Why Move from Sailboat to Trawler?

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I think the last couple of posts hit on my opinion. I like sailing, but I like traveling by powerboat.
:iagree:

For me, sailing (not motoring in a sailboat) is very enjoyable. Cruising inland, ICW, or near coastal involves too much motoring and too little sailing to accept the compromises of a sailboat. So I'm definitely power boat cruiser. That said going nowhere fast in a Hobie cat or Laser can be a thilling afternoon on the water!

Ted
 
:iagree:



For me, sailing (not motoring in a sailboat) is very enjoyable.

You touched on a unique point. Motoring in a sailboat bears little resemblance to motoring on even a middle of the road trawler. Speed may be close, but comfort is not.

Peter
 
Finally, and I did think about - time to departure On the On the trawler, we can work through the entire checklist in a little more than an hour. I honestly feel that if I wanted to, I could have the trawler underway in less than 30 minutes in a pinch. But I would never have felt comfortable doing that in our sailboat.

Check the coolant level, same for oil, store the shore power cables while warming up the main and generator. You can store the dock lines and water hose once clear of the harbor. Maybe 20 minutes if necessary with one person.
 
Check the coolant level, same for oil, store the shore power cables while warming up the main and generator. You can store the dock lines and water hose once clear of the harbor. Maybe 20 minutes if necessary with one person.

Hmmm, never timed a departure but thinking about it, it would only take me an hour if someone came by a chatted me up. 20-30 sounds reasonable
 
Do you do a pre departure check on your car when driving to the shops?
If not why not?
 
@Simi
Before I leave the dock I check all the gauges, just like with the car. But the car dipstick does not get pulled, or coolant level checked. Mostly because I can pull over with a car if needed, but do not want to stop with a boat due to not having done the check.
 
@Simi
Before I leave the dock I check all the gauges, just like with the car. But the car dipstick does not get pulled, or coolant level checked. Mostly because I can pull over with a car if needed, but do not want to stop with a boat due to not having done the check.

We can and are underway in minutes dictated by length of time to get anchor up.

I guess our ER being so big and me being in there a couple of times a day traversing through to the storage room has me subconsciously giving everything a once over.
Easy to see leaking hoses and clamps with issues

Coolant tank has a sight glass so easy to see the green stuff
And 37 litres of oil in the engine with clean drip trays under says we are good there as well.

Start and gauges confirm this
And on passage, every hour or two I do a walk around as well.

Just seems odd spending an hour
 
Lots of variables when getting underway:

I always do an engine room check before leaving. A few minutes to check oils, serpentine belts, steering fluid, antifreeze, raw water strainers, fuel separators, and transfer fuel. If the preceeding day was long, fuel transfer may stretch it to 5 minutes. With the exception of dip sticks and belts, everything is visual with a flashlight.

2 to 4 minutes to turn on the electronics, turn off the anchor alarm, make appropriate settings and illumination levels.

Leaving the dock is dependent on whether leaving lines or taking them. As I mostly cruise, I usually take them. 15 to 30 minutes in a slip; 5 to 10 minutes side tied. Add 5 to 20 minutes for the power cord depending on length and complexity.

Pulling the anchor is the longest part by far. As I travel solo, am intra coastal or freshwater, and am OCD on cleaning the mud off the chain, it's 15 minutes to an hour depending on depth, wind, current, vegetation and mud.

I would guess the best time would be about 15 minutes from a transient bulkhead to well over an hour in worst conditions at anchor.

Ted
 
No wonder so many consider me an outlier here. :D

20 years of being dead asleep to airborne into the storm in scary old helos in less than 20 minutes then another 14 years in a boat underway in less than 15 minutes taught me a few things.

For me, it's knowing the equipment and leaving it in a state of readiness that allows a departure as fast or as slow as you want or feel like. Of course there's no rush...but it should be a big chore either. I am not OCD so that helps keep me as an outlier too. ;)

Much of the stuff I usually get to as I am slowly powering underway if it wasn't already taken care of from the day before.

Stuff like dipsticks and fluid checks, if checked the night before, and not in the drip pan, and no water or fuel contamination seen the night before..... in the morning it's a pretty good chance it's still there and no issues. A quick glance and sniff, coupled with a good engine room camera takes care of most else.

I did get to the point of not checking too much the night before, because if I found anything, I wouldn't get a good nights sleep and usually I wasn't going to fix it through the night. Still, engine room checks for me both recreational and assistance towing were still just a couple minutes.
 
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My basic pre-departure engine room check takes about 5 minutes unless I notice something to look at more. Pull engine, generator, and trans dipsticks. Check coolant levels, belt tension, and give everything a visual once over (including the drip pans).

Then if we're at anchor, hit the blowers, help the admiral confirm the cabin is ready to go while I'm waiting, crank the engines. Wait 1 minute at high idle, confirm stable idle, pull the anchor and go. Length of time varies depending on depth, how much it takes to get the anchor free and how muddy it comes up.

If we're at a dock, I'll start pulling lines during the minute of warm-up. Once we're down to the last lines needed, I'll bring the engines back to idle, confirm stable, then we pull the last lines and depart.

If shore power is connected, that gets disconnected before engine start. If we're at our home dock and coming back that day, the power cords stay on the dock so it's quick. Otherwise it does take a few minutes to coil the cords and get them aboard.

Without shore power (or if we're home and leaving the cords behind), depending on whether we want any canvas down before departing, we could be off the dock in 10 if we really needed to, usually it takes more like 15 - 20. But other factors can slow us down a bit.
 
Check the coolant level, same for oil, store the shore power cables while warming up the main and generator. You can store the dock lines and water hose once clear of the harbor. Maybe 20 minutes if necessary with one person.

I check every seacock, battery cable, electronic device, radios, backup radios, emergency lights and supplies, nav lights, fenders, lines...etc. If I wanted to go faster, I could drop a few of those as "check first thing underway," - which would get me down to sub-30-minutes, but I'd rather do it before I leave the dock.
 
See.... this is where I am never sure about why posters do things the way they do.

With living aboard, actively cruising and depending on the boat... things like thru hulls are usually checked by virtue of cleaning strainers or whatever.

So in some ways they are checked several times a month but on the other hand just how often does one really need to check them?
Sure ....preparing/departing for a run offshore at night is different than a 30 mile day cruise down the ICW in perfect weather.

If I only came to the boat once a month to go out, sure I would check a lot more items than the things I would normally see at least once a day or week (depending on it's longevity and normal wear). But if on a long cruise, by day 3-4 most things drop off to the things that are normally consumed or could wear fast (like a fan belt).... and even that usually gives a hint of black residue building faster than normal.

Again, better safe than sorry so check away but after awhile... and it's not complacency...it's just experience that let's some skippers relax a bit more and rewrite checklists.

Even this topic sure can be full of "it depends"....
 
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Do you do a pre departure check on your car when driving to the shops?
If not why not?

Yes. I start it and warm it up, and while it's warming up I will do random checks of things - different every time. But I try to give the engine a once-over and check the oil about once a week. I also check transmission fluid about once a month and every couple of months I go over the suspension and test things like 4x4 controls...etc.

Finally, I have a Bluetooth OBDC monitoring system that constantly gives me feedback on important powertrain KPIs.

I have a 2003 Ford Expedition with 4x4 - it's got almost exactly 300K miles on it - everything original except spark plugs, coil packs, suspension, intake manifold, and tires. The oil looks brand new every time I change it - around 6K mile intervals.

It lasts because I check things often.

Even still, the last time we drove it to Home Depot (100-mile round trip), it blew a plastic heater hose fitting and left us on the side of the road waiting for a tow truck.

So yes, I check my vehicle - not as often or as thoroughly as I check my boat, but something going wrong on a car is likely to leave me stranded on the side of the road. Something going wrong with the boat is likely to leave me in a much worse situation.
 
Again, better safe than sorry so check away but after awhile... and it's not complacency...it's just experience that let's some skippers relax a bit more and rewrite checklists.

I agree. Under heavy use, I can get away from the dock in minutes. When I was working and wanted to take a quick spin after work, and I often did. Like the poster who initiate this branch of the thread, it's one of the reasons I came to like power - bagging sails was a pain to me. Power was easy in and easy out. More time on the water.

By far, the biggest area of prep (power or sail) is getting the cabin ready. Many folks keep loose objects such as photos or lamps that need to be secured. I almost started a fire once on my first boat. I had disconnected shore power and was preparing the inside including wrapping a bedside lamp in the bedspread. When anchored, I fired up the generator. The lamp was switched on and energized which came close to igniting the bedspread.

Peter
 
Again, better safe than sorry so check away but after awhile... and it's not complacency...it's just experience that let's some skippers relax a bit more and rewrite checklists.

I can't help it - All of this stuff was ingrained in my brain during my time in the Navy.

If you have the time to check, you do so every time. Your boat is the only thing between you and an environment that doesn't care about whether you live or die - so you check and re-check things as much as possible.

Naturally, there were times when this wasn't the case - but if there was time, it was done. And with an 11-man crew splitting the list, the checks on a 65-foot Patrol Boat could be handled in a matter of about a half hour.

I don't have a crew. The admiral does some things, but the lion's share I handle myself. I also double-check her sometimes because I see it as my duty to keep things squared away so I don't unwittingly cause myself or anyone else problems.

I'm just not sure I will ever relax about that.
 
See.... this is where I am never sure about why posters do things the way they do.

With living aboard, actively cruising and depending on the boat... things like thru hulls are usually checked by virtue of cleaning strainers or whatever.

So in some ways they are checked several times a month but on the other hand just how often does one really need to check them?
Sure ....preparing/departing for a run offshore at night is different than a 30 mile day cruise down the ICW in perfect weather.

If I only came to the boat once a month to go out, sure I would check a lot more items than the things I would normally see at least once a day or week (depending on it's longevity and normal wear). But if on a long cruise, by day 3-4 most things drop off to the things that are normally consumed or could wear fast (like a fan belt).... and even that usually gives a hint of black residue building faster than normal.

Again, better safe than sorry so check away but after awhile... and it's not complacency...it's just experience that let's some skippers relax a bit more and rewrite checklists.

Even this topic sure can be full of "it depends"....

I agree, there's plenty of stuff that either gets hands on it often enough out of necessity or just needs a periodic check (like nav lights, especially when they're LED). Not every item on the boat has to be checked before every departure. And certain things get adjusted to conditions. In high winds I'll typically give the engines an extra minute of warmup, knowing that I may use more throttle than normal for maneuvering.
 
You touched on a unique point. Motoring in a sailboat bears little resemblance to motoring on even a middle of the road trawler. Speed may be close, but comfort is not.

Peter

Sorry if this seems fundamental, but could you explain this? This is a very important point for me. I have never cruised on a trawler, only outboards, which I find to be very noisy. My sailboat is noisy if below when motoring, not bad in the cockpit, so I am curious about the differences motoring between a trawler and sailboat.
 
Yes. I start it and warm it up, and while it's warming up I will do random checks of things - different every time. But I try to give the engine a once-over and check the oil about once a week. I also check transmission fluid about once a month and every couple of months I go over the suspension and test things like 4x4 controls...etc.

Finally, I have a Bluetooth OBDC monitoring system that constantly gives me feedback on important powertrain KPIs.

I have a 2003 Ford Expedition with 4x4 - it's got almost exactly 300K miles on it - everything original except spark plugs, coil packs, suspension, intake manifold, and tires. The oil looks brand new every time I change it - around 6K mile intervals.

It lasts because I check things often.

Even still, the last time we drove it to Home Depot (100-mile round trip), it blew a plastic heater hose fitting and left us on the side of the road waiting for a tow truck.

So yes, I check my vehicle - not as often or as thoroughly as I check my boat, but something going wrong on a car is likely to leave me stranded on the side of the road. Something going wrong with the boat is likely to leave me in a much worse situation.

That's not why you have 300K on your vehicle...it's because they make them that way these days if you do the regular maintenance and don't abuse it.

You know how many 300K+ vehicles are out there where people don't have OBDC monitors, don't warm up (well maybe in freezing temps) and just do regular but not daily under the hood simple checks? I don't either but I know a bunch just like my sister who I don't think ever checked her own oil.

I have always kept my vehicles till nearly falling apart and the only times I have been stranded was by starters that died (and were giving me warning signs I managed to ignore).... no seeing that problem on an under hood check.

Again, not saying it's a bad idea... but at some point for some vessels/vehicles, some people and some situations....the same check all the time is probably overkill.
 
Sorry if this seems fundamental, but could you explain this? This is a very important point for me. I have never cruised on a trawler, only outboards, which I find to be very noisy. My sailboat is noisy if below when motoring, not bad in the cockpit, so I am curious about the differences motoring between a trawler and sailboat.

On a lot of sailboats, the engine install comes across as a bit of an afterthought in many ways. Poor noise insulation, poor vibration isolation, often standing where a noisy exhaust is very obvious, sometimes poor control placement, etc. So long periods of motoring aren't necessarily pleasant.

On my boat, if we run at fast cruise it's noisy, but not the same as a sailboat. It's not an engine clattering under your feet and shaking the boat, it's just a howl from the engines and a lot of water noise. At slow cruise (more typical trawler speed), things are nice and quiet. We don't have much exhaust noise at that speed and the engines aren't working hard. So there's just a hum from the engines (very quiet at the helm, a bit louder in some parts of the cabin but still nothing objectionable), very little vibration of any kind, and some water noise (mostly from turbulence in the wake behind the transom).

Exact noise levels, etc. vary significantly between boats. But in general, motoring around on anything trawler-like is more pleasant than motoring on a sailboat. The trawler will typically have a much more comfortable helm station for motoring, monitoring instruments, etc.

That said, there's also a very different perception of speed. 7 kts on most powerboats feels fairly slow and relaxed, although it varies a bit between boats. 7 kts under sail feels a whole heck of a lot faster in most cases (although it doesn't get you there any faster).
 
Sorry if this seems fundamental, but could you explain this? This is a very important point for me. I have never cruised on a trawler, only outboards, which I find to be very noisy. My sailboat is noisy if below when motoring, not bad in the cockpit, so I am curious about the differences motoring between a trawler and sailboat.

Typically, larger powerboats such as TF'ers have engine rooms that have at least some sound insulation. The engines are usually slower turning engines compared to the Yanmars installed on most sailboats these days (I run mine at 1750 RPM).

The bare human form-factor is not well suited to weather extremes - a couple patches of hair is all we have. Sitting in an open, exposed cockpit of a sailboat carries a relatively narrow slot of comfortable environmental conditions, especially for long periods of inactivity.

Finally, powerboats usually have comfortable seating at the helm. Armrests, etc. Electronics arrays are easily in view and accessible.

But no doubt, there is an engine drone. A friend's 37-foot boat with a larger Perkins 120hp doesn't have much engine-room insulation and is pretty noisy. At the other end of the spectrum, I remember standing a night watch on a Nordhavn 57 in the tropics with the pilothouse doors open and could hear the dolphins sounding as they swam in the bow wake (Nordhavns have an extraordinarily well designed engine room). I happen to find engine drone soothing vs a sailboat that tends to be a vibrating rattle-trap (larger or well designed sailboats are much better - I would own an Amel, for example).

If I can suggest, since you haven't taken a ride on a trawler, you might want to post your general location and ask if anyone is willing to give a walk-through, perhaps a spin. Bring some sandwiches - many owners love to show off their boats and it doesn't take much of an excuse to cast off docklines for a couple hours.

Good luck -

Peter
 
Typically, larger powerboats such as TF'ers have engine rooms that have at least some sound insulation. The engines are usually slower turning engines compared to the Yanmars installed on most sailboats these days (I run mine at 1750 RPM).

Those are both big factors in engine noise, etc. And on somewhat faster boats, the slow cruise RPM can get even lower. Even with my somewhat high revving gassers (WOT is a bit over 4000 RPM), our 6.5 - 7 kt slow cruise is only turning 1250 - 1300 RPM and under relatively little load which makes it fairly easy to keep the noise down. Fast cruise is a different story though at ~3200 RPM.
 
Sorry if this seems fundamental, but could you explain this? This is a very important point for me. I have never cruised on a trawler, only outboards, which I find to be very noisy. My sailboat is noisy if below when motoring, not bad in the cockpit, so I am curious about the differences motoring between a trawler and sailboat.
This is an excellent question.. One that I could not answer before switching to a Trawler.

That said, lets start with the reason I switched. I switched to trawler because my wife developed mobility issues. Sailboats have large distances to step up or down to access things including getting on and off the boat. In addition, sailboats heel. You add those two things together and you need a fair amount of mobility and agility to safely maneuver around a sailboat.

Comfort is a collection of many things added together to form a package and there is usually not one single issue that does it. The fact that you are heeled and have a lot of high steps adds up to a tiering factor.

Beyond that it seemed all factors considering a sailboat should not have been much different when motoring but, I was wrong. I have always owned towards the sailboat end of the trawlering market. I have never owned anything but a ballasted full displacement trawler so, the jump in comfort should not have been drastic but it was. We also need to put into context that we are talking about going from point A to point B, not out and back to the same port for a day sail because that is where a sailboat excels.
There are a number of reasons that come to mind in comfort differences.
The first comfort factor is that you are seeking less wind with a trawler. Less wind conditions are far more prevalent than ideal sailing conditions or you would not motor so much in a sailboat. Wind is tiring.

Second is dispatch meaning, known time from point A to B. First off in a sailboat you almost always expect wind at some point and seek it. We all know that tacking can add considerable amount of time so we will not count that. We will restrict this comparison to motoring. A sailboat has one issue that can drastically reduce comfort and add considerable time without most people being aware of it. Sailboats have mass centered around the mast and a lack of fullness in the ends of the boat. This induces hobby horsing or, pitching. Pitching can reduce speed drastically at the wave crest, exactly the point of survival so, no one ever looks at the boat speed at that point er, the slower speed is missed. That is what I was referring to as sailboater math. You can count better on how long it will take in a trawler because you don't get knocked back as much. All boats can hobby horse at some point but that is where the trawler stays in port not seeking the wind.

Adding to the stack, Pitch also has a fatigue component because humans do not balance as well fore/aft as they do laterally so you hang on more. Face it, a compromised balance tightens every muscle in your body inducing fatigue.

Trawlers also have you eyes higher above the water. Depth perception is better and reflected sunlight is weaker creating less fatigue and better sense of comfort. The view from a flying bridge often gets your line of sight higher that the surrounding terrain increasing your sense of adventure.

Finally, you can operate the boat in bedroom slippers having more room and the comforts of home.

When you add everything together, your overall experience when traveling is greatly enhanced by the little things that add up to something much larger than any single item. The cognitive mind misses this focus for an evaluation of sail vs trawler because the cognitive mine only focuses on facts and figures around a single issue at a time. The overall addition of factors for your pre trawler evaluation is missed. Comfort is all about perception and less about facts and figures. Especially when it comes to spouses.

A week out of rotator cuff surgery has me bored but also not typing well. I sense I have introduced some confusion here that will open me up to getting hammered but such is life.
 
That's not why you have 300K on your vehicle...it's because they make them that way these days if you do the regular maintenance and don't abuse it.

Well, I abuse the crap out of mine. She's lifted - which is why she has a different suspension - and she's got 33-inch off-road tires that are actually used off-road and not just for crawling mall parking lots.

I put her through the **** and I want her to take me out in the boonies and get me home so I do my best to make sure she's cared for.

Does it guarantee I won't get stuck? Nope - it just happened this past weekend while ON the road.

But I do what I can to make sure those times are few and far between.

You know how many 300K+ vehicles are out there where people don't have OBDC monitors, don't warm up (well maybe in freezing temps) and just do regular but not daily under the hood simple checks? I don't either but I know a bunch just like my sister who I don't think ever checked her own oil.

I'm sure there are many. Just like I'm sure there are many that are no longer on the road but would still be had their owners paid attention to things and gotten to know the systems they depend on.

I have always kept my vehicles till nearly falling apart and the only times I have been stranded was by starters that died (and were giving me warning signs I managed to ignore).... no seeing that problem on an under hood check.

No, but clearly you ignored signs - you said as much. There are many things you can't see - bearings, gears, solenoid valves, cams...etc. But if you take the time to work with and learn the systems, you will know the signs when you hear them or feel them or even smell them. Paying attention is up to the owner.

Again, not saying it's a bad idea... but at some point for some vessels/vehicles, some people and some situations....the same check all the time is probably overkill.

Perhaps it is overkill - but I do it anyway because that's how my brain works.

I know I'm crazy - but it works for me...
 
Depends on usage

First off we travelled at 7kts in our sailboat and now we travel 7kts in our motor yacht. We enjoy the journey.
If your usage is to travel the world or half of it then my thought is a sailboat is the way to go, mainly it’s a cheaper mode of travel.
If your usage is mainly in one area then a motor yacht is the way to go, as mentioned in other posts it’s just more comfortable and more room. Not to mention if travelling half the world its very costly.

Good luck, stay safe and have fun.
 
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