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Old 12-13-2018, 12:26 AM   #41
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I think Gen Z may do even less boating. I am over 62 and have a Gen Z 16 year old son. Here are my thoughts and some of this may apply to millenials: (1) Boat technology has failed to keep up. Most things Z's touch work, and work most of the time with little maintenance. Think cars, i-phones, computers, scooters, even when used work well. Boats don't work like that. I am fascinated by articles I read onTF how many things can go wrong on a boat - to me its fun (I have 1966 Galaxie convertible so I know maintenance). (2) Using boats requires expertise, that's not true for cars, phones, computers, houses, etc. For example, docking a boat is a nightmare unless you are a "seaman with many years". I have 2017 29ft Sea Ray on Hilton Head, with every option Sea Ray offered - but no bow thruster is even available. Docking this thing in a 7 foot tide cycle with wind and perpendicular docks is a challenge. I gave my son the wheel to dock it the other day, and he put a few scuffs on the boat's gel coat ($600 bucks worth!) against the dock - stuff we'll talk about years from now around a few beers and laugh. His interest in boats is not there given this experience. I enjoy the challenge of learning spring line docking adn so does wife, but this generation may expect things to work right from day one - and they will be the customer some day. Just some thoughts.
As a counterpoint to this: newer boats have actually seen quite a bit of technological improvement, to the point operation is really quite simple. I think the result has been a trend towards larger boats. In days past, running a larger powerboat required excellent seamanship and piloting skill. These days, with electronics, joystick control, etc. a child could navigate & dock a 100ft'er with minimal training.

I do see your point about less mechanical inclination in younger generation. I think this comes a lot from trend towards urbanization. I am a millennial. Grew up in a small town, and actually ran a mechanic shop for 5 years. Ended up returning to college and now have a masters in engineering. I'm very mechanically inclined. However, many of my city friends don't even have a drivers license, and couldn't change a tire, nevermind change a headgasket.

So, for younger urbanites who didn't grow up doing their own maintenance on their car/lawnmower/dirt bike/whatever, i think owning a large piece of machinery like a boat would be a bit daunting.

Guess time will tell where boat ownership will go. Definitely a trend towards less ownership and sharing economy. Applies to housing, cars, etc. as well. In fact, many smart people I've spoken to believe car ownership is set to become a thing of the past once autonomous vehicles become the norm. Possible that services like Uber (but autonomous) will make more sense for the vast majority of people.
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Old 12-13-2018, 12:31 AM   #42
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Hi,

Interestingly, here too, and with the market being here, considerably smaller impacts also appear faster. It is sad that 1970-80 boats end up being recycled because they do not have buyers for any price!

Young people are not interested in spending their leisure time like the older generations, hopefully the trend is changing yet, but another big question is the carbon footprint.

Here, big things are planned to ban fossil fuels such as diesel after 20 years and before it priced them so high that it limits consumption. This does not add to the popularity of motor boating here

NBs
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Old 12-13-2018, 01:05 AM   #43
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As a counterpoint to this: newer boats have actually seen quite a bit of technological improvement, to the point operation is really quite simple. I think the result has been a trend towards larger boats. In days past, running a larger powerboat required excellent seamanship and piloting skill. These days, with electronics, joystick control, etc. a child could navigate & dock a 100ft'er with minimal training.

I do see your point about less mechanical inclination in younger generation. I think this comes a lot from trend towards urbanization. I am a millennial. Grew up in a small town, and actually ran a mechanic shop for 5 years. Ended up returning to college and now have a masters in engineering. I'm very mechanically inclined. However, many of my city friends don't even have a drivers license, and couldn't change a tire, nevermind change a headgasket.

So, for younger urbanites who didn't grow up doing their own maintenance on their car/lawnmower/dirt bike/whatever, i think owning a large piece of machinery like a boat would be a bit daunting.

Guess time will tell where boat ownership will go. Definitely a trend towards less ownership and sharing economy. Applies to housing, cars, etc. as well. In fact, many smart people I've spoken to believe car ownership is set to become a thing of the past once autonomous vehicles become the norm. Possible that services like Uber (but autonomous) will make more sense for the vast majority of people.
Even though not Millennials, we fit in what you're describing. While we are both licensed Captains, the technology of today was very helpful. Also, because we've been in the nerdish, technology era, all the technology and navigation and using of instruments and equipment came pretty naturally to us. Docking came easy as we were experienced boaters. As to the mechanical aspect, we have zero desire to learn beyond what is required to safely get home. Not our thing. But it's not something that interests most powerboaters. You'll see a lot of boat owners who hire a captain for long trips. I know two captains headed to the Bahamas on Saturday, one on a Princess and one on a Prestige, both 50 some feet.

Not being mechanically inclined doesn't make it any more daunting to us. Just means we have to hire that work. While with some, the idea of hiring it is negative, to many of us making good money at our own work and hiring people to do work that we lack skills or interest in is just normal. I'm not going to do my own plumbing or HVAC at home. Oh, and no plans to change tires, will call roadside assistance. Allergic to grass so no lawn mowing for me.

I admire those of you with both mechanical skills and enjoyment of that aspect. Just not something I have but doesn't scare me away from boating.

Car ownership is an interesting topic and I don't know where it's going or how I feel about it. I like having my own car and total control over my transportation. I know changes will come and I'll have to adjust. I see it taking effect sooner for local transportation than for long trips. I know also the move to electric will continue and that will make them more attractive as there will be more charging stations. I would have moved to electric sooner if it was more practical. I don't personally think we're close to completely autonomous and non-operator vehicles. Note that trains run on tracks and still require someone to watch and control. I just think driving will become very different, much like using an autopilot.
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Old 12-13-2018, 01:06 AM   #44
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Greetings,
THREAD DRIFT: Mr. R. Very good post (#60). I too am of the mind that there is too much little emphasis on "the trades". Given the high tuition fees it is counter productive for colleges and universities to support or suggest alternate fields of education (apprenticeships)....
Agreed, but did you mean post #34 by Retriever?
It has become popular to pursue the so called "professions" for a career, rather than acquiring a trade. Result: tradesmen in short supply, able to command high rates. I suspect a good self employed tradesman can do very well financially. To grind a personal axe,it is difficult to get boat work done without waiting and delays, due to a lack of skilled personnel. One large well regarded Sydney yard, Noakes, constantly advertises for shipwrights, painters, and apprentices.
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Old 12-13-2018, 01:34 AM   #45
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Spent most of my first six decades of vacation backpacking. Much cheaper than boating, although spent a decade or so fooling with boats. After retirement, the story changed.
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Old 12-13-2018, 02:15 AM   #46
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...Note that trains run on tracks and still require someone to watch and control. ...
Lots of places have trains that run under automatic control (including some city subway systems). If there is a driver on those systems, he is just there in case something fails. Sort of like modern airplanes.
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Old 12-13-2018, 06:40 AM   #47
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The percentage of millennials that make wages that support having a boat is less than babyboomers at the same time in their lives. There were many union trades that are gone now. Unions caused non-union competitors to pay near union wages to keep their employees from leaving for a union job. In addition there were more small businesses doing better during my time than there are now. Houses cost a lot more now, taxes are higher. Less money is available to most millennials.
The 24000000 Illegals working in the USA illegally has lowered wages a lot plus the 67000 factories lost along with 6+ million jobs lost there to outsourcing to China and Mexico has severely limited incomes + the huge number of HB-1 jobs lost to foreigners imported to takeaway American jobs all added up to be a huge negative . In other words "GLOBALIZATION". Of course the mega yacht business is booming for the 1% and the .1% as Globalization is where their wealth comes from.
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Old 12-13-2018, 07:01 AM   #48
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You have hit the proverbial nail on the head...

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There are also way more things vying for their attention. Most of which do not require the time, money, or effort to get proficient at. With today's instant gratification society, why waste time messing around getting a boat ready, launching it, using it, retrieving it, cleaning it, maintaining it, etc. when there are so many other things things that can be done RIGHT NOW! FOMO and all that.

A boat requires a whole lot of hands on time to maintain and keep up. How many millennials do you see who have any interest in maintaining their cars, let alone a boat. When was the last time you actually saw someone waxing their car? Most of them just want to drop their car off somewhere, play with their phone until it is fixed, and wonder why it is taking soooo looooooonnnnng!
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Old 12-13-2018, 07:49 AM   #49
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Wow, I need to pay more attention to the threat these millennials pose to our way of life! Im grateful that there are so many keen observers willing to call out the behavior of an entire generation (of which, not buying boats is only the tip of the iceberg)! What will happen when this laziest, most entitled and least prepared generation in history takes over? Im sure were all living through a crisis no one has ever experienced before!

Our sires' age was worse than our grandsires'.
We, their sons, are more worthless than they;
so in our turn we shall give the world
a progeny yet more corrupt.


Horace, 20 BC
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Old 12-13-2018, 08:25 AM   #50
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Wow, I need to pay more attention to the threat these millennials pose to our way of life! Im grateful that there are so many keen observers willing to call out the behavior of an entire generation (of which, not buying boats is only the tip of the iceberg)! What will happen when this laziest, most entitled and least prepared generation in history takes over? Im sure were all living through a crisis no one has ever experienced before!

Our sires' age was worse than our grandsires'.
We, their sons, are more worthless than they;
so in our turn we shall give the world
a progeny yet more corrupt.
Horace, 20 BC
Yup.

No different than the family farm exodus that began big time in the US a century ago. The cry then was who will feed the people? Lamenting the past will never change.

Worse yet, where have all the golfers gone? Country Clubs are withering away! Who wants a SUV - everybody now it seems. Peak oil cries of a quarter century ago, now we are awash in the stuff. The future of shopping is big indoor malls, oops. Where did Ma Bell go? Yada yada.
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Old 12-13-2018, 08:29 AM   #51
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Lots of places have trains that run under automatic control (including some city subway systems). If there is a driver on those systems, he is just there in case something fails. Sort of like modern airplanes.
Ha! Pilots are there just in case something fails?
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Old 12-13-2018, 08:51 AM   #52
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I have 2 millennial children that seem to be doing fine. One hit the ground running after graduate school and will probably be able to retire at 50 should she want. The other needed an improvement in the economy for a career job to be available. He is doing well now.

Selfishly, I'm ok with millennials not buying boats, less crowded anchorages.

Ted
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Old 12-13-2018, 09:23 AM   #53
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This 43 year old is happy that the media, advertisers, and virtually no one cares about Generation X. Talk about ignored! Yes, we are the ones in many leadership positions now... quietly getting stuff done and keeping things moving while the boomers and millennials throw mud at each other. I remember when Generation X was called the "slacker" generation... nothing changes.

I absolutely hate generational debates. Making broad and ignorant characterizations about millions of people based on when they were born is just silly (advertisers love it though).

Back to boating... The numbers are quite clear that the middle class has eroded. I am amazed that my parents were able to save while owning two cars, a boat, and a house (they also had pensions and two week annual vacations without interruption from cell phones). Life was indeed different then. As a child, I certainly remember that boating was far different--many more younger, middle class people cruised the waterways it seems. Perhaps boating mirrors what has happened to the middle class--lots of small boats, many big obnoxious yachts, and few in between.
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Old 12-13-2018, 09:42 AM   #54
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This 43 year old is happy that the media, advertisers, and virtually no one cares about Generation X. Talk about ignored! Yes, we are the ones in many leadership positions now... quietly getting stuff done and keeping things moving while the boomers and millennials throw mud at each other. I remember when Generation X was called the "slacker" generation... nothing changes.

I absolutely hate generational debates. Making broad and ignorant characterizations about millions of people based on when they were born is just silly (advertisers love it though).

Wheres the like button??? I agree with this so hard.
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Old 12-13-2018, 09:54 AM   #55
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Most millennials are still living at home and use their parent's boat.
And cell plan and car and insurance and internet and cable and house.
Mine don't!
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Old 12-13-2018, 10:00 AM   #56
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Most millennials are still living at home and use their parent's boat.


And cell plan and car and insurance and internet and cable and house.
You've been watching too much Oprah.
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Old 12-13-2018, 10:52 AM   #57
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Whenever I mention a boat for sale to my daughter that looks to be a good buy. Her response is you dont need a boat if you know someone with a boat .
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Old 12-13-2018, 11:59 AM   #58
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Selfishly, I'm ok with millennials not buying boats, less crowded anchorages.
Good point Ted!!
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Old 12-13-2018, 12:09 PM   #59
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Ha! Pilots are there just in case something fails?
Sorry, they're also there to push the buttons on the autopilot.
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Old 12-13-2018, 12:11 PM   #60
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Lots of places have trains that run under automatic control (including some city subway systems). If there is a driver on those systems, he is just there in case something fails. Sort of like modern airplanes.
My point is he is there in case something fails, much as I think will remain on autos for quite a while.
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