Switch from electric to propane

[Derik]

Every time I make coffee in the morning on the boat, I enjoy the little bit of heat generated from my propane cook top/stove, but our water temperatures keep it cool here at the coast almost 12 months a year.

 

[Pcpete]

I’m going to start converting our Princess electric three burner stove by installing an induction cooktop. I’ll start with running a new dedicated circuit that will be connected to our 2500 watt inverter/charger. The inverter has four dedicated golf cart batteries powering it. Based on what a couple of members of my yacht club have done, after removing the burners and whatever other electrical is appropriate I’ll add an outlet box in the back corner. Another member of our club owns National Marine Exhaust and will make a decorative cap and cut our boat name for vents.
The end result will be an independent cooktop and oven combination that is more efficient and suited to our needs.

 

[Marco Flamingo]

I’m going to start converting our Princess electric three burner stove by installing an induction cooktop. I’ll start with running a new dedicated circuit that will be connected to our 2500 watt inverter/charger. The inverter has four dedicated golf cart batteries powering it.

That's what I did when I got rid of propane (already had four golf cart batteries). Hope your inverter is pure sine wave.

I didn't put in a dedicated circuit from inverter to induction top. I installed my inverter close enough to plug in the induction top's power cord to the inverter. That way when we are in the marina I simply plug the induction stove top in to shore power outlet next to the inverter. Just seemed odd in the marina to have 110 shore power converted to 12V by the charger going to the batteries sending 12V to the inverter to be changed back to 110.

Strange how stove preferences work. I put in a fancy Viking gas range in a past kitchen remodel. Wish I had known about induction then. Superior in every way. Well, I can think of one thing it can't do. One can use gas and regular electric stoves to light cigarettes. Hard to catch things on fire with induction.

 

[mvweebles]

I’m going to start converting our Princess electric three burner stove by installing an induction cooktop. I’ll start with running a new dedicated circuit that will be connected to our 2500 watt inverter/charger. The inverter has four dedicated golf cart batteries powering it. Based on what a couple of members of my yacht club have done, after removing the burners and whatever other electrical is appropriate I’ll add an outlet box in the back corner. Another member of our club owns National Marine Exhaust and will make a decorative cap and cut our boat name for vents.

The end result will be an independent cooktop and oven combination that is more efficient and suited to our needs.

Have regular FLA golf carts supported substantial cooking? I had two GCs in my van and the voltage drop across them with just an 800 watt draw was steep - inverter would make an under-voltage fault within 15-mins or so. Maybe 4 GCs would be okay. I went with a pair of LFP which totally solved the problem.

I enjoy cooking, especially on the boat. To me, induction is a vast improvement over the smallish gas burners on a marine propane stove. As others have said, cleanup is a breeze and less heat generated. For a cooktop, it's not a hard decision - induction.

But......I stayed with my propane stove because the cooktop is only part of the equation. We make bread, pizza, and casseroles which all take an oven. I realize there are some decent countertop ovens such as the Breville but these would all require long generator run time for use even with a large 700ah LFP battery bank (or we could cook while underway with alternator providing juice).. So we stayed with propane as it is the best overall compromise for our cooking needs.

And I now carry an induction single hobb hot plate....

Peter

 

[rslifkin]

Have regular FLA golf carts supported substantial cooking? I had two GCs in my van and the voltage drop across them with just an 800 watt draw was steep - inverter would make an under-voltage fault within 15-mins or so. Maybe 4 GCs would be okay. I went with a pair of LFP which totally solved the problem.

I'd expect 4 GCs to be marginal for sustained high cooking loads like boiling water unless there's significant solar input at the time. But most cooking doesn't involve multiple burners on full power continuously, so it's probably workable.

I've been known to occasionally vacuum the boat on inverter/battery power. House bank is 2x L16 (AGM), so slightly smaller than 4x GC. Even with pretty much full batteries that 1000w draw will pull things down to ~11.8 volts after a minute or 2, but it's steady there and nothing complains. AGMs will often do better in this situation than flooded batteries due to lower internal resistance resulting in better ability to supply a lot of power quickly.

 

[ronobrien]

Just that the installation needs to be done competently to ABYC standards. Sealed propane locker with overboard drain, solenoid valve, one piece continuous hose from regulator to stove through sealed bulkheads, propane sensors at bottle and stove connected to solenoid cutoff valve.

I’m giving thought to an electric induction cooktop but I want the battery capacity to use it without running the generator and figuring out a stove option and the requisite carpentry and granite to install it all. That leads me down a technical and logistical project rabbit hole I’m avoiding for now. So propane is fine for us.

I would certainly consult ABYC for standards. CO monitor and LPG monitor in bilge are a good idea. I have sailed on boats for 40 years that all had LPG stoves and never had a problem. My 1973 GB36 has the tank locker in the flybridge seat above the stove. The "solenoid" is a valve in the locker with the valve handle extending down into the cabin. This satisfies the requirement for at tank shut off from the stove and there is no electrical parts to malfunction. I love it.

 

[Hippocampus]

Apparently from what I understand the concern was from the health risks from gas (propane or LNG) leaking from ranges and stoves. Read about this elsewhere and even high end like Wolf leak a fair amount. True when not in use. It wasn’t a safety risk nor “green” concern. Our dirt dwelling has a very good HERS rating. Fortunately there’s heat exchangers on the air coming in/out so little cool or heat is lost although the air is exchanged. Older houses are much more leaky. In either case there’s a fair amount of air exchange with the outside. Problem is if a house is too “tight. Could see this being a concern in a boat as well. But we run the vent hood in the summer when cooking or have hatches open and we ventilated the boat both summer and winter.

 

[JRO]

Thinking about switching our stove to propane
Electric has never heated well and we must run generator…

I would not consider it. I changed to a induction stovetop by Cuisinart. I would not sleep well with propane lines running anywhere in my boat… And flipping on the generator to charge batteries, heat shower water, and watch some big screen TV while on the hook is a regular thing for me… Sometimes for AC but rarely.
I changed to an induction stovetop for safety after a unsecured bottle dropped and cracked the original stovetop glass. I use cast iron and burn steaks to perfection… Fast. Then flip off the generator.
My original electric stovetop would get “absurdly” hot when turned up. If your root issue is stovetop “temperature” I would first investigate a possible problem with your existing stovetop.
Good Cooking!

 

[bgillroy]

Boat US publishes the list of top causes of fires aboard. Yup, electric appliances like stoves top list. Propane stoves nope.
Propane when properly installed provides far better cooking and is far more efficient hands down.

 

[rslifkin]

Propane is not more efficient than electric for cooking. It's far less efficient, as a significant portion of the heat goes right around the sides of the pot. I don't remember the numbers, but in a similar discussion over on CF someone did some work to calculate efficiency by boiling a pot of water on a gas stove, an electric coil stove, and an induction stove. The gas stove was least efficient by a significant margin.

 

[Marco Flamingo]

Propane when properly installed provides far better cooking and is far more efficient hands down.

That's funny, in a sad way.

 

[tiltrider1]

Propane is not more efficient than electric for cooking. It's far less efficient, as a significant portion of the heat goes right around the sides of the pot. I don't remember the numbers, but in a similar discussion over on CF someone did some work to calculate efficiency by boiling a pot of water on a gas stove, an electric coil stove, and an induction stove. The gas stove was least efficient by a significant margin.

Did they include the costs associated with generator and battery maintenance or did they just use household cost of a btu. I doubt anyone has done a true marine efficiency study between propane and electricity.

 

[HTurner]

Propane is not more efficient than electric for cooking. It's far less efficient, as a significant portion of the heat goes right around the sides of the pot. I don't remember the numbers, but in a similar discussion over on CF someone did some work to calculate efficiency by boiling a pot of water on a gas stove, an electric coil stove, and an induction stove. The gas stove was least efficient by a significant margin.

What about the replacement of energy when using electric, other than shore power?

 

[rslifkin]

Did they include the costs associated with generator and battery maintenance or did they just use household cost of a btu. I doubt anyone has done a true marine efficiency study between propane and electricity.

It wasn't an operating cost study, just a "what portion of the input energy makes it into the food?" comparison.

 

[DDW]

On a boat, "efficiency" should really mean, "how easy is it to replace the energy used". If you are running the genset all the time anyway, then electric makes sense. Starting a $20K genset to boil some tea water makes very little sense at all. With induction, a large house battery, and efficient charging means, it can make sense again.

 

[rslifkin]

On a boat, "efficiency" should really mean, "how easy is it to replace the energy used". If you are running the genset all the time anyway, then electric makes sense. Starting a $20K genset to boil some tea water makes very little sense at all. With induction, a large house battery, and efficient charging means, it can make sense again.

I think of this one as practicality rather than efficiency. Just because 1 method is more efficient doesn't mean it's practical and fits well into the rest of the systems design on a given boat.

 

[Marco Flamingo]

I can't answer the "financial efficiency" questions because I removed my generator right after removing the propane stove. My alternator charges my batteries when I cruise. Both of those were purchased by the prior owner, so I can't amortize acquisition costs into some sort of financial efficiency. I junked both the generator and the propane stove, so not much cost recovery there.

I charge my house batteries from the alternator, and I know that some horsepower (and therefore diesel expense) could be associated with charging and therefore there is a "cost" to using my induction stove. But whatever that is, I'm writing that off against never having to call a cab to drive me to a propane dealer to refill a tank (which I assume isn't free). No open flame. And no explosive gasses in the bilge (which apparently never ever happens in real life).

My calculation of electric induction "efficiency" is based partly on no additional heat or water vapor from cooking but primarily on speed/cleanliness/convenience. Here are the numbers. I put 1 liter of water (33.81 fluid ounces) of 60F (16 degrees C) on the induction stove top. It took 6 minutes and 5 seconds to get it to a rolling boil. No open flame. And no explosive gasses in the bilge (which apparently never ever happens in real life). No air quality issues (shhhhh). That is the efficiency that I couldn't get with propane.

It probably won't work for everybody.