hybrid fishing boat as liveaboard

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JWellington said:
It seems like you didnt follow the thread. I DID mention huge battery load, and solar panels, amongst other suggestions. I never said anything about changing hp. And the boat is not unknown, its already been desinged by those clever naval architects in Holland. They make the bold claim they can configure it any way the customer wants, and build it. They do it all the time. They are experts at it. In fact on their site, they do show several other configurations for this 2007.
Click to expand...


Are you insulting my reading comprehension?


You theorized it would be possible to put 100, 200, or 300 kwh in the fish hold. Which do you have in mind, and what operational goals would you have for them? A certain cruise speed/duration on electric only? Run house loads for some period of time? What's the goal and required storage to accomplish it?


You did mention solar. What's the operational goal for it? Propulsion? Carry house loads? Cover some portion of the house load? Would it cover the whole upper deck, or would there be walkways or other space allocated? The main deck is all enclosed with no walkaround, so would things like managing fenders be done from the upper deck?



No, you didn't mention any HP change, nor did I. However the propulsion system in the spec sheet is a single engine, diesel electric, with no separate generator. You have said you will have a hybrid system, and I'm wondering what that looks like? There are of course lots of ways to do it, and I'm wondering which you have picked?


I don't doubt that Damen can build most anything. I'm just trying to understand what you would do with this particular base boat. A huge lounge with and easy chair, "hybrid" propulsion, arbitrarily sized batteries and solar with no defined operational objectives doesn't really give us anything to go on. You have said you want to circumnavigate, but haven't said how you would provide redundancy in the marinade of ways typically provided in such a boat. Would the boat have stabilizers? The one you posted does not.
 
JWellington said:
Noted, you dont like this boat.
Click to expand...
Au contraire, I love the boat. I think it's perfect for you. Place a deposit ASAP. Nevermind that it's designed to haul and process 200k lbs of fish - just means it's robust. AVS with a hold with a Barco-lounger instead of fish packing factory equipment doesn't mean anything of significance so should easily survive Perfect Storm conditions and protect any ignorant or arrogant souls aboard. What better way to weather Force 12 conditions than in a recliner on a high deck??

This is a great idea. Building in Europe instead of your backyard of BC is perfect - everyone knows that the metal fishing boats built in the PNW for 100 years are junk. I'm amazed no one has thought of it before. Two thumbs up!!! Plus two big toes, two middle fingers, and whatever other erect appendage I can muster!

Good luck! What is the delivery time?

Peter
 
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I've put this one up before
Most of the ways there already

Guessing I could buy this one give her a tart up and be out there doing it for the deposit money for a Damen

0_4.jpg


https://www.boatsonline.com.au/boat...sel/23m-steel-passenger-charter-vessel/247859
 
What is the stability like without all the fish load in the boat?
 
mvweebles said:
Yep. Not his first post with oddball European boats built for commercial purposes that he's proposed for new-build for a recreational trawler.

https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62005

https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65102

https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60451

https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60221

I think troll works. Certainly hasn't progressed much over the last year or so.

Peter
Click to expand...

This program is getting tired. They are the same formula over and over.

If you insist on trolling, at least use some creativity and mix it up a bit.
 
ABORT!! ABORT!!!

Danger Will Robinson.

DO NOT ENGAGE.

Abandon all hope ( of a meaningful conversation ) ye who enter here.
 
mvweebles said:
Au contraire, I love the boat. I think it's perfect for you. Place a deposit ASAP. Nevermind that it's designed to haul and process 200k lbs of fish - just means it's robust. AVS with a hold with a Barco-lounger instead of fish packing factory equipment doesn't mean anything of significance so should easily survive Perfect Storm conditions and protect any ignorant or arrogant souls aboard. What better way to weather Force 12 conditions than in a recliner on a high deck??

This is a great idea. Building in Europe instead of your backyard of BC is perfect - everyone knows that the metal fishing boats built in the PNW for 100 years are junk. I'm amazed no one has thought of it before. Two thumbs up!!! Plus two big toes, two middle fingers, and whatever other erect appendage I can muster!

Good luck! What is the delivery time?

Peter[/QUOTE

Then we could also..........oh, belay that, its only you again.
Click to expand...
 
The product sheet says: Gross tonnage(in steel) 123 GT. What do people think the Damen company would say if I tell them a guy on the internet said, "nevermind that its designed tohaul and process 200k lbs of fish"?
 
JWellington,

You have proposed many different boats the forum comment on. Reference Post #5 in this thread. Time and again the community has given you overwhelming negative feedback on your proposals. Some have called you a troll for continuing to do so. If you do continue down that path I will join them in labeling you a troll and you will go on my ignore list.

For now I will give you the benefit of the doubt and take the view you are relatively inexperienced and thinking outside the box of recreational boat passagemaker design and build. Because you are thinking outside the box your path to a successful build / conversion is going to be more challenging than approaching a proven recreational passagemaker designer and asking for some relatively minor modifications to a proven design. Were I in your shoes here is a rough draft of a plan I might follow.


  1. Create a design, build, maintenance and operation budget. At this stage it won't be boat specific because there is no specific design. Rather it will be wallet based. What can you afford.
  2. Generate a general list of requirements
    1. Hull material, you seem to favor steel or aluminum
    2. Intended cruising grounds
    3. Maximum range required with conservative reserves
    4. # of crew
    5. You might list desired propulsion system but I'd leave that to the designer.
  3. Request interest in your design project
    1. Reach out to a broad list of designer builders
    2. Present your work from items #1 and #2 above
    3. Evaluate responses and narrow the list.
  4. Request design proposals (Not all in step 3 will reply) to include.
    1. Estimated cost to design
    2. Estimated cost to build
    3. Recommended builders
    4. Estimated cost to own
    5. Suggested changes to list #2
  5. Add some wiggle room to budget items from list #4
    1. 1, design, add 25%.
    2. 2, build, a bare minimum of 25%, if something totally out of the box then 100%. That is neither a typo nor a joke.
    3. 4, Cost to own. Take it with a very large grain of salt. It's going to cost more than anyone can estimate.
  6. If you have no experience with managing the design / build of a vessel then hire a full time project manager with relevant experience.
  7. Put the design project out to bid. The list of interested parties will now drop again.
    1. If any of the bids are far lower than others in cost reject them out of hand.
    2. If one is far higher than the others some detailed conversations are going to be needed to try to nail down why. What did the others miss if anything?
  8. Once a designer is selected and a project manager hired proceed with the design.
  9. With the design in hand repeat the requests for interest and requests for proposals.
You will now be closer to commissioning the build. Get ready for a long hard ride. It's going to both cost more and take longer than you are expecting.

Yes, this I'm sure seems like a burdensome and expensive way to go. But unless you truly have unlimited funds and a tolerance for throwing away what doesn't work to start again it it a good way to go to try to avoid significant cost overruns and technical problems.

This is a tough crowd with good experience behind their questioning your proposals. Many here with considerable passagemaking experience, quite a few with heavy weather work boat experience. Add in experience with design / build / maintenance / repair and you should take their criticisms seriously. Following a plan similar to my proposed rough draft will get you and entirely different set of responses. Still critical but in a more constructive way.

And to put some time into learning a bit more before starting the plan. A few apparent holes in your knowledge.

Diesel electric is not hybrid. Adding batteries does not make it so.

Stability and stabilization are not the same thing. The former refers to safety, the latter to comfort. When stabilization fails stability needs to be intact.

Gross tonnage has nothing to do with cargo capacity. It is a measure of internal volume defined by regulations. In the design you propose in this thread 85 cubic meters of fish hold can carry 191 890.35 lbs of sea water.
 
Portage_Bay said:
JWellington,

You have proposed many different boats the forum comment on. Reference Post #5 in this thread. Time and again the community has given you overwhelming negative feedback on your proposals. Some have called you a troll for continuing to do so. If you do continue down that path I will join them in labeling you a troll and you will go on my ignore list.

For now I will give you the benefit of the doubt and take the view you are relatively inexperienced and thinking outside the box of recreational boat passagemaker design and build. Because you are thinking outside the box your path to a successful build / conversion is going to be more challenging than approaching a proven recreational passagemaker designer and asking for some relatively minor modifications to a proven design. Were I in your shoes here is a rough draft of a plan I might follow.


  1. Create a design, build, maintenance and operation budget. At this stage it won't be boat specific because there is no specific design. Rather it will be wallet based. What can you afford.
  2. Generate a general list of requirements
    1. Hull material, you seem to favor steel or aluminum
    2. Intended cruising grounds
    3. Maximum range required with conservative reserves
    4. # of crew
    5. You might list desired propulsion system but I'd leave that to the designer.
  3. Request interest in your design project
    1. Reach out to a broad list of designer builders
    2. Present your work from items #1 and #2 above
    3. Evaluate responses and narrow the list.
  4. Request design proposals (Not all in step 3 will reply) to include.
    1. Estimated cost to design
    2. Estimated cost to build
    3. Recommended builders
    4. Estimated cost to own
    5. Suggested changes to list #2
  5. Add some wiggle room to budget items from list #4
    1. 1, design, add 25%.
    2. 2, build, a bare minimum of 25%, if something totally out of the box then 100%. That is neither a typo nor a joke.
    3. 4, Cost to own. Take it with a very large grain of salt. It's going to cost more than anyone can estimate.
  6. If you have no experience with managing the design / build of a vessel then hire a full time project manager with relevant experience.
  7. Put the design project out to bid. The list of interested parties will now drop again.
    1. If any of the bids are far lower than others in cost reject them out of hand.
    2. If one is far higher than the others some detailed conversations are going to be needed to try to nail down why. What did the others miss if anything?
  8. Once a designer is selected and a project manager hired proceed with the design.
  9. With the design in hand repeat the requests for interest and requests for proposals.
You will now be closer to commissioning the build. Get ready for a long hard ride. It's going to both cost more and take longer than you are expecting.

Yes, this I'm sure seems like a burdensome and expensive way to go. But unless you truly have unlimited funds and a tolerance for throwing away what doesn't work to start again it it a good way to go to try to avoid significant cost overruns and technical problems.

This is a tough crowd with good experience behind their questioning your proposals. Many here with considerable passagemaking experience, quite a few with heavy weather work boat experience. Add in experience with design / build / maintenance / repair and you should take their criticisms seriously. Following a plan similar to my proposed rough draft will get you and entirely different set of responses. Still critical but in a more constructive way.

And to put some time into learning a bit more before starting the plan. A few apparent holes in your knowledge.

Diesel electric is not hybrid. Adding batteries does not make it so.

Stability and stabilization are not the same thing. The former refers to safety, the latter to comfort. When stabilization fails stability needs to be intact.

Gross tonnage has nothing to do with cargo capacity. It is a measure of internal volume defined by regulations. In the design you propose in this thread 85 cubic meters of fish hold can carry 191 890.35 lbs of sea water.
Click to expand...
If you notice in his original post, he asked no questions. He is not looking for feedback, just trying to pull the pin and roll the grenade into the virtual room to take advantage of the generally well meaning and generous contributors of TF......again.

Suggest we leave him alone beneath his stone bridge.

Peter
 
Portage bay.
Thank you for all the info. Too bad of those points have been covered either here, or in my other posts. "tough crowd"? Rather some are continually rude and insulting, unlike me who brides himself on being civil. And when I used to defend myself, I got censored, so now I just ignore the frivolous ones, who dont like the boats Ive proposed.
On the point of semantic of terms, like Hybrid, electric, diesel/ electric, etc. people can fuss over these terms with the Damen company and others, if they like, but not with me. And if they dont think you can add battery capacity, they can argue with all those builders who say they can. My suggestion to guys who dont like these boats and those who dont accept what all those clever europeans going electric are offering, should just ignore the threads they dont like.
 
mvweebles said:
If you notice in his original post, he asked no questions. He is not looking for feedback, just trying to pull the pin and roll the grenade into the virtual room to take advantage of the generally well meaning and generous contributors of TF......again.

Suggest we leave him alone beneath his stone bridge.

Peter
Click to expand...
As I said, if he keeps up his current behavior he goes on my ignore list.
 
JWellington said:
It will be fine with whatever stabiliziation those clever Dutch naval architects recommend. They swear they are experts at stabilization systems.
Click to expand...

You do realise a vessels stability has nothing to do with add on stabilization systems
Clearly not :rolleyes:
 
Simi 60 said:
You do realise a vessels stability has nothing to do with add on stabilization systems
Clearly not :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Yes I do and those clever Dutchmen naval architects know even more. So in a meeting with them they wont forget to tell me how empty fishing boats and freighter boats manage to sail while empty. And we both know that pleasure yachts with discplacement hulls of the same size do too. Pleasure trawlwrs dont habe to be full of fish to sail around either. Then Ill also ask how much of a battery bank they suggest, and how to distribute it. And they will give their solutions to all other relevant matters, like how many solar panels they can place on the roof. And ill bet they agree with my above suggestions about the matter of there being only one motor and one genset. When I say they should close in the main deck too as a huge watertight compartment, and install my lazyboy chair such that it wont fly around in storms, Ill bet they say, 'yes sir, no problem".
 
JWellington said:
Yes I do and those clever Dutchmen naval architects know even more. So in a meeting with them they wont forget to tell me how empty fishing boats and freighter boats manage to sail while empty. And we both know that pleasure yachts with discplacement hulls of the same size do too. Pleasure trawlwrs dont habe to be full of fish to sail around either. Then Ill also ask how much of a battery bank they suggest, and how to distribute it. And they will give their solutions to all other relevant matters, like how many solar panels they can place on the roof. And ill bet they agree with my above suggestions about the matter of there being only one motor and one genset. When I say they should close in the main deck too as a huge watertight compartment, and install my lazyboy chair such that it wont fly around in storms, Ill bet they say, 'yes sir, no problem".
Click to expand...

Those clever Dutch naval architects may suggest that you look up the term “in ballast” so you will know how empty freighters and fishing boats remain stable.
Pleasure trawlers don’t have to be full of fish because they were designed to be pleasure trawlers. Which is essentially what has been pointed out to you in each of these fantasy threads but you reject reality and pretend like you are actually looking for a boat.
It has been mildly entertaining but a bit tiresome. Best of luck to you.
 
JWellington said:
There is more than shinyness to do with age. Like , for example...all mechanical and electrical systems.
Click to expand...

And even if you ripped out every bit of wiring and mechanical and started again, not that you'd need to as she is still in survey, she'd still be a very small fraction of the price of the Damen that you proposed.

Even as is you could be out there actually doing it instead of talking about it.
But I suspect actually doing it is not your intention.
 
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guy with a boat said:
Those clever Dutch naval architects may suggest that you look up the term “in ballast” so you will know how empty freighters and fishing boats remain stable.
Pleasure trawlers don’t have to be full of fish because they were designed to be pleasure trawlers. Which is essentially what has been pointed out to you in each of these fantasy threads but you reject reality and pretend like you are actually looking for a boat.
It has been mildly entertaining but a bit tiresome. Best of luck to you.
Click to expand...

What they will say...."here is how we will do it". Because other ones have said the very same thing in other threads. And various ways have been illustrated already. And its not fantasy because we often see examples of all sorts, of converted, modified boats for sale. Some of you guys just dont like them, or apparently, with the ones Ive submitted, cant afford them.
 
Simi 60 said:
And even if you ripped out every bit of wiring and mechanical and started again, not that you'd need to as she is still in survey, she'd still be a very small fraction of the price of the Damen that you proposed.

Even as is you could be out there actually doing it instead of talking about it.
But I suspect actually doing it is not your intention.
Click to expand...

Good point, everybody that has bought a new boat, could have bought a cheap, real old one. Yet many actually do, in reality, buy new ones. I just checked with Hinckley and they confirmed they still sell new boats.
 
JWellington said:
Good point, everybody that has bought a new boat, could have bought a cheap, real old one. Yet many actually do, in reality, buy new ones. I just checked with Hinckley and they confirmed they still sell new boats.
Click to expand...

I have my doubts that you'll be one of them, or any boat for that matter.:rolleyes:
 
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