most vessels that have AIS are large and hence provide a dandy target return on radar. The advantage to AIS is getting the vessels name which as I pointed out elsewhere isn't a necessity but rather a slight convenience. With AIS however you can get details of a vessel unavailable to radar, like the size of the crew if that's important to you.

 

[twistedtree]

AIS does things that radar doesn't, and radar does things that AIS doesn't. Given a choice, I would take both. If forced to pick between the two, radar, hands down.


Radar works on all targets, not just those transmitting AIS.



Radar can triangulate off identifiable object to figure out your position, if necessary. Can't do that with AIS.



Radar will give you bearing, distance, and lat/lon of anything you point to. AIS can't do that.


Radar can track the movement of anything it sees, plot your crossing, and show you how to maneuver for a safer crossing. AIS can only do that for vessels transmitting AIS.


The only thing AIS can do that radar can't is tell you the name/call sign of an AIS target. In all other ways, radar is a superset of AIS. There is just no comparison.

 

[Fish53]

AIS does things that radar doesn't, and radar does things that AIS doesn't. Given a choice, I would take both. If forced to pick between the two, radar, hands down.


Radar works on all targets, not just those transmitting AIS.



Radar can triangulate off identifiable object to figure out your position, if necessary. Can't do that with AIS.



Radar will give you bearing, distance, and lat/lon of anything you point to. AIS can't do that.


Radar can track the movement of anything it sees, plot your crossing, and show you how to maneuver for a safer crossing. AIS can only do that for vessels transmitting AIS.


The only thing AIS can do that radar can't is tell you the name/call sign of an AIS target. In all other ways, radar is a superset of AIS. There is just no comparison.

That's it in a nutshell and well stated. I still can't get the love affair with AIS, even in one of it's primary functions, collision avoidance, it has limited utility. For anyone that goes out or stays out after dark or operates in even slightly limited visibility radar is indispensable. When you add up all the functions radar can perform it's amazing so many are disinterested in learning how to use it.

 

[rslifkin]

There's one other thing AIS can do that radar can't, although it only matters in some places. Assuming the signal makes it, AIS can see across land or around a river bend better than radar in many cases. But it's no substitute for radar, it's a supplement.

 

[toocoys]

You’ve actually grown since then however- you aren’t as rude and a bit more open than you were a year or so ago. Lol, you even snarked back at Peggie and we all held our breathe….

Chilax - you can do this and not be a loner

Had I known that radar discussions were up there with religion, poitics, and which bathroom you identify with, I wouldn't have asked the question - for sure.

One of my biggest character flaws is the inability to accept authority. It's been a plague for me since I was younger, and I've never been able to accept being told what to do. I can remember multiple times I challenged teachers in school. A middle school coach once told me to do push ups and my response was "when you get your old ass down here and do them, I'll do them too." When he asked if I wanted to go to the principals office, my response was "would you like me to show you the way?" Authority has never scared me, and I'm not afraid to buck the system if I know I can do things differently and achieve the same outcome.

 

[mvweebles]

Had I known that radar discussions were up there with religion, poitics, and which bathroom you identify with, I wouldn't have asked the question - for sure.



One of my biggest character flaws is the inability to accept authority. It's been a plague for me since I was younger, and I've never been able to accept being told what to do. I can remember multiple times I challenged teachers in school. A middle school coach once told me to do push ups and my response was "when you get your old ass down here and do them, I'll do them too." When he asked if I wanted to go to the principals office, my response was "would you like me to show you the way?" Authority has never scared me, and I'm not afraid to buck the system if I know I can do things differently and achieve the same outcome.

Interesting statement from an OP with a question mark at the end of the subject line.

 

[Hippocampus]

Thing I have trouble with is when your going through a busy harbor. You are just leaving the East River. You want to go under the Verrazano bridge then turn right to head to the Chesapeake. There are a zillion AIS targets. But there’s also small boats (power and sail) which may have receivers but not transceivers. Sure some AIS show up with the ships icon and others as boats. Sure you can tap on them and get the details. Sure you can set the vector lines at infinity so know which are moving and may get in your way. . But find for me at least when there’s a zillion targets and some don’t have AIS I find it easier to look at radar.

 

[toocoys]

Interesting statement from an OP with a question mark at the end of the subject line.

I've never had a problem asking a question. I have had problems being told that I must or must not do something because of some random rule in a book.

 

[ranger58sb]

Had I known that radar discussions were up there with religion, poitics, and which bathroom you identify with, I wouldn't have asked the question - for sure.

One of my biggest character flaws is the inability to accept authority. It's been a plague for me since I was younger, and I've never been able to accept being told what to do. I can remember multiple times I challenged teachers in school. A middle school coach once told me to do push ups and my response was "when you get your old ass down here and do them, I'll do them too." When he asked if I wanted to go to the principals office, my response was "would you like me to show you the way?" Authority has never scared me, and I'm not afraid to buck the system if I know I can do things differently and achieve the same outcome.

"Authority" and "scare" in the same sentence seems an odd combination.

Anyway, an "authority" might tell you to get out of the way of a speeding car. Your call. An "authority" might tell you to not drink the cyanide. Your call. Et cetera. Some stuff isn't "random."

-Chris