Sort of a loop

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tiz

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Probably not too early to start planning for a trip we'd like to take.

Basically nyc to erie canal. Through canal with possible finger lakes visit. At buffalo, find best way to st lawrence river.

Then exit st lawrence to get into lake champlain. Down to hudson and back to nyc.

I read that the welland canal is to be avoided when getting from buffalo into st lawrence. Not sure we want to backtrack through Erie Canal to get into lake ontario via oswego canal. Also not sure we want to run the length of lake ontario. Im most fuzzy on thos leg of the trip ( buffalo to st lawrence).

Then, what are best options to get from st lawrence back into champlain?

We are mainship 390, 40ft with 3.7ft draft. Air draft can be 13.5 with mast and bimini down. I think we're around 15.5 mast down and bimini up. Will definitely confirm that.

Ideas? Any blogs of folks that have run this route?

--kevin
 
For getting from Buffalo to Lake Ontario, you have only 2 choices. You can backtrack on the Erie Canal to the Oswego Canal and get to Lake Ontario (and then the St. Lawrence) from there. Or you can go through the Welland Canal. The Welland will be a bit faster than a back track and will take you past a bit more stuff you otherwise wouldn't see.
 
rslifkin said:
For getting from Buffalo to Lake Ontario, you have only 2 choices. You can backtrack on the Erie Canal to the Oswego Canal and get to Lake Ontario (and then the St. Lawrence) from there. Or you can go through the Welland Canal. The Welland will be a bit faster than a back track and will take you past a bit more stuff you otherwise wouldn't see.
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Thanks for confirming. I read that welland is mainly for large ships, yachts are not a priority and its a grimy industrial area.

How is the trip eastbound on lake ontario. We go 8 kts so need ports to stay at along the way.

--kevin
 
tiz said:
Thanks for confirming. I read that welland is mainly for large ships, yachts are not a priority and its a grimy industrial area.

How is the trip eastbound on lake ontario. We go 8 kts so need ports to stay at along the way.

--kevin
Click to expand...

From what I've heard, transits through the Welland are a bit more pleasant now that pleasure craft are scheduled through and go through in a big group rather than just being fit in where possible. It's definitely a more challenging trip through the locks than the Erie is, but it's also over and done in a day.

Heading east on Lake Ontario from the Welland you've got quite a few stops you can make. Right near the Welland Canal you've got a marina in St. Catherines. Then you've got Niagara On the Lake on the Niagara River. On the other side of the Niagara River (at which point you're back in the US) you've got Youngstown. Continuing east from there, you get to Wilson. There's Newfane / Olcott after that, but I'm not sure what's there for facilities. Next option is Point Breeze. After that is Rochester (our home port).

Continuing east from there you have Pultneyville (it's a small place and a bit of a tight squeeze for an MS390, but do-able). Sodus Bay has a few options for you and after that you get to Fair Haven (one of the more anchoring friendly stops). Oswego is next and despite being fairly industrial, there's quite a bit within walking distance. After that, you head up towards Henderson Harbor and Sackets Harbor. Next stopping point from there is Cape Vincent at the mouth of the St. Lawrence River.

Those stops are assuming you'd want to stay along the US shore of Lake Ontario. There are plenty of stops on the Canadian side as well, but I'm less familiar with them. The Welland Canal does require crossing into Canada to transit.
 
You will also have several more large commercial locks on the St Lawrence, much like the Welland.


One alternate route that bypasses all but one or two of the large locks is to take the Rideau from Kinston, ON (NE corner of lake Onterio) up to Ottawa, then take the Ottawa rive down to Montreal. But that has a couple of big locks too, though not as busy as the St Lawrence locks.


After Montreal the St Lawrence is tidal. In Sorel you can get into the Richelieu River which takes you south to Lake Champlain.
 
Why do you have to go as far west as Buffalo? I'd suggest finger lakes then north to Oswego, then to Ottawa on the Rideau Canal then Montreal and back through Lake Champlain.

If you do go through to Buffalo it's not hard to come back via the Welland Canal. The Canadian shore of Lake Ontario has a few stops as you head east. The Welland schedules 3-4 days/week for downbound pleasure craft. It's $200 and you need 2 people aboard.
 
Not familuar with the recreational scheduling on Welland but you need 3 aboard uobound onlyb2 downbound.
If you do that Id staybon N shore as on Avg the Wx delays will be less w NW winds.
Id dpendva little timebin 1,000 Is then backbto Kingston and take Ridesu to Ottawa... wonderful trip. We havent done ottawa Riv to St Lawrence then Chambly to Lk Champlain and Champlain canal back to Hudson.
I agree w suggestion to dobNY canal to Finger Lakes or Rochester area then back track to Oswego. You wont miss much and plenty of nice stops to aee.
My Bacchus website had cruising notes on much of the area of interest.
PM me with specific wuestions and Im happy to offer options & opinions.
We've done Rideau sll the way to Ottawa & halfway 10+ times same wc1,000 Is.
For another time plan on the Trent Severn Waterway to Georgian Bay... another bucket list/ must do trip IMO also covered in the cruising notes section on Bacchus website.
PM if any questions
 
iu
 
I would backtrack on the Western Erie. I could spend a whole summer on the Western Erie Canal. A town every five miles and absolutely dirt cheap. When you turn around, everything looks different and you can stop at towns you bypassed.
 
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Jeff F said:
Why do you have to go as far west as Buffalo? I'd suggest finger lakes then north to Oswego, then to Ottawa on the Rideau Canal then Montreal and back through Lake Champlain.

If you do go through to Buffalo it's not hard to come back via the Welland Canal. The Canadian shore of Lake Ontario has a few stops as you head east. The Welland schedules 3-4 days/week for downbound pleasure craft. It's $200 and you need 2 people aboard.
Click to expand...


Really just want to run the entire thing. Your point noted. (Wife born in buffalo)……
 
PierreR said:
I would backtrack on the Western Erie. I could spend a whole summer on the Western Erie Canal. A town every five miles and absolutely dirt cheap. When you turn around, everything looks different and you can stop at towns you bypassed.
Click to expand...

Definitely not opposed to this. Would like to see more opinion on it.

—Kevin
 
tiz said:
Really just want to run the entire thing. Your point noted. (Wife born in buffalo)……
Click to expand...
Fair enough.

I love the western Erie and agree with PierreR. I did Buffalo->Oswego earlier this year and It's a great trip. Lots of public dock space at every town. So if you enjoy it, then just turn around at Buffalo and head back and out at Oswego.
 
Just finished that route, doing:
Erie, Oswego, Kingston, Rideau, Ottawa, Montreal, up to Sorel, down the Richelieu to Lake Champlain, Champlain locks, back to the Hudson.


Was no problem. The two big locks in Montreal requires payment online and must have two on board. Not hard but a bit confusing as when you can go through, and the waiting docks only have room for 2 or three boats, so you might have to station keep or anchor.


Be sure to check with the lock Masters ahead of the pool between Lock 3 and 4 to be sure it's low enough for your 15.5 boat. They will lower the pool if needed. There's a low RR bridge there that won't move.
 
You could also continue up to Georgian Bay, then go through the Trent-Severn waterway back to Lake Ontario and the St Lawrence....
 
gholmesbm said:
You could also continue up to Georgian Bay, then go through the Trent-Severn waterway back to Lake Ontario and the St Lawrence....
Click to expand...
Yep. If you've got the time this is a great route.
 
Consider Quebec City

We just did an enjoyable run from Eastern CT to Quebec City. You might consider that alternative, unless you really are eager to do the Erie Canal. (BTW, We enjoyed cutting up through the Harlem River for a change, as we’ve done the scenic East River and around the Battery route to countless times before.)

The ride up the Hudson was pleasant and lots to look at. If you need fuel before entering either canal, I recommend a stop at the Albany YC fuel dock for reasonable prices. The Champlain locks are large but still easily done with one crew. Ft. Edwards has a great free dock midway up (or down) the canal, with an easy face dock, free power, and nearby facilities and a brewery and restaurants within a five minute walk.

Lake Champlain is always beautiful when behaving, and Burlington is worth a couple of days, with the great Foam Brewery and restaurant close at hand, and plentiful other eateries nearby.

Just south of the Chambly Canal, you can tie up for free in St. Jean Sur Richelieu, and enjoy some great pubs nearby (seeing a trend here?). As you probably know, Canadian fuel is heavily taxed, (around $8 Canadian per gallon as of 8/23), so plan accordingly. Quebec City is 100 miles east of Sorel on the St. Lawrence, with a helpful 2+ knot current shortening that leg. The Vieux Port Marina is a great place to put in. Around $100Can/night for solid modern docks, protected by a lock. Great people and an easy walk to great food and all of the beautiful old streets and historic sites Quebec is famous for. (Way, way more enjoyable than Montreal, in my humble opinion).

I’m not sure I understand the the current fascination with loops, so I simply reversed my course back down to CT. If you do have a yearn for looping, some like to continue downstream from Quebec, then down along the East Coast and back through LI Sound.
 
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It's not too early. We started planning in December for a trip that started in June.
Lists and lists and lists of lists until you finally untie. ..
 
twistedtree said:
After Montreal the St Lawrence is tidal. In Sorel you can get into the Richelieu River which takes you south to Lake Champlain.
Click to expand...


AKA the triangle loop. We've done it, your boat would be great for that. NYCanals to Oswego, cross Lake Ontario to Kingston. With the appropriate WX window, it can be an easy crossing. Then up thru the 1,000 Islands and on to the St. Lawrence. You can hit Montreal, then take a stbd turn at Sorel and down the Richelieu and onto Lake Champlain. It's a terrific trip. So much to see. The St. Lawrence is big, but don't be intimidated. Montreal is great, the folks at the Yacht Club are very accommodating. We loved that trip. Don't rush it!
 
Greetings,
Mr. M. 1000 Islands to Montreal? WHAT??? and miss the most scenic part of the journey? 1000 islands end about Brockville. Backtrack to Kingston (all of 47 stature miles) and go to Montreal via the Rideau Canal.


The St. Lawrence from Iroquois to Montreal is pretty dull. For that matter there's not much in the 1000 Islands either. Yes, I'll admit a few interesting places but...
 
RT Firefly said:
Greetings,
Mr. M. 1000 Islands to Montreal? WHAT??? and miss the most scenic part of the journey? 1000 islands end about Brockville. Backtrack to Kingston (all of 47 stature miles) and go to Montreal via the Rideau Canal.
Click to expand...


That's what we did. From Kingston, we took a couple of days, went out into and around the thousand islands region, then back to Kingston. Then took the Rideau/Ottawa River route to Montreal.
 
RT Firefly said:
Greetings,
Mr. M. 1000 Islands to Montreal? WHAT??? and miss the most scenic part of the journey? 1000 islands end about Brockville. Backtrack to Kingston (all of 47 stature miles) and go to Montreal via the Rideau Canal.


The St. Lawrence from Iroquois to Montreal is pretty dull. For that matter there's not much in the 1000 Islands either. Yes, I'll admit a few interesting places but...
Click to expand...
twistedtree said:
That's what we did. From Kingston, we took a couple of days, went out into and around the thousand islands region, then back to Kingston. Then took the Rideau/Ottawa River route to Montreal.
Click to expand...
That's exactly what I'd recommend as well.
Alex Bay, Singer & Boldt Castles are the highlights. Backtrack a different route ( north bateau channel) to Kingston and do the Rideau for an exceptional relaxing & scenic cruise.
Get some local knowledge along the way as there are great stops and sights along the way.

[Edit] don't miss the antique boat museum in Clayton. It's a must if you haven't been there and still interesting & informative a second time.
 
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Lake Chanmplain Loop

I've done the Welland many times, and you'll be traveling in a much better direction going "upstream" but actually going down in the locks as they empty from Lake Erie to Lake Ontario.

Just remember, you'll be doing all the locks of the Erie Canal, Welland, and the large locks of the St. Lawrence and then the Champlain Canal. I don't know the exact number, but it's a lot!! At least you're going with the current most of the time.

Check the airdraft on your boat because one bridge on the Champlain is fixed at 17 feet.
Also, check the Welland website as you can only go on certain days in a certain direction when on a pleasure craft. Good luck.
 
Thanks all. Lots to consider. Now leaning harder to backtracking from buffalo to oswego/ontario/rideau/st lawrence to richleau and into champlain and down to hudson.
 
This is definitely an interesting route - many thanks.

--Kevin
 
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