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Old 04-02-2021, 12:41 PM   #21
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Can you recommend the name of a company that can service a system that needs to be hydro tested but will put the halon back in?
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Old 04-02-2021, 01:34 PM   #22
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Can you recommend the name of a company that can service a system that needs to be hydro tested but will put the halon back in?
In your area that should not be a problem to google up a few "fire service" companies which could do it, unless your state has Californicated the rules to prevent it.
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Old 04-02-2021, 10:31 PM   #23
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Read up on the control box and the systems that could / should be shut down.
In addition to the ones rgano mentioned shut fown of any blowers should be included. Mine also cuts the alternator field wire so there is no output from the alt.
Why is the field cut out necessary if the system shuts down the engine?

This article covers many of the details of selection and installation of a fixed fire extinguishing system https://stevedmarineconsulting.com/w...reEx125_03.pdf
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Old 04-03-2021, 06:41 AM   #24
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Why is the field cut out necessary if the system shuts down the engine?

This article covers many of the details of selection and installation of a fixed fire extinguishing system https://stevedmarineconsulting.com/w...reEx125_03.pdf
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I have no idea but found thats how Mainship wired mine. Actually they wired it through The wrong set of contacts and it opened the circuit when running normal vs closing it. Took alt off twice to have tested as I wasn't getting output.. Took me some time to trace everything out and discover how the alt was fed.
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Old 04-03-2021, 07:37 AM   #25
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I know that was one of the things they wanted to know about when I was getting insurance and talking to the rep on the phone. I have two fire suppression systems (Fireboy, whatever that is, Xintex? and the older CO2 system), but I wondered if I would have got insurance from them, without one.
My last insurance company asked me for a self survey. On it it asked about an engine room fire suppression system.

My boat did not have one and I explained the cost and difficulty in doing it right, and the results of auto shutdown at the wrong time.

The said OK, we understand and renewed my insurance without a premium change.

So the best I can answer is, not always, but I would be prepared to bear the cost of one at any time.
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Old 04-10-2021, 01:18 PM   #26
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My last insurance company asked me for a self survey. On it it asked about an engine room fire suppression system.

My boat did not have one and I explained the cost and difficulty in doing it right, and the results of auto shutdown at the wrong time.

The said OK, we understand and renewed my insurance without a premium change.

So the best I can answer is, not always, but I would be prepared to bear the cost of one at any time.
I think a lot about about removing the CO2 system, because the five foot long tank for it, is secured on the port engine room hull, and makes getting to that side of that engine, less than fun. And, you would think the Fireboy would be adequate by itself, especially since we're all diesel.
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Old 04-10-2021, 02:30 PM   #27
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This boat came to me with a soup to nuts fire suppression system complete with alarm and auto shutdown for engine and generator, but my trawler came with nada. While I did not install a complete system with auto shutdown on the trawler, I did feel much more comfortable after I placed a Halon bottle in the ER sized for the space with release alarms on both flying bridge and lower helm which would have allowed me the warning necessary to shut the engines and genny down.
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Old 04-14-2021, 05:06 PM   #28
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Fire at sea is one of the worst scenarios to end up in. And if it happens, 5 miles off shore is "at sea". Every second can make a difference. I have my setup. Both engine rooms and generator room. All it takes is a leak in a fuel line and a hot manifold. The ignition temp of diesel is relatively low. Plus yes, the insurance liked it.
No offense, but when you say the ignition temp of diesel is relatively low and a diesel leak on a hot manifold can lead to fire, I have to disagree.
It's my understanding that diesel needs to be "compressed" to a very high PSI (i.e. inside cylinder) in order for it to "combust". A diesel leak on a motor shouldn't be a big deal. My thought is most fires in the engine room of a diesel boat are from an electrical source??

Other thoughts?

Obviously agree with robust fire suppression systems onboard
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Old 04-14-2021, 05:15 PM   #29
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https://www.passagemaker.com/lifesty...ession-systems


Fire in the engine room is an experience most owners would rather not have. It is a frighteningly dangerous proposition, and one that can prove expensive in so many ways.


Fortunately, it is not a common problem aboard diesel-powered vessels. Indeed, it is so infrequent that there is very little information about engine-room fires, and separating fires aboard diesel-powered boats from the more common gasoline-powered inboard boats is all but impossible, even for the USCG's Office of Boating Safety.


While it is a rare occurrence, it does happen. According to Tom Hale, chairman of the Technical Board of the American Boat & Yacht Council (ABYC), there are perhaps 50 fires aboard inboard diesel boats each year. Given the thousands of pleasure boats on the waterways, this is a very small number.


The general consensus is that with better reporting data, we would likely determine that fires are not related nearly so much to propulsion machinery and fuel systems, as they may be to other causes for which preventative measures can be tak en. That list could include the electrical system, in the galley, and accidents.
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Old 04-14-2021, 08:06 PM   #30
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No offense, but when you say the ignition temp of diesel is relatively low and a diesel leak on a hot manifold can lead to fire, I have to disagree.
It's my understanding that diesel needs to be "compressed" to a very high PSI (i.e. inside cylinder) in order for it to "combust". A diesel leak on a motor shouldn't be a big deal. My thought is most fires in the engine room of a diesel boat are from an electrical source??

Other thoughts?

Obviously agree with robust fire suppression systems onboard
Dripping diesel is unlikely to cause a fire unless it's landing on something very hot. Even then it'll probably make a bunch of smoke before there's much fire. But a cracked injector line or other source of spraying diesel under pressure can be a big problem very quickly if it hits something hot enough.
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Old 04-14-2021, 09:52 PM   #31
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Dripping diesel is unlikely to cause a fire unless it's landing on something very hot. Even then it'll probably make a bunch of smoke before there's much fire. But a cracked injector line or other source of spraying diesel under pressure can be a big problem very quickly if it hits something hot enough.
Agree. Diesel is very difficult to ignite when it is cool. But when it is hot it will ignite. We had to have boat crew candidates put out a live fire. The fire chief wanted to use diesel floating on water. We tried matches and finally a road flare and could not get it started. I suggested adding a bit of gas and then it went right up. One candidate extinguished the fire. Then with the diesel hot it would reignite with a match. So get some dripping or spraying on a hot manifold or turbo and it will ignite. Our turbo exhaust is around 700 degrees. Certainly hot enough to ignite diesel, fortunately there isnít a diesel supply near the turbo.
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Old 04-15-2021, 11:44 AM   #32
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https://www.passagemaker.com/lifesty...ession-systems


Fire in the engine room is an experience most owners would rather not have. It is a frighteningly dangerous proposition, and one that can prove expensive in so many ways.


Fortunately, it is not a common problem aboard diesel-powered vessels. Indeed, it is so infrequent that there is very little information about engine-room fires, and separating fires aboard diesel-powered boats from the more common gasoline-powered inboard boats is all but impossible, even for the USCG's Office of Boating Safety.


While it is a rare occurrence, it does happen. According to Tom Hale, chairman of the Technical Board of the American Boat & Yacht Council (ABYC), there are perhaps 50 fires aboard inboard diesel boats each year. Given the thousands of pleasure boats on the waterways, this is a very small number.


The general consensus is that with better reporting data, we would likely determine that fires are not related nearly so much to propulsion machinery and fuel systems, as they may be to other causes for which preventative measures can be tak en. That list could include the electrical system, in the galley, and accidents.
This article was written a very long time ago, Tom Hale, who is quoted, hasn't worked for ABYC for 20 years, and Parlatore left PMM in 2016. It says it was originally printed in 2012, but that might not even be correct, I suspect it's older. The article is outdated, here's one example...

"If it is determined that the air change rate is greater (or more frequent) than once per minute, then there is an additional recommendation for an automatic fire-extinguishing system: the system, once triggered, should automatically discharge the suppressant agent, and also turn off engines, generators, and blowers. Just shut everything down, and keep the concentration level high enough to extinguish the fire."

The air turnover aspect of the standard was eliminated long ago, here's how it now reads...

4.8.5.3 Diesel Boats
4.8.5.3.1 The system shall be designed and installed so that:
4.8.5.3.1.1 the engine(s), generator(s), and blower(s) located in the protected space shut down automatically and after discharge the minimum required design concentration in accordance with A-4.8.11 must remain.


Diesel fuel is far safer than gasoline, however, it can and does burn (I use it to help start my fire pit fires), and it does not need to be compressed to do so. The flash point, the point at which it vaporizes enough to be flammable, is a minimum of 125F for #2 diesel (100F for #1). If it is heated to that temperature and an ignition source is present it can ignite. The auto-ignition temperature, the temp at which it will combust is between 950 and 1200F, which is lower than gasoline incidentally.

If diesel runs onto a hot engine, it will vaporize, and if an ignition source is present it can ignite. If it leaks onto a exhaust manifold, and the engine is running hard, it's possible it could auto-ignite, but the exterior of an uninsulated portion of diesel exhaust won't be that hot unless the engine is running at or close to WOT. If a high pressure fuel line springs a leak, and it fills a hot ER with vaporized fuel, it could ignite, the alternator could be an ignition source. All of these cases are rare.

Diesel powered vessels do catch fire and it often has nothing to do with fuel. Still, the USCG and CFR have a slew of regulations that apply to gasoline powered vessel fuel and electrical system that do not apply to recreational diesel vessels because statistically they don't catch fire or explode as often as gasoline powered vessels.

IMO, every diesel engine room should be equipped with a fixed fire suppression system, one that meets current ABYC Standards.
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Old 04-15-2021, 11:57 AM   #33
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True Steve but the part I reprinted still hold true I believe.
I usually post stuff like that so some will think and research further.
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Old 04-15-2021, 04:30 PM   #34
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I own a Cruisers Yacht 3850 and it has two Caterpillar diesel engines. My question for the group is do I need a Halon or Fire Bouy fire suppressant system onboard??
It might be nice to have, but there's no legal requirement to have one and the vast majority of diesel powered recreational boats do not have one.

Engine room fires on diesel powered recreational boats are pretty rare.
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Old 04-15-2021, 05:07 PM   #35
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How can you say that the vast majority of diesel boats do not have a built in fire extinguishing system? Where did that data come from? I have done hundreds and hundreds of vessel safety checks and can’t remember one diesel boat that didn’t have a built in system. There may be some out there but I doubt that there is a vast majority that don’t have a system.
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Old 04-15-2021, 05:22 PM   #36
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How can you say that the vast majority of diesel boats do not have a built in fire extinguishing system? Where did that data come from? I have done hundreds and hundreds of vessel safety checks and canít remember one diesel boat that didnít have a built in system. There may be some out there but I doubt that there is a vast majority that donít have a system.
This is far from my experience in anything less than 40-plus feet.
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Old 04-15-2021, 08:51 PM   #37
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My surveyor told me that I needed an automatic system that would also shut down the engine in order to keep my insurance company happy. Extinguisher needs to be inspected ever 7 years (I think) and when it was inspected the tech said that they're required to confirm that it was correctly sized for the cu/ft of the space. So they need to inspect them in place, you can't just take the cylinder to him
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Old 04-15-2021, 10:06 PM   #38
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An interesting idea is "Fire Port" I think they are called. I have them aboard so long I forget. They are 2" diameter clear plastic ports which are installed over your engine space. You can then check your engine space for flames without lifting the hatch, block your intakes, then punch out one or more ports and inset your extinguisher/s.
I've never had to use them but they seemed like a great idea. Most below deck fires don't really go wild until a hatch is raised. Plugging my engine space intakes would take about 40 seconds for me.
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Old 04-16-2021, 07:21 AM   #39
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True Steve but the part I reprinted still hold true I believe.
I usually post stuff like that so some will think and research further.
That 'further research' includes clicking on the article link you included, and the article is dated/inaccurate. However, I'm not blaming you, you have no way of knowing this, this is really on PMM, such legacy tech articles should include an accuracy disclaimer, "This is a reprint, to the best of our knowledge, this article was accurate when it was printed, however..."
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Old 04-16-2021, 07:24 AM   #40
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My surveyor told me that I needed an automatic system that would also shut down the engine in order to keep my insurance company happy. Extinguisher needs to be inspected ever 7 years (I think) and when it was inspected the tech said that they're required to confirm that it was correctly sized for the cu/ft of the space. So they need to inspect them in place, you can't just take the cylinder to him
For ABYC compliance, an auto-shut down is required. The cu ft of the space should be confirmed, I do this routinely and periodically find under and over sized bottles. A proper inspection includes weighing the cylinder and testing the manual discharge cable (also an ABYC requirement) and demonstrating the auto shut down system.
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