VHF/DSC help needed

[PMF1984]

So I have 3 radios. The “newer” one is from 2002 and has .DSC capability which was not utilized (no location device) hooked up when I bought the boat. I hooked it up to my Vesper 8000 and it worked fine for a year or so.

Now no location readout on the display. I checked all the connections, did the pull test etc.

To give myself a reality check on how deep to delve into this, I checked out new units at Defender. They range from $100-$500.

Recommendations?

 

[HTurner]

So I have 3 radios. The “newer” one is from 2002 and has .DSC capability which was not utilized (no location device) hooked up when I bought the boat. I hooked it up to my Vesper 8000 and it worked fine for a year or so.

Now no location readout on the display. I checked all the connections, did the pull test etc.

To give myself a reality check on how deep to delve into this, I checked out new units at Defender. They range from $100-$500.

Recommendations?

I would suggest a new radio. One with it's own gps and AIS (as backup). Such as:


https://www.defender.com/product3.j...a2000&path=-1|135|2028691|2207355&id=6803705#

 

[PMF1984]

Turner, Thanks for the reply.

So I do have a hand held unit that has GPS built-in as well as a spare USB GPS antenna to plug into my laptop if the main GPS fails.

I also have a Raymarine GPS antenna that I disconnected from my Raymarine MFD as it confused the MFD because of the more accurate Vesper unit.

Also have a less accurate GPS chips in my IPad and in my phone that I can navigate with using my nav apps.

For AIS readouts I have a laptop and two Ipads (one as a spare) so I have plenty of back-up.

As for a radio, I'm thinking something simpler where I don't have to schedule an afternoon to read the specs and installation/setup instructions.

 

[Olebird]

What outcome do you want?? For the most part consumer marine electronics is cheaper to replace tha to repair uhless you are a tech.

 

[rslifkin]

I'm a fan of modern VHFs with integrated GPS. It's not for redundancy for anything else, but it means you can get DSC working more easily (as the VHF doesn't need any connection to other electronics for GPS data and you don't need to worry about if anything else is powered up, the red button will always work).



Personally, I've got a pair of Standard Horizon GX1850s. They've been great, have internal GPS, and they support a remote mic as well if you want to put one elsewhere in the boat.

 

[IRENE]

Recommendations?

1. Confirm settings on the Vesper are correct (e.g. its sending the correct data in the correct format to the output). Vesper may also have a software update to fix a bug. Sometimes my Furuno Navnet 3D does things I can’t explain, and I have to reboot or reselect a setting.

2. Renew the physical connections. The wires are often small and the pull test may not be adequate. Strip some wire back and use new crimp connectors with appropriate anti-corrosion preservative.

Good Luck

 

[SoWhat]

Money is better spent on personal epirb. In my opinion DSC was a great idea with poor implementation and just not worth the grief of figuring out how to connect 2 different manufacturers products. All for limited VHF range.

 

[koliver]

DSC is a popular feature of modern VHF radios. The question is, does anyone actually use the DSC? In my experience, I know of some folks who maintain a contact list of friends that they can call on their DSC equipment and have private VHF conversations. OTOH, not having DSC, I have never had a trip on which I wished that I did have it. Having been SAR for a few years I never encountered a distress in which DSC was used.
AIS, OTOH, I find very useful. From my house, I can used my cellphone based AIS receiver, Boatbeacon, to identify some of the boats parading down or up Houstoun Passage, see what their speed is, how big they are, what flag, etc. On my own boat, That program comes paired with a good navigation program, so I have it tracking my progress and giving any warnings its CPA deems appropriate. The newer VHF radios that also have AIS can do this too, and some software allows the AiS to be plotted on your integrated plotter. All of that is brilliant software, but without a true AIS transmitter, it will never tell the other guys where you are, so is of limited value.
My boat has a Standard Horizon VHF radio with a RAM (Remote Access Microphone) on the upper deck. One antenna, no extra features to go wrong. At the price of the newer SH radios complete with DSC and AIS receiver and RAM (the old RAM is not compatible with the new radio) I am not tempted to move up, as what is offered isn't much better than what I have already.
You may be in that same boat.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

DSC is a popular feature of modern VHF radios. The question is, does anyone actually use the DSC? In my experience, I know of some folks who maintain a contact list of friends that they can call on their DSC equipment and have private VHF conversations. OTOH, not having DSC, I have never had a trip on which I wished that I did have it. Having been SAR for a few years I never encountered a distress in which DSC was used.

AIS, OTOH, I find very useful. From my house, I can used my cellphone based AIS receiver, Boatbeacon, to identify some of the boats parading down or up Houstoun Passage, see what their speed is, how big they are, what flag, etc. On my own boat, That program comes paired with a good navigation program, so I have it tracking my progress and giving any warnings its CPA deems appropriate. The newer VHF radios that also have AIS can do this too, and some software allows the AiS to be plotted on your integrated plotter. All of that is brilliant software, but without a true AIS transmitter, it will never tell the other guys where you are, so is of limited value.

My boat has a Standard Horizon VHF radio with a RAM (Remote Access Microphone) on the upper deck. One antenna, no extra features to go wrong. At the price of the newer SH radios complete with DSC and AIS receiver and RAM (the old RAM is not compatible with the new radio) I am not tempted to move up, as what is offered isn't much better than what I have already.

You may be in that same boat.

I agree, who uses it. Not me, too complicated. Just look at the owner's manual. It's easier to call on VHF 16 and then switch to a working channel, although if you are a "chatting Kathy", some folks may get irritated.

While in Canada, I have heard 3 alarms from the little red switch. Scared the crap outta me as I have 2 radios on the bridge.

 

[STB]

You don't include the model of the radio or note whether the integration is with NMEA0183 OR NMEA2000.

NMEA0183 is just an layer above RS-422. You can inspect the messages on your computer with a cheap USB adapter and free serial terminal software, for example, on Windows, PuTTY.

I use this adapter, currently selling for $16.98 with free Amazon Prime next day delivery:

DTECH USB to RS422 RS485 Serial Port Converter Adapter Cable with FTDI Chip Supports Windows 11 10 8 7 XP Mac -1.5 Feet https://a.co/d/a08TOUE

Basically, you can start out at the wires connecting to the DSC radio's NMEA0183 input and check for data there. If it isn't there, you can check the output of the AIS. If it is there, you can check forward or backward at any intermediate connections or, if really needed, tap the wires at intermediate locations to isolate the failed device or location in wiring.

If a device seems failed, you can check the wiring and configuration at that device for a bad connection or forgotten configuration, etc.

The same can be done for NMEA2000. I have an Actisense device for this purpose. But since it is CAN based and has a more complex messaging layer, the adapter is 10x as expensive and the wiring is harder to tap. So, it may not be worth it to use once or even a few times.

Personally, I wouldn't pull connections apart without doing it systematically in a way that enables testing and limiting the search space. There can be a lot of connections, potential chaffe points, and places that are hard to get to to inspect, etc. Not when the testing tool is $17. Again, just my approach.

 

[wkearney99]

1. Confirm settings on the Vesper are correct (e.g. its sending the correct data in the correct format to the output). Vesper may also have a software update to fix a bug. Sometimes my Furuno Navnet 3D does things I can’t explain, and I have to reboot or reselect a setting.

2. Renew the physical connections. The wires are often small and the pull test may not be adequate. Strip some wire back and use new crimp connectors with appropriate anti-corrosion preservative.

If it was working before then something changed. Either the output speed from the Vesper (which would be a software feature) or the cabling between the devices.

Start with your radio model and read the manual looking for what it requires for NMEA-0183 speed. Typically 4800 or 38400. Make sure the Vesper is configured to send that.

Then verify that the cabling hasn't come loose or broken. 0183 is often carried on some VERY thin wires and they're easily dislodged from connectors or broken. A proper install should prevent that, but "**** happens" and things break.

Otherwise if the Vesper is sending and cabling is OK then it's entirely possible the radio's interface has died.

Given it's age you'd likely be better off replacing it with something new vs repairing it. New radios often bring along a host of better features/performance, and could likely be connected via NMEA-2000 instead of 0183. AIS receiving being one, or upgrade with added antennas you can also transmit AIS. The added antenna for transmitting, and GPS complicate the upgrade, but are likely worth it.

 

[PMF1984]

Thanks all for your time in responding.

I did check the connections I had previously made (when it worked).

No improvement. So I did take to heart the concept of maybe I just need a new radio and got a basic Standard Horizon GX1400.

Now what are those little wire connectors called, the ones where the wires go onto it parallel and you depress what looks like a little button. Those wires are very small….

 

[Comodave]

They are a PITA to splice. I use the connector below. They aren’t shrink though. But they are pretty easy to use for splicing the tiny wires. Got them on Amazon.

300pcs Closed End Cap 22-16/16-14/12-10 Gauge Closed End Crimp Terminals Connectors Kit

 

[ranger58sb]

DSC is a popular feature of modern VHF radios. The question is, does anyone actually use the DSC? In my experience, I know of some folks who maintain a contact list of friends that they can call on their DSC equipment and have private VHF conversations. OTOH, not having DSC, I have never had a trip on which I wished that I did have it. Having been SAR for a few years I never encountered a distress in which DSC was used.

We have heard DSC distress calls. (And that's when I discovered our installer hadn't connected the NMEA0183 radio OUT to the plotter IN... but that's a different story...)

Anyway, I specifically think of DSC as two mostly separate features.

Most important is location broadcasting in distress situations. Which of course needs a location source.

The second, yukking it up with buds on the radio, must be a different strokes thing. Not useful for us. We don't have buds that we might call on a VHF radio... but I guess maybe some people do.

But not using that second feature doesn't in my mind diminish the importance of the first.

FWIW.

-Chris

 

[twistedtree]

There was a GPS date rollover in the past year or so that resulted in some number of GPS devices sending out incorrect date information. I'd check with Vesper to see if the 8000 was subject to this. Most companies have updates available to correct the date.


Devices receiving the GPS dates respond differently. Some just display the date, even though it's wrong, where others stop operating. Some Furuno AISes, for example, stop transmitting when they have a bad GPS date. Your VHF may be doing the same thing. Does it normally display the date and time on its display, along with lat and lon? Is the date correct?


Either way, it's worth checking the Vesper and updating it, if needed.

 

[PMF1984]

Just an update…

I installed my new radio yesterday and it does display position (unlike the old radio)

Diagnosis, not vesper or wire connections, but radio issue.
Problem solved.

Thanks for all the input and suggestions.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Just an update…

I installed my new radio yesterday and it does display position (unlike the old radio)

Diagnosis, not vesper or wire connections, but radio issue.
Problem solved.

Thanks for all the input and suggestions.

Thanks for the update.