Best way to add AIS

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Dougcole

Dougcole

Guru
Joined
Jan 21, 2008
Messages
2,167
Location
USA
Vessel Name
Morgan
Vessel Make
'05 Mainship 40T
Hello E-gurus.


I'm getting ready soon to add AIS to our boat. I'd like to do transponder, so I can send and receive.


My current set up is two 9" Garmin 942xs MFDs next to each other at the upper helm. With GMR 18 radar. I installed them last year. I have I run the boat exclusively from the upper helm, there is a small stand alone chart plotter at the lower helm, but I'm not considering sending the signal down there. There is a 3 year old Icom VHF up there as well, which I'm not opposed to changing out (I'd likely move it to the lower helm) as it doesn't play nice with my Garmins for DSC. I'd likely move the Icom to the lower helm if I needed to get a new VHF.



I also have an easily accessible antenna mount on the side of my FB which I am no longer using.


I'd like to do this without paying an arm and a leg, and I'd install it myself.



What would you guys do?
 
The easiest (but possibly the most expensive) option is to install a Garmin AIS800.

Plug and play. the 800 even includes the nmea 2000 cable. You could also install the older AIS600. A little less power and a little cheaper. I think DSC display on the plotter is useful so a nmea2000 compatible radio would be required.

Personally I am a fan of a dedicated antenna because it provides backup capability for vhf. I don't see any need for DSC display but I do see a need for the red button to work so I make sure those connections work. Buyer cheaper models of hardware usually means hours of figuring out the wiring and then many more hours of debugging. Lot to be said for sticking with same Mfr.
 
My Garmin AIS shares a VHF antenna( made to share and does not affect radio) but does have a dedicated GPS antenna.
 
I think you can probably leave your existing equipment alone and just add an AIS transciever.

For a "Class B" transceiver, which is the kind normally used by recreational vessels (both sends and receives, but with a lower power and fewer features and requirements than the "Class A"commercial units), you might want to consider...

You might want to look at an Em-Trak B300 or B-920, or an AMEC Camino-108. All three are AIS transceivers, with integrated GPS, and that will send the data to plotters, radios, etc via NMEA 0183 or 2000 (each has both interfaces). They probably cost $400 - $500.

For a few dollars more, you can also get a AMEC Camino-108W, which is the same as the 108, except that it has a Wi-Fi interface that can be used by, for example, your laptop or tablet running OpenCPN or some other chart plotting software.

I am still a huge fan of the Em-Trak A100, which is full commercial Class A. It has been replaced by the prettier A200, but has the same essential functionality. If your primary interface will be your chart plotter, you may not care about pretty. And, here's the fun thing -- West Marine as some A100s still for sale for $729.00. Class A for almost the same price as Class B:
-- https://www.westmarine.com/buy/em-trak-marine-electronics--a100-ais-class-a-transceiver--12333944

Note that, depending upon what data you send them, a Class A unit may register some errors due to missing information. But, they should still work just fine, except for not sending those specific bits of data, which are only required for compulsory class A users. The A100 is in this category (and, in my case, I send it the data it wants via NMEA from my autopilot's sensor core).

Lastly, there is a brand new "Class B+" standard that is between Class A and Class B, both in terms of wattage and in terms of features. Since it doesn't count for compulsory commercial users, I'd expect it priced much closer to Class B than Class A. Onwa already has some units on the market, many for less than $400, and some of those even being built into small color chart plotters.

The cheapest way I know to go is probably actually a Class B+ solution, the Onwa KS-200A, which is full Class B+ and can be had on eBay for as little as $200, new. The only thing to point out about it is that it does NMEA-0183, but not NMEA-2000. So, if you've got NMEA-2000 and don't already have a 0183<->2000 bridge, those can cost $150-$200. I haven't used this product from Onwa before, but I have used Onwa plotters, and they were simple, reliable, and seemingly durable (but I didn't have them for years and years to know).
 
We have a Garmin VHF 210 AIS VHF on the fly bridge networked with 3 garmin 8208’s and one 8212, the AIS functionality is great. Bought the radio thru Gill Travis thru his semperfifishing site on the hull truth. Excellent person to work with and great price
 
Hi Doug,
I'm looking at the same issues. Have 942xs with sonar & radar. Boat came with brand new Cobra MRF57W marine VHF which includes NMEA0183 in for GPS but no AIS. Think I will add Quark Marine AIS receiver/gps/wifi/multi. Will serve as backup GPS and feed AIS data out to both N2k and N0183 buses. Planning on using VHS DSC, once traffic threats are ID'd via AIS or Radar to hail directly or put out an "All Boats" safety call to let other know I'm in the area. The higher power DSC call should be more effective than a low power AIS xmitter. DSC has some very interesting functionality and seems to be under utilized. DSC hailing should get more responses if used correctly.
 
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I agree with others to just install an AIS device and leave other stuff alone. Or if you want to make VHF changes, do them as a separate project.


Vesper gets good marks, but I don't have any personal experience with them.


I do like the EmTrak devices. SRT in the UK makes the guts of pretty much every AIS device on the market with exception of Furuno. EmTrak is SRT's retail branded product, and they are about the only thing that is a good deal bought through West Marine.


I like Class A AIS, but keep in mind that it can be significantly more difficult to install than Class B. I had and installed the A100 which happens to be rebranded by most of the electronics vendors. Mine was Comnav, but it's the same product. Great product, and fantastic deals available as they flush inventory now that the A200 has been released.


But unlike Class B, Class A will not operate correctly without being tied into a number of your boat's instruments, several of which you probably don't have. Class B uses it's built-in GPS and will operate as a completely self-contained device. All you need to do is connect the AIS output data to your chart plotter or other display device. That's 2 NMEA 0183 wires, or one NMEA N2K plug and you are done.


With Class A, the built-in GPS is strictly a backup, and the AIS MUST be connected to the boat's primary GPS, HDT, ROT sensors. And these MUST be NMEA 0183. And heading MUST be HDT which is true heading, not magnetic, and I only know of two ways to get that. It's expected to come from a gyro which you won't have, or a satellite compass which you probably don't have. Those are the only devices that natively produce true heading.


The other way to do it is with one of a few magnetic heading sensors that are capable of deriving HDT if, and only if, you feed variation to the heading sensor from some other source like a chart plotter. Also some better GPSes emit variation. Heading sensors are typically output only, so are normally not wired up to receive data. But if you do wire it up that way, and feed it Variation, it will output NMEA 0183 HDT. Sometimes there are config settings that have to be updated to make this happen as well. The two heading sensors I know of that can do this are Maretron and Furuno. There might be others, but those are the only ones I have been able to find.


So just be aware that installing Class A can take you down a slipper slope on a boat with typical recreational electronics. Now if your boat is set up more like a commercial boat with a Sat compass, and NMEA 0183 for the key data types, then it can be pretty straight forward.


Also note that without the above connections correctly made, the A100 will still work, sort of. The problem is that it will be in a constant state of alarm. Anytime any of the above data goes missing, it alarms and reverts to the best data it can produce using it's internal GPS. ALl this stuff is etched into the IMO specification for Class A AIS, so all CLass A products will behave the same way, including requiring the use of NMEA 0183 for the sensor data.
 
I've been looking closely at the AMEC B600 for my setup. It'll do full NMEA multiplexing, so I can plug a laptop with OpenCPN into it and get AIS plus any other NMEA data I've got flowing around. And it's class B SOTDMA. There are a few other comparable looking units out there, but if there's not a reason to stick with the same brand as your plotters, etc. then this one is a bit cheaper.
 
rslifkin said:
I've been looking closely at the AMEC B600 for my setup. It'll do full NMEA multiplexing, so I can plug a laptop with OpenCPN into it and get AIS plus any other NMEA data I've got flowing around. And it's class B SOTDMA. There are a few other comparable looking units out there, but if there's not a reason to stick with the same brand as your plotters, etc. then this one is a bit cheaper.
Click to expand...


I think with AIS there is little to no reason to stick with your plotter brand. The NMEA communications (0183 and N2K) is standardized and seems fully interoperable over the past several years.


The only place I have seen issues is when you have multiple AIS devices, like a receiver in your VHF, and then you add a separate transceiver. Or you have a receiver in your VHF, and add a second VHF with another receiver. This is the area that nobody seems to have thought through. In those cases, I would proceed with caution, and be ready to return products that don't work to your satisfaction.
 
Thanks for all the help. What does multiplexing mean in regard to ais?
 
Dougcole said:
Thanks for all the help. What does multiplexing mean in regard to ais?
Click to expand...



It’s really a completely independent function, and involves some form of translation and/or forwarding of data from one port or network to another.

Many AIS devices, for example, have both 0183 and N2K connections. Some will take data off one, combine it with data from another, and send back out the combined data.

The details can vary quite a bit. Sometimes data is just forwarded from one port to another. Sometimes data from two ports is combined and sent out on a third. Sometime there is translation between 0183 and N2K. Sometimes the device is also a WiFi access point or station and can send data over WiFi so tablets and phones can access it. There are tons of combinations, so important to look closely at what you want vs what’s in any given product.
 
Best I can determine, a NMEA multiplexer combines data streams from multiple sources (like GPS and AIS and others)and routes it out thru one or more other data stream formats - N0183,N2K, wifi, and or USB.
 
I am curious what you mean by "doesn't play well" in the comment about the current VHF radio. Sounds like a mis-wire, because the NMEA device communication standards are universal.
 
Related to this, AIS clash is posing a big problem for me in selecting VHFs for my boat.

The VHFs from ICom and Standard Horizon that support remote stations “command mics”, and/or that support a rear-connected mic vs front connected, all also include AIS receivers. So if I want mic flexibility, I am also stuck with an unwanted AIS receiver.

Now I could just ignore the AIS receiver, but you can’t. If you want Incoming DSC alerts to show up on your chart plotter, you also get AIS data too. No choice.

AIS can be a lot of data, and two extra copies from two VHFs is a lot of extraneous traffic. And I have encountered a number of display devices that barf when there are multiple sources of AIS data.

If only these devices had an Off switch for the AIS, but they don’t.

Reading the most recent Standard Horizon manual for the 6000 (I know, it’s sad that I read manuals) it looks like they might have fixed this, but I need to confirm. SH has two 0183 output ports, and it looks like they have split out AIS out put and DSC onto the two separate channels. Before you couldn’t, or could but only if you run the second channel at 4800 bd.

I hate having to pay for an AIS and N2K interface that I don’t want, but it looks like I’ll have to if I want the mic flexibility.
 
caltexflanc said:
I am curious what you mean by "doesn't play well" in the comment about the current VHF radio. Sounds like a mis-wire, because the NMEA device communication standards are universal.
Click to expand...


You are correct, it's a wiring issue. I should have more accurately said that I don't play well with it, as I couldn't figure out the wiring for the life of me, despite two calls to Garmin tech support and one to icom. Icom told me one thing and Garmin told me another, neither solution worked. Eventually, I just gave up.
 
twistedtree said:
Related to this, AIS clash is posing a big problem for me in selecting VHFs for my boat.

The VHFs from ICom and Standard Horizon that support remote stations “command mics”, and/or that support a rear-connected mic vs front connected, all also include AIS receivers. So if I want mic flexibility, I am also stuck with an unwanted AIS receiver.
Click to expand...

My SH GX1850s support a remote mic (not the multiple remote mics some of the high end ones support though, just 1 per unit). No AIS receiver on them either. The main mic is front mount though. They've also got NMEA2000 (if you don't need that the GX1800 is the same thing with 0183 only).

So if you don't need the hailer functionality and can live with 1 remote mic per unit, the best solution might just be to buy somewhat lower end VHFs.
 
twistedtree said:
Related to this, AIS clash is posing a big problem for me in selecting VHFs for my boat.

The VHFs from ICom and Standard Horizon that support remote stations “command mics”, and/or that support a rear-connected mic vs front connected, all also include AIS receivers. So if I want mic flexibility, I am also stuck with an unwanted AIS receiver.
Click to expand...
Sailor VHF's seem to come without a AIS receiver: https://www.cobham.com/communications-and-connectivity/satcom/radio-communication-at-sea/maritime-vhf-radios/?
 
twistedtree said:
The VHFs from ICom and Standard Horizon that support remote stations “command mics”, and/or that support a rear-connected mic vs front connected, all also include AIS receivers. So if I want mic flexibility, I am also stuck with an unwanted AIS receiver......

I hate having to pay for an AIS and N2K interface that I don’t want, but it looks like I’ll have to if I want the mic flexibility.
Click to expand...
Most likely I don't completely understand your problem. I already have black box AIS & GPS but needed a new VHF on my panel. (My backup VHF is a SH with bilt in GPS) The solution was an iCom 506-11...great sound, fog horn program, hailer, etc but no AIS!
 

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Dougcole said:
You are correct, it's a wiring issue. I should have more accurately said that I don't play well with it, as I couldn't figure out the wiring for the life of me, despite two calls to Garmin tech support and one to icom. Icom told me one thing and Garmin told me another, neither solution worked. Eventually, I just gave up.
Click to expand...

Try posting your issue on The Hull Truth's marine electronics forum. There are some very savvy posters and pros on there. I wouldn't be surprised if your answer is in the archives already.
 
Glad to see this thread as I've been researching various options for a new VHF and also AIS (probably Class B transponder).

twistedtree said:
The VHFs from ICom and Standard Horizon that support remote stations “command mics”, and/or that support a rear-connected mic vs front connected, all also include AIS receivers. So if I want mic flexibility, I am also stuck with an unwanted AIS receiver.
Click to expand...

Would the Icom M506-31 do what you want? That is the rear-mic, NMEA 2000 (but no AIS) model variant. I despise dangling mic cords so have considered this option. IIRC the rear mic variant might reduce options for additional mics (since you are minus the front position), but I only want one mic so don't remember the exact details. Maybe that's why you ruled it out though.

I am also considering the Icom M400BB VHF, which is just a black box and a Command Mic IV. But it's kind of annoying to me that it's only NMEA 0183, no repeat feature, etc.

*****


The AIS setup I've been considering is the Vesper XB-8000. It has two features beyond AIS that I like. 1) I could use the included GPS antenna to bolster the reportedly-weak internal Raymarine Axiom MFD's receiver (thus effectively discounting it by the cost of the Raymarine one I was going to buy). 2) The anchor alarm looks useful. Side bonus 3) If I do get the M400BB the XB-8000 can be the 4800 baud NMEA 0183 source for it, since my MFD's no longer supply it.

Of course now I'm wondering if the XB-8000 is suddenly going to get cheaper or less desirable (right after I buy it) because now SODTMA is the thing (and their Cortex base unit will be new and shiny).

From casual forum reading it sounds as though, for many people, the ability to make a DSC call right from the plotter doesn't get used as often as expected; instead they make use of knowing the vessel name via AIS and just make a manual radio call (sure beats "Vessel at 'xyz' position?").

Frosty
 
Ten years ago we installed a Simrad Class B with separate VHF antenna and external GPS. It is tied into the Furuno NN3s and Nobeltec laptop, each of these having a different shared GPS.

For us, the key is simple and workable. We are not too concerned about ultimate alerts being via the VHF for "safety" as this feature to the best I can understand is only as good as the VHF reception. Thus we rely upon an ACR EPIRB and or Spots for individuals.

Some years ago I was directly involved in a rescue involving an EPIRB signal that was picked up by a Russian satellite, the Russians alerted the Canadians where the rescue was needed, the Canadians alerted the USCG who performed the rescue via helicopter out of Juneau. Since that time I'm a believer in EPIRBs being the first (not only though) line of dire emergency notification.
 
I've got a bunch of different brands represented on my boat. I really haven't had any interoperability problems w.r.t. AIS.

Each of my VHF radios has an AIS receiver. I have two OpenCPN plotters, a Raymarine plotter, and a couple of smaller Raymarine digitial instruments. I also have an EmTrak transceiver.

The only problem I ever had was that the transceiver would send information about my boat out that the receivers would receive -- not recognize as my own boat -- and proximity alarm.

So, I pipe the NMEA AIS data from the transceiver to the plotters and instruments, so they don't get the own ship contact off of the air. The VHF radios still do, so I see myself on their displays -- but they are set not to alarm. If the transceiver would ever fail, or when it is off, the NMEA data comes from the radios to the plotters, so I do have 2 layers of fail-safe data sources for other boats.
 
I use the Vesper XB8000 AIS. It is a Class B system, that allows the input of most types of data from most brands of equipment, all to be shared on either 0183 or 2000 connections and can be broadcast over it's own WiFi network. It is pretty much a plug and play unit (at least in my case).

I also recommend a dedicated AIS antenna as opposed to a shared unit. The "special splitter" required to share, is almost as much money as most dedicated antennas and it does give you the ability to "repurpose" the additional antenna should your VHF antenna fail in any way (at least temporarily).
With the unit having built in WiFi, I can use a cell phone or IPad to control the Vesper including using the great built in anchor alarm. It uses very little power so having the anchor alarm on at all times when anchored is not an issue (has it's own GPS antenna).
Had it one full cruising season (over 100 days on the boat) and anchored out for about 70 nights. Very happy with it and didn't have to change any existing equipment (most vintage about 2002).
 
I recently installed a Matsutec/Onwa black box AIS, puck type GPS antenna and separate Glomex AIS antenna.
Cost less than $500 aud total including freight and took under an hour to get it installed and all up and running on opencpn.

Works a treat.
 
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I don’t understand the heading argument. Not sure heading is useful info if CMG is so easily available
 
rslifkin said:
My SH GX1850s support a remote mic (not the multiple remote mics some of the high end ones support though, just 1 per unit). No AIS receiver on them either. The main mic is front mount though. They've also got NMEA2000 (if you don't need that the GX1800 is the same thing with 0183 only).

So if you don't need the hailer functionality and can live with 1 remote mic per unit, the best solution might just be to buy somewhat lower end VHFs.
Click to expand...

The 1800 was high on my list, but I really want to be able to relocate the front wired mic.


My real gripe is that non of these devices let you turn off the AIS receiver, or shut off the broadcast data on the various coms channels.
 
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