Gas Tank Help

[motion30]

Fiberglass tanks aren't ideal for gasoline. Ethanol will hurt epoxy, so you have to find an appropriate coating to protect it.

I agree but these are diesel tanks. Vinyl Ester resin would be. best choice for gasoline tanks

 

[Comodave]

If they are indeed gas, not diesel, the regs are different. Not sure if you can have fittings in the bottom of a gas tank or not. Maybe an ABYC guru can help?

 

[rslifkin]

If they are indeed gas, not diesel, the regs are different. Not sure if you can have fittings in the bottom of a gas tank or not. Maybe an ABYC guru can help?

As far as I know, gas is top fittings only. Diesel is fine with bottom fittings.

 

[Comodave]

I finally cut my old 150 Gallon 8ft tank out of the boat, I just cut it up with a cutoff wheel . The gas was so old it had crystallized and was not explosive. It took me about 6 hours a day for 5 days to get her out. Mission accomplished !! Now I need info on experience tank builders that can build me 5 tanks with threaded ports at the bottom to connect them together. Any suggestions ?

That is what I thought too. He says threaded ports on the bottom. I would check the regs and verify what is ok.

 

[Irish Rambler]

If it was my boat I would do as several have suggested, lift the engine out of the way and remove the tank as a whole unit.
Just before you remove the tank take lots of photos from all angles with accurate measurements.
I would then get a stainless steel tank made in 312 bright annealed (mirror finish) on the interior with an 'X' shaped interior baffle to stop the tank from flexing, build the new tank to fit the profile of your hull for maximum storage. Make dummy cut outs in cardboard to show the tank builder how you wish it made. Fit 2 bolted inspection/ cleaning hatches about 6" x 10" so you can access/clean the whole tank at a later date, fit a level sender switch in one of them, build a slightly sloping floor to the bottom drain/outlet.
Take the fuel take off from the very bottom of the tank with a 'T' piece, one to feed the engine and it will become self cleaning, the other branch of the 'T' vertical and fit a vertical clear pipe with a valve top and bottom.
Secure the tank and bed it in closed cell expanded polyurethane which will stop condensation and remove the echo effect when partially empty.
All marine fuel tanks with a top suspended feed allow crud to build up in the sump, by drawing from the very bottom the tank is self cleaning and your primary and secondary filters do the job they were designed for.
When you refill your tank do it slowly with the top and bottom valves of your clear pipe open, fill in 100 gallon lots, mark each 100 gallons until you reach the top, close off the top and bottom valves and secure them with a little bit of wire for security.
You now have an accurate gauge fitted should you need it.
Obviously this applies to diesel tanks, and yes, its how I rebuilt my tank and thousands of sea miles later the tank is still spotlessly clean inside, the filters pick up any sediment without the need for fancy filtration systems that cost you an arm and a leg.
But hey ! If you like to play with big boys toys and have deep pockets, personally I prefer to keep it simple, practical and effective and spend my money on essentials but of course those are my own views.

 

[MYNantucket]

That is what I thought too. He says threaded ports on the bottom. I would check the regs and verify what is ok.

Hey Dave, Others on here have done their gas tanks that way to keep the level amongst all tanks the same.

 

[rslifkin]

Hey Dave, Others on here have done their gas tanks that way to keep the level amongst all tanks the same.

If you're talking diesel tanks, yes, it's been done and it's allowed. But if it's gasoline, ALL fittings must be in the top of the tank. No exceptions.

 

[Art]

If you're talking diesel tanks, yes, it's been done and it's allowed. But if it's gasoline, ALL fittings must be in the top of the tank. No exceptions.

That is the only wise way for gasoline tanks. As you and I know, being gas boat owners.

Gasoline is great - till it AIN'T! Having said that... I've also seen diesel boats burn due to fuel/engine problems. Big difference tho... the explosiveness of gasoline fumes compared to diesel burning.

 

[MYNantucket]

Ok people I have read through the ABYC regulations on fuel tanks and I see nothing stating you can’t have fittings down towards the bottom of the tank. So if anyone knows what section or page number says this please let me know. Thanks to Wallace and Sharon Gouk for supplying the ABYC specifications.

 

[jungpeter]

Ok people I have read through the ABYC regulations on fuel tanks and I see nothing stating you can’t have fittings down towards the bottom of the tank. So if anyone knows what section or page number says this please let me know. Thanks to Wallace and Sharon Gouk for supplying the ABYC specifications.

First, ABYC does not regulate anything. Theirs are simply recommendations. However, be aware-they're damn good ones.

Second, its the US Coast Guard, who DOES regulate marine safety, that unequivocally states, in the Code of Federal Regulations (CFRs), that gasoline tanks may NOT have ANY openings in either the sides or the bottom. And it's the USCG that has the power to enforce these regulations. They carry the rule of law.

If you fail to heed these CFRs, and you're stopped for a routine and astute safety inspection by the USCG, you're voyage will likely be terminated, and you'll be escorted ashore. That's your best possible outcome for incorrect DIY gasoline tankage.

Should you attempt to insure a vessel with improperly manufactured or installed fuel tanks, PARTICULARLY in a gasoline boat, you'll likely fail any survey beforehand, and you'll sail uninsured. Not a preferred position.

Should you manage to incinerate yourself (and hopefully not others as well), due to these self-same improper DIY gas tanks, good luck trying to escape liability for the accidental fire or explosion.

And eventually, you'll want to sell this boat and move on. Improper and unsafe gasoline fuel tankage? Good luck finding a buyer.

Frankly, I'm set back by a person who, with all good intentions, would attempt a gasoline fuel tank removal and replacement without sound, PROFESSIONAL help. This is not a good project for anyone other than a VERY, VERY seasoned veteran boater, or a VERY, VERY experienced professional boatwright, assisted by a competent boat yard with proper tools and equipment (and KNOWLEDGE) on how to accomplish this. Not available in Plano, Texas? Well, the boat got there somehow, from some place where this information and expertise is available. I suggest you bite the bullet, and return it.

Dunno about you, but my life and the lives of my family and those around me are well worth the admittedly large expense of doing this job correctly. Pay close heed to the anecdotal stories (some of which have previously been posted in this and other threads) of boat explosions and fires related to gasoline fuel tanks. Your life does, indeed, depend on it.

And, as you've apparently already used up 8 of your 9 lives by cutting up in situ your existing tankage and survived, I suggest you buy a lottery ticket immediately. You may be the luckiest person on the planet these day.

Regards,

Pete

 

[Comodave]

Thanks, Pete. That is what I thought but didn’t look it up. I know that you can’t have the drains in a gas fuel filter like you can on a diesel fuel filter. Thought the same about fuel tanks but wasn’t absolutely sure.

 

[rslifkin]

Thanks, Pete. That is what I thought but didn’t look it up. I know that you can’t have the drains in a gas fuel filter like you can on a diesel fuel filter. Thought the same about fuel tanks but wasn’t absolutely sure.

You can have a drain in a gas filter, but it has to be in a metal bowl, no clear plastic ones (unless it's mounted outside, like for an outboard powered boat). And the drains I've seen on the inboard-approved gas filters are always a bolt with a sealing washer, not a simple twist drain.

 

[MYNantucket]

Gas tank woes

Thanks Pete for the input. It was easy to determine if fuel tanks were empty, I used a dip stick in the tank and it came up dry then I connected a vacuum to the inlet and opened the gas lines to provide air to the tank. I could not smell any fumes coming from the tank. The fuel , what little the was, had crystallized. It was safe to cut... I was not worried at all.
So if I cannot put fuel leveling ports in the bottom of the tanks then I guess there is no replacement options available. I have a 150 gallon tank on the starboard side that works fine for now

 

[rslifkin]

There's gotta be a way to get a new tank or 2 in there without having to connect a whole bunch of them together. If you do it as 2 tanks, the plumbing just gets a bit more complex to either draw from both, or 1 at a time, or to be able to transfer from 1 to the other.

 

[MYNantucket]

It’s kinda funny all the posts I’ve seen before where other members have installed multiple tanks with pictures are all gone from here... lol

 

[MYNantucket]

There's gotta be a way to get a new tank or 2 in there without having to connect a whole bunch of them together. If you do it as 2 tanks, the plumbing just gets a bit more complex to either draw from both, or 1 at a time, or to be able to transfer from 1 to the other.

I can only see putting a 26gallon tank in that’s all that will fit through the aft opening. Hardly worth it

 

[MYNantucket]

BOAT stands for Bring Over Another Thousand.. lol

 

[ofer]

BOAT stands for Bring Over Another Thousand.. lol

inflation added another T...Ten Thousand

 

[AlanT]

Air hammer and chisel. First part of this video.

When taking cars to the crusher the gas tank had to be open. Used these on steel tanks with residual gas in them. Never liked doing it though.

There's something curiously addictive about watching a car being systematically taken apart with an air hammer!
~A

 

[rslifkin]

I can only see putting a 26gallon tank in that’s all that will fit through the aft opening. Hardly worth it

Then it's time to find a way to make a bigger opening somewhere or move something out of the way to get a bigger tank in. At some point, that'll be easier than trying to work within the confines of the small opening.

 

[MYNantucket]

Yeah I talked to the US Coast Guard in Corpus Christy and they said they don’t make that call. I will continue to find answers. Thanks everyone for your input. I may need to pull the engine and put what I can in there that way.

 

[rslifkin]

Yeah I talked to the US Coast Guard in Corpus Christy and they said they don’t make that call. I will continue to find answers. Thanks everyone for your input. I may need to pull the engine and put what I can in there that way.

In the long run, the engine pull may turn out to be easier. Especially if it gives you a better tank setup when you're done.

 

[psneeld]

Sorry...late to the confusion....As far as I know, not all even polyester tanks are damaged by ethanol gasoline...it was certain types used through some years of boat building. It may not be recommended in a general way...but checking with the manufacturer is best as there are plenty of underground fiberglass gasoline tanks that I bet may not be exactly the epoxy we are discussing. There are many, many formulations.

This thread is a great example of do your own thorough research.

Here is some gas and diesel and ethanol resistant epoxy you can buy on Amazon....

Gasoline Resistant Epoxy- MAX GRE Resin for Coating, Bonding, Potting, Fiberglassing Reinforcement & Repair - Resistant to E85 Gasoline & Diesel Fuel

https://www.amazon.com/Gasoline-Res...asoline+resistant+epoxy&qid=1642438381&sr=8-3

As far as fittings go, I do believe ABYC suggests no fittings anywhere but on top. I have their older versions on a different computer.

https://newboatbuilders.com/docs/PY_JAN09_51-54_FUEL_TANKS.pdf

Fittings Gasoline tanks may not have
openings below the top of the tank or incorporate tank drains or sight tubes, but diesel
tanks commonly do. Sight tubes should have
a valve at either end so they can be closed to
prevent leaks if the tube breaks. Diesel tanks
usually have a clean-out port on the top of
the tank. All fittings should be galvanically
compatible with the tank, so, for instance,
brass should never be used in contact with
aluminum. Steel or stainless steel is the
most common material for fittings. One
item that causes headaches is the tank
sender, which tells you how much fuel is in
the tank. In most tanks this is the old
resistive, float-on-an-arm type. The arm is
connected to a variable resistor. As the float
goes up and down the arm moves, the
resistance changes, and the level is indicated
on a gauge. Such senders, however, are
affected by motion and notoriously
inaccurate......

Also info from the same article.

......Tank Standards In the U.S. and Canada
the respective Coast Guards regulate fuel
tanks on recreational boats. U.S. standards
posit the absolute minimum for safety, so
most manufacturers follow the American
Boat and Yacht Council (ABYC) standards,
which are more comprehensive. In Canada
the standards are taken directly from ABYC.
ABYC is a non-profit organization that
employs volunteer committees of designers, builders, surveyors, government entities, boat owners and other interested parties
to determine, by consensus, the standards.
Groups such as the National Fire Protection
Association, the Society of Automotive Engineers and UL also publish standards. These
are incorporated into ABYC standards. If the
tank meets ABYC standards, it will also meet
the national standards.

 

[OldDan1943]

A 26gal tank may not seem like a lot until your other tank goes dry.

 

[Comodave]

It’s kinda funny all the posts I’ve seen before where other members have installed multiple tanks with pictures are all gone from here... lol

Those are diesel tanks which is legal.

 

[MYNantucket]

Gas tank confusion

I am talking to my nieces husband who is an engineer with the US Coast Guard and he tells me there is no regulation against putting ports at the bottom or near the bottom or the sides of a tank. He also states it would be easier and better to pull the engine to replace the tank

 

[psneeld]

I am talking to my nieces husband who is an engineer with the US Coast Guard and he tells me there is no regulation against putting ports at the bottom or near the bottom or the sides of a tank. He also states it would be easier and better to pull the engine to replace the tank

An engineer with the USCG is not the same as a USCG Marine Safety Inspector...

CFR 33 § 183.518 subpart J

Fuel tank openings.

Each opening into the fuel tank must be at or above the topmost surface of the tank.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/33/183.518

I was in the USCG 23 years and very few knew anything about smaller recreational vessels. The egineers came to me (a helo pilot) and hated it but I was their boss when the USCG finally bought a lot of RHIBs. The engineers knew nothing about fiberglass and air filled fabric boats so they cursed under their breath and broke down and came to me for advice.

 

[Comodave]

I did a quick search on CFR and marine gas fuel tanks. Newboatbuilders.com had the following excerpt from the CFRs. I agree with psneed, many CG people are not familiar with recreational boats. Lots of them have no clue to small boats but rather ships. Look up the CFRs yourself, don’t depend on TF or some relative, do your own homework. But if you put openings below the top of the tank and they leak and the boat blows up injuring or killing someone is your nieces husband going to accept responsibility?



http://www.uscgboating.org/assets/1/AssetManager/ABYC.1002.01.pdf

EPA Documents on Evaporative Emissions Regs

Perko Evaporative Emissions Perko Fuel Systems

Fuel Tanks An article I wrote for Pacific Yachting Magazine Published January 2009 (in PDF Format)

Fuel Tank openings: Any opening in gasoline fuel tanks must be on the topmost surface of the tank. The fuel inlet, the fuel tank vent, the opening for the level gauge and the opening for the pick up must all be on the topmost surface of the tank.

Prohibited openings: Drains are not allowed on gasoline tanks. Sight gauges are not allowed.

Diesel tanks are allowed to have openings below the top of the tank such as a drain, or sight gauges.

 

[psneeld]

From the link above...same as my link to the CFRs

IT’S THE LAW - USCG:
183.518 Fuel tank openings.
Each opening into the fuel tank must be at or above the topmost surface of the tank.

Don't see where diesel is any different than gas... not that it makes sense....??????

 

[Comodave]

Yeah I talked to the US Coast Guard in Corpus Christy and they said they don’t make that call. I will continue to find answers. Thanks everyone for your input. I may need to pull the engine and put what I can in there that way.

On our last boat I pulled the engines out, one each winter, so I could do work and cleanup the engine room. I made a crane that I could assemble in the salon. The first engine took about 2 hours to get out and up into the salon. I didn’t take it out of the salon but just stored it above the other engine for the winter. It took about 1.5 hours to get it back in in the spring. The second year we got the engine out in 1.5 hours because we knew what we were doing. That boat had SP225 Lehmans in it. They weighed just under 1400 pounds with the transmission. While it was out I put in new damper plates because it was so easy then.